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Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

You ought to be clearer then in your posts because that is exactly what I did, respond to your issue regarding Citizens United, buying votes, and the ignorance of the Democrat Electorate

LOL.....I hate to tell you Con.....it isn't votes from the Democrat Electorate that Citizen's United is buying....should tell you something about where the "ignorance" lies....then again....I'm speaking to a man who worships some Democrat named Gruber...so that ought to tell you something there as well. You are easily led.
 
Lots of people disagree, and how does one determine this? If you look to the courts, then taxes are constitutional, but if you look to the courts so were both decisions made last week. Either the Constitutionality of something is determined by the SC or it's not. If it's not, then I don't see why we don't get to pick and choose what we decide is or is not. Like a laundry list. "I don't like it, or disagree with the SC on that issue, so, it must be unconsitutional and I don't have to follow it!!" That's what you suggested, and I'm just playing by the same rules.

Unlike you, I do not look to the courts to determine constitutionality. I look to the actual US Constitution. The courts do not always get it right. It's not unheard of for US Supreme Court decisions to be overturned by future US Supreme Courts. And just look at how the democrats have a stroke if a republican president nominates a justice to the court who does not worship at the alter of Abortion. The Supreme Court decisions on Obamacare simply give Obamacare legal bearing for now. The left is merely hoping that Obamacare will hang on until it gets enough people hooked on the subsidies to eventually scare off major challenges either by way of repeal or by the courts. In the long run, it's undoing will be it's failure to actual address the cost of providing healthcare. I don't see the premiums and deductables coming down at any point as long as the mandates exist. As long as the health insurance providers have a captive customer base, they have no incentive to lower the rates. They no longer have to compete for customers. At some point, the continued increases in rates and deductibles will boil over and obamacare will become public enemy number one......even with the political left.
 
In the long run, it's undoing will be it's failure to actual address the cost of providing healthcare.

On the contrary, its most exciting features and greatest long-term potential lie in what it's already doing to address the cost of providing health care.
 
I repeat. The left's suggestion that anyone at all was denied healthcare is an "outright bald face lie". There was no question that everyone who needed treatment received treatment and also had options outside of the ER. And the "less cost" chant is also misleading. The one and only reason for less overall spending on healthcare is that millions of the insured now stuck with massively expensive premiums and massively high deductibles can no longer afford to take advantage of their health insurance. One of obamacare's biggest proponents Ezekial Emannuel was a guest on CSPAN this morning. And after getting beseiged with callers (even one democrat) complaining to him about the high premiums and average deductibles of $6000.00, he so much as admitted that obamacare at this time operates like a very expensive catastrophic health insurance policy and that needed to be fixed. He attempted to put lipstick on it, but few were buying it. Obamacare is an unmitigated failure and a serious albatross around the necks of the democrat party. The sooner you work that out, the better for your credibility.

I said people lacking care causes them to wait until things are an emergency, when the problems are much more expensive to fix.

You responded by saying that was a lie because they were able to get emergency care.

Do you see the problem in your reasoning?
 
Did the Democrats lose control of the entire Congress in 2014? You can always put lipstick on a pig but that doesn't change reality.

What I find interesting is how you and others judge everyone else by your own biases and standards. Healthcare costs for the uninsured are paid for by the hospitals and the people of the state making it a state program not a federal one no matter how many times you say it. You have been indoctrinated and have such passion for this issue meaning that liberal elite have duped you no matter how many times you deny it or run from it.

Healthcare costs for the uninsured were paid for by the insured.
The people with health insurance were already paying for those without.
The average U.S. family and their employers paid an extra $1,017 in health care premiums last year to compensate for the uninsured, according to a study to be released Thursday by an advocacy group for health care consumers.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2009-05-28-hiddentax_N.htm

Study: Insured pay 'hidden tax' for uninsured health care - USATODAY.com
 
LOL.....I hate to tell you Con.....it isn't votes from the Democrat Electorate that Citizen's United is buying....should tell you something about where the "ignorance" lies....then again....I'm speaking to a man who worships some Democrat named Gruber...so that ought to tell you something there as well. You are easily led.

You mean this Gruber?

Editor says he owes GOP sources

The seagull is back!!
 
OK, so the great idea from the right wing is to go back to the incredibly flawed system that cost double the rest of the world and left 10s of million UNinsured, and 10s of millions more with inadequate insurance that would fail as soon as they actually needed actual insurance, and cost double the rest of the world..... That's why I don't vote for the GOP anymore.

You are conveniantly leaving out that tens of millions since obamacare has been enacted can no longer afford to use the insurance they do have, due to massively high premiums and massively high deductibles. Otherwise, you are making it up as you go along. The democrats and Obama did not seriously attempt to work with republicans on coming up with common sense healthcare reform that both sides could live with. Ezekial on CSPAN this morning attempted to dodge that point by pointing out that they did talk to Republican Susan Collins. However attempting to pick off a republican moderate or two for the sake of political cover is not working with republicans. They basically shut the republicans out of the debate...in effect telling them: "Our way or the highway". That's why no republicans voted for it. Therefore, your suggestion that the republicans did not favor reform is false. The republicans had suggestions...the democrats just did not want to hear them. They decided to go it alone. That was an enormous political risk and it has backfired on them. It's the biggest single reason that the republicans now control the house and the senate....as well as most legislatures. That's why I am so amused that the left still defends obamacare as if it is the best thing to come along since sliced cheese.
 
Healthcare costs for the uninsured were paid for by the insured.
The people with health insurance were already paying for those without.


Study: Insured pay 'hidden tax' for uninsured health care - USATODAY.com

Study: Insured pay 'hidden tax' for uninsured health care - USATODAY.com

Amazing, still buying the rhetoric. You really have been indoctrinated into believing the Democrat lies. This isn't about healthcare this is about buying votes. Healthcare remains a personal responsibility and rests with the states to make any changes. You however want to entrust a Federal bureaucracy that has created an 18.2 trillion dollar debt.
 
GOP appointees tend to become seduced by the power of government--Liberals were already seduced when they were appointed

The Supreme Court Justices live in kind of a country club atmospere in Washington DC. Too many of them are seduced into political correctness.
 
Not sure....I don't worship the guy....but what I do know is that your prior post speaks loudly about the ignorant electorate that Citizen's United is hoping to cultivate.

Apparently the Obama Administration does or did before he said what the Administration believes but refuses to say themselves. Glad to see you back seagull
 
I don't buy your numbers. Rates have risen more slowly, but deductible have grown. And deductibles are the real killer

In effect, the massively high deductibles have turned health insurance into a massively costly catastrophic health insurance. And I do not take the increases in premiums lightly either. My premium was going from $250 a month to $678.15 per month. That's higher then my home mortgage payments. Health insurance should not be more costly then buying a house.
 
On the contrary, its most exciting features and greatest long-term potential lie in what it's already doing to address the cost of providing health care.

Which is absolutely nothing. The actual cost of providing healthcare is not decreasing,. It is increasing.
 
Which is absolutely nothing. The actual cost of providing healthcare is not decreasing,. It is increasing.

Obviously we don't get it, the fact that deductibles are increasing rapidly are irrelevant to liberals most of whom really aren't involved with Obamacare but judge everyone else by their own beliefs which come from their indoctrination into the liberal ideology. You see, with liberals it is always someone else's fault for poor personal choices and they always think with their hearts instead of their brain.
 
I repeat. The left's suggestion that anyone at all was denied healthcare is an "outright bald face lie". There was no question that everyone who needed treatment received treatment and also had options outside of the ER. And the "less cost" chant is also misleading. The one and only reason for less overall spending on healthcare is that millions of the insured now stuck with massively expensive premiums and massively high deductibles can no longer afford to take advantage of their health insurance. One of obamacare's biggest proponents Ezekial Emannuel was a guest on CSPAN this morning. And after getting beseiged with callers (even one democrat) complaining to him about the high premiums and average deductibles of $6000.00, he so much as admitted that obamacare at this time operates like a very expensive catastrophic health insurance policy and that needed to be fixed. He attempted to put lipstick on it, but few were buying it. Obamacare is an unmitigated failure and a serious albatross around the necks of the democrat party. The sooner you work that out, the better for your credibility.

That just isn't true. I won't even bother to explain, except to say that you just don't actually have a clue what the barriers to care are faced by the uninsured. The "care" they got for heart disease, for example, is generally they get treated after they have a heart attack, if the heart attack doesn't kill them. They might be treated for cancer after it's spread to their bones and is hopeless and then they get pain killers. The rest of us might have the cancer caught by a colonoscopy that no poor person gets because they can't afford that. Etc.

The whole "the poor got treated" is just an elaborate attempt to fool yourself that there is no harm to anyone with a system that leaves 40 million uninsured. It's not true, so if you want to support such a system, the least you can do is recognize that it causes the premature death of many thousands each year, but that the alternatives are worse.
 
That just isn't true. I won't even bother to explain, except to say that you just don't actually have a clue what the barriers to care are faced by the uninsured. The "care" they got for heart disease, for example, is generally they get treated after they have a heart attack, if the heart attack doesn't kill them. They might be treated for cancer after it's spread to their bones and is hopeless and then they get pain killers. The rest of us might have the cancer caught by a colonoscopy that no poor person gets because they can't afford that. Etc.

The whole "the poor got treated" is just an elaborate attempt to fool yourself that there is no harm to anyone with a system that leaves 40 million uninsured. It's not true, so if you want to support such a system, the least you can do is recognize that it causes the premature death of many thousands each year, but that the alternatives are worse.

You don't get it because you think only with your heart. Do you believe that the poor are going to take advantage of preventative healthcare screening? What is next mandatory healthy meals and exercise? Where does personal responsibility rest in your world? Premature death occurs also because people abuse their bodies and you believe that having the taxpayers funding ACA is going to change that?
 
Its finally dawned on me.... The most vehement opponents of the ACA are also the people who understand the least about our healthcare delivery system in the U.S.

It's a direct correlation!
 
In effect, the massively high deductibles have turned health insurance into a massively costly catastrophic health insurance. And I do not take the increases in premiums lightly either. My premium was going from $250 a month to $678.15 per month. That's higher then my home mortgage payments. Health insurance should not be more costly then buying a house.
You complain about premiums and deductibles, but no doubt are against single payer UHC which would remove these.
 
Its finally dawned on me.... The most vehement opponents of the ACA are also the people who understand the least about our healthcare delivery system in the U.S.

It's a direct correlation!

And those who were gullible enough to believe the lies and broken promises of this President and his party are the one's who are informed ?

Its " affordable healthcare " with rising cost straight from the Democrat Party.
 
You don't get it because you think only with your heart. Do you believe that the poor are going to take advantage of preventative healthcare screening?

Why not? Some won't, obviously, but many that have insurance don't go either. At one point in my life I probably went a decade without seeing a doctor for anything other than an acute illness. Is there any evidence that the "poor" in, say, Canada or Germany or any other country with universal coverage don't go see their primary care doctor, or that they don't get preventive care?

What is next mandatory healthy meals and exercise? Where does personal responsibility rest in your world? Premature death occurs also because people abuse their bodies and you believe that having the taxpayers funding ACA is going to change that?

If you can't afford healthcare, it's hard to be personally responsible with healthcare because the exam is expensive and if there is an issue, they can't afford the treatment. That's why they wait till it's acute and go to the ER, etc.

And, yes, premature death does happen because we abuse our health. About 1/3 of the residents in my state are obese. I know lots of them with insurance. Lots more smoke, drink to excess and haven't exercised in decades and lots of them have insurance. So what is your point? One way or another, you're paying for them through YOUR premiums.
 
That just isn't true. I won't even bother to explain, except to say that you just don't actually have a clue what the barriers to care are faced by the uninsured. The "care" they got for heart disease, for example, is generally they get treated after they have a heart attack, if the heart attack doesn't kill them. They might be treated for cancer after it's spread to their bones and is hopeless and then they get pain killers. The rest of us might have the cancer caught by a colonoscopy that no poor person gets because they can't afford that. Etc.

I suspect that I understand much more then you do. I will give you a personal example. Prior to Obamacare, I had two aunts who were diagnosed with breast cancer fairly close to the same time. One was well off and had good insurance. The other had no insurance. They were both treated at the same cancer clinic which was one of the best in the region. They both received excellent follow up care and had similar outcomes. They often ended up going for chemotherapy treatments at the same time. The only difference was how they were billed. The well off aunt presented her health insurance and paid her copayments. The other was billed based on ability to pay. Patients without insurance are not told...."Okay we have stabablized you...now get lost." They are told to come back for follow up treatments or see their own doctor if they have one.

The whole "the poor got treated" is just an elaborate attempt to fool yourself that there is no harm to anyone with a system that leaves 40 million uninsured. It's not true, so if you want to support such a system, the least you can do is recognize that it causes the premature death of many thousands each year, but that the alternatives are worse.

Not only do the poor get treated, the 40 million hardcore uninsured chant is and always has been a leftwing myth. To get to that number they had to add all categories together and present it without breakdowns.
 
You complain about premiums and deductibles, but no doubt are against single payer UHC which would remove these.

The elephant in the room is that a single payer system would also remove a large portion of healthcare....by way of rationing all but the most routine treatments. Yes I am against a single payer system. As bad as obamacare is....single payer would be even worse.
 
JasperL;1064765358]Why not? Some won't, obviously, but many that have insurance don't go either. At one point in my life I probably went a decade without seeing a doctor for anything other than an acute illness. Is there any evidence that the "poor" in, say, Canada or Germany or any other country with universal coverage don't go see their primary care doctor, or that they don't get preventive care?

What you have done and supported is a Federally run and Administered healthcare program by a govt that has created an 18.2 trillion dollar debt. That could have been easily done if in great demand at the state level. What the Democrats did was see an opportunity to buy votes. They couldn't care less about healthcare like always, just the slush fund to spend.



If you can't afford healthcare, it's hard to be personally responsible with healthcare because the exam is expensive and if there is an issue, they can't afford the treatment. That's why they wait till it's acute and go to the ER, etc.

If you cannot fund your own healthcare program why should others do it for you? As has been stated here costs aren't going down because deductibles are going up. This is another indoctrination effort on the part of the left and a lot of good people have been fooled. Next step totally socialized medicine and with it comes the loss of your freedoms and personal choice.

And, yes, premature death does happen because we abuse our health. About 1/3 of the residents in my state are obese. I know lots of them with insurance. Lots more smoke, drink to excess and haven't exercised in decades and lots of them have insurance. So what is your point? One way or another, you're paying for them through YOUR premiums.

I may be paying for them but not at the cost currently being promoted. As stated this is a state program not a federal one but the left has you convinced they can do it better. When did that ever happen? When did the Federal govt. run anything efficiently and at what cost? When deductibles go up does that increase your costs of healthcare above the premium prices?
 
Yes......African Americans again came out enmasse to vote for Obama. I get it. However the democrats did not regain the house of reps and lost seats in the Senate. It would have been worse, howerver none of the real harmful mandates had yet hit. Obama had delayed them until after the election.

Why else would the Dem's have to start a race war? Motivate their African-American voting block. Failing that, and they are done for.
 
If you cannot fund your own healthcare program why should others do it for you?
So just to be clear, you do not, have not, will not, purchase insurance, med or auto.....since insurance is the creation of risk pools where you do not actually fund in total your own costs.
 
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