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Freddie Gray autopsy report leaked. Says he fell when the van stopped.

And?
1. That doesn't refute anything I have said.
2. Homicide doesn't mean criminal. Or didn't you know that?

Homicide: the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another. Murder.

It sounds criminal to me.
 
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Expert disagrees with 'homicide' conclusion in Gray's death

... Asked about the Maryland medical examiner's conclusion that Freddie Gray's death from injuries sustained in police custody was a homicide, Dr. Vincent DiMaio, one of the nation's leading forensic pathologists, said: "I'd have to respectfully disagree, and I know a number of other medical examiners do. It would be more appropriate to have classified this case as either an accident or 'undetermined,' because the way it's being called a homicide is, in a way, something that a jury has to decide. A medical examiner is not a lawyer, is not a jury. … They're saying [Gray's death] was not an unforeseen event. That's something for a jury to decide, not the doctor to decide."​

Expert disagrees with ‘homicide’ conclusion in Gray's death - Baltimore Sun

Of course he does. It was obvious from what she stated.
 
But that guy didn't get on until the third stop so he wouldn't know what kind of ride Gray had been receiving.

And when they arrived at the prisoner intake Allen states he heard a female officer say "Well, you know, we gave him a run for his money -- he's not breathing."

I don't know whether he is telling the truth but I doubt the defense is going to want to introduce anything this guy said because that will just open the door to rest of the stuff he said.

It will be interesting to see play out.

The part that bothers me about this case, Gray asked for medical help repeatedly. I don't think LE is trained to triage a injury or medical condition and they should have taken him to the hospital. We also don't know when the spine was severed and the amount of suffering he did before he became unconscious, which is a state of shock. I would speculate he suffered like a animal if the spine was severed in the beginning of the 40 minute van ride. It was as if they did not care. Freddie Gray was arrested for a pocket knife, he did not open or draw and treated like garbage plus lost his life, but the shooter in South Carolina, who viciously murdered people in a church is being treated like a human being.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...die-gray-arrest-documents-20150420-story.html
 
Homicide: the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another. Murder.

It sounds criminal to me.

A medical examiner doesn't make the determination of what is and is not lawful.

Anyone with half a brain can figure that out.
 
Murder and manslaughter. Is either one non-criminal?¿
:doh
The argument was over you making a false definitive statement in regards to me pointing out that the designation homicide (in context of what we are speaking about | the Autopsy report) doesn't mean criminal.
You were simply wrong and wrong for challenging what I said.
 
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Gray asked for medical help repeatedly.
Wut? How many times?


We also don't know when the spine was severed
Wut? The spine was severed? You really need to read the autopsy report.


and the amount of suffering he did before he became unconscious, which is a state of shock.
Wut? What suffering are you talking about.


I would speculate he suffered like a animal if the spine was severed in the beginning of the 40 minute van ride. It was as if they did not care. Freddie Gray was arrested for a pocket knife, he did not open or draw and treated like garbage plus lost his life, but the shooter in South Carolina, who viciously murdered people in a church is being treated like a human being.
All hyperbolic biased based nonsense.

And stop comparing unlike circumstances.
iah6mN9.jpg




The part that bothers me about this case,
You seem to be bothered by a lot of make believe.
 
:doh
The argument was over you making a false definitive statement in regards to me pointing out that the designation homicide (in context of what we are speaking about | the Autopsy report) doesn't mean criminal.
You were simply wrong and wrong for challenging what I said.

Homicide in the autopsy report makes me think of foul play.

What do you think Watson?

Did Mr. Gray commit suicide in the van?
 
Yeah, if you're in the back of a van and it brakes hard, that's a guaranteed death sentence unless you're wearing a seatbelt. That's why school busses all have seat belts....kids would be dropping like flies

School buses don't handcuff you, leaving you unable to brace or protect yourself, and then deliberately slam the brakes to throw you around.

The police took deliberate action which caused him to die.
 
Homicide in the autopsy report makes me think of foul play.

What do you think Watson?
I already know she is wrong.
Nothing suggests killing at the hands of a another.

If this goes to trial, her opinion really isn't going to matter to an honest juror.

So again.
Expert disagrees with 'homicide' conclusion in Gray's death

... Asked about the Maryland medical examiner's conclusion that Freddie Gray's death from injuries sustained in police custody was a homicide, Dr. Vincent DiMaio, one of the nation's leading forensic pathologists, said: "I'd have to respectfully disagree, and I know a number of other medical examiners do. It would be more appropriate to have classified this case as either an accident or 'undetermined,' because the way it's being called a homicide is, in a way, something that a jury has to decide. A medical examiner is not a lawyer, is not a jury. … They're saying [Gray's death] was not an unforeseen event. That's something for a jury to decide, not the doctor to decide."​

Expert disagrees with ‘homicide’ conclusion in Gray's death - Baltimore Sun
 
Homicide in the autopsy report makes me think of foul play.
Something tells me that is exactly why they put it there..... And its obvious that they have been called out on it. Or do you not think that a medical examiner would stoop so low as to be involved in "social justice" or political opportunism?



Did Mr. Gray commit suicide in the van?
I don't know what happened in the van...... You don't know what happened in the van...... The Medical Examiner doesn't know what happened in the van.....And by the looks of it from her flaunting herself to whatever magazine and star opportunity she can get her hands on.. Prosecutor Mosby doesn't care what happened in the van.
 
School buses don't handcuff you, leaving you unable to brace or protect yourself, and then deliberately slam the brakes to throw you around.

The police took deliberate action which caused him to die.

Were you there? And also who cares.
 
Wut? How many times?


Wut? The spine was severed? You really need to read the autopsy report.


Wut? What suffering are you talking about.


All hyperbolic biased based nonsense.

And stop comparing unlike circumstances.
iah6mN9.jpg




You seem to be bothered by a lot of make believe.

You should read the article posted...it said repeatedly and the cops were caught making fun of him. Do you not feel that Freddie Gray was a human being? Spinal injuries hurt..period. I should know, I see enough of them. You seem callous to humanity. Most of the LE that I know would never treat a prisoner this way...most don't and are very professional and polite and do not support the Baltimore police on what happened here.
 
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You should read the article posted...it said repeatedly and the cops were caught making fun of him. Do you not feel that Freddie Gray was a human being? Spinal injuries hurt..period. I should know, I see enough of them. You seem callous to humanity.
:doh
Did you not read the OP and the information linked?
:lamo
Your article was from over two months ago.

Get up to speed. It is why I said you should read the autopsy report.

As for the spinal injury. You have no idea if he suffered or not.
The autopsy doesn't seem to indicate an injury that would have caused any prolonged suffering but instead a quick and immediate loss of consciousness.

He was non-responsive at the final stop, whereas at the forth stop the narrative claims he was "minimally responsive". Which does not mean he was unable to respond, and does not deserve an automatic assumption that he was injured prior to that stop.

You can assume all you want that he was injured before the forth stop, but had he been paralyzed as claimed, it doesn't seem like the Officer would have been able to set him on the seat at the forth stop as the narrative states.


and the cops were caught making fun of him.
Wut? Quote it.
 
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:doh
Did you not read the OP and the information linked?
:lamo
Your article was from over two months ago.

Get up to speed. It is why I said you should read the autopsy report.

As for the spinal injury. You have no idea if he suffered or not.
The autopsy doesn't seem to indicate an injury that would have caused any prolonged suffering but instead a quick and immediate loss of consciousness.

He was non-responsive at the final stop, whereas at the forth stop the narrative claims he was "minimally responsive". Which does not mean he was unable to respond, and does not deserve an automatic assumption that he was injured prior to that stop.

You can assume all you want that he was injured before the forth stop, but had he been paralyzed as claimed, it doesn't seem like the Officer would have been able to set him on the seat at the forth stop as the narrative states.


Wut? Quote it.

So what if the article was two months old...it stated that Gray ask for medical treatment repeatedly...clearly stated. I did not state that Gray was injured before he was placed in the van...tho the video sure looks like it. I have been a nurse for almost 20 years...I don't need a article to tell me a spinal injury this severe would not cause pain. It is absurd to even state that. The officers statements after the arrived at the station...see post #9. You have dehumanized this person...a human being. The folks who believe that person could bash their head to the point of the severity of this injury are ignorant. No one could or would do that. You are blind to humanity, looking to argue as it shows by your questions. I will look up the entire autopsy later when I get home from work.
 
The other prisoner in the back of the van claimed that it was not a " rough ride ".

It was murder, I tell ya. Cold blooded, calculated, premeditated murder.
 
Were you there? And also who cares.

Wait. "The police took deliberate action which caused him to die," and your response is who cares?

Really?
 
Wait. "The police took deliberate action which caused him to die," and your response is who cares?

Really?
I do believe their response was.. "You were there?"
 
Wait. "The police took deliberate action which caused him to die," and your response is who cares?

Really?

I'm sure they didn't. But who cares about this Freddy Gray stuff, that was so last month.
 
So what if the article was two months old...it stated that Gray ask for medical treatment repeatedly...clearly stated.
Wtf do you mean "So what"?
Do you really not understand that information can change?


I did not state that Gray was injured before he was placed in the van...tho the video sure looks like it.
Wut? I never said anything about before being placed in the van.
But you are again showing your ignorance of the topic.
He was clearly shown in the video (even the narrative in the autopsy mentions it) stranding on his own on the bumper and then ducking to get into the van.


I have been a nurse for almost 20 years...I don't need a article to tell me a spinal injury this severe would not cause pain. It is absurd to even state that.
No, your assumption is what is absurd. You have no idea if he experience any pain at all.
And again, if it was as sudden and immediate as describe with paralyzation and unconsciousness, you are making up things to believe.
And even if someone else suffered a similar injury experienced excruciating pain, it doesn't mean he did.


The officers statements after the arrived at the station...see post #9.
:lamo
1. If said, a statement of fact is not making fun of someone.
2. At the time the witness made this statement, he had already lost credibility.


You have dehumanized this person...a human being.
Wrong. I have done no such thing at any point.


The folks who believe that person could bash their head to the point of the severity of this injury are ignorant.
The ignorance is on your side.
1. No one could or would do that? As shown in a previous thread, a man slammed his own head into a wall of an isolation cell and broke his own neck and is now a quadriplegic. So it is possible. So that would be your ignorance.
2. No one has said he did that here. Though losing his balance while attempting to slam his head certainly could have caused the injury as described. Again your ignorance.
3. Simply slipping and falling while up or attempting to get up, could have caused the injury. Again. your ignorance.


You are blind to humanity,
:doh
Spare me your bs, as you know not of what you speak.


looking to argue as it shows by your questions.
This is a debate site. Or did you not know that?
And I seriously doubt that expecting others to be informed of the topic they wish to debate is somehow irrelevant.


I will look up the entire autopsy later when I get home from work.
Good? Keep in mind that she assumes a lot in her narrative and that there are those more qualified than her pointing out the flaw in her opinion.
 
Imagine that. The Police didn't do anything to cause Gray's death.

Guess all the money everyone was anticipating going to Gray's family is going to end up with the cops who were falsely accused (when they end up suing the city)

Who would have seen that coming?
 
Did you read the next sentence, by any chance?

I did....

Im still waiting for you to admit you weren't there and therefore can't support your statement in the first place.

His "I don't care" was mocking you.
 
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