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NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

spare me the BS. you cannot speak for most churchgoers so cut the crap. If someone packing is going to cause you psychiatric issues so be it. but don't speak for others.

Goodness, I guess you don't have an actual argument so resort to ad hominems. And you've been speaking for others this entire thread, several times saying you don't believe some of us even HOLD different opinions than you do.

and GOD help you if one day you leave your alleged gun at home and some guy comes walking in your church and decides to pull a Loughner on the congregation

"Alleged gun" - nice! Would you like me to list them for you and provide pictures?

And if we're going to go down the dishonest hack argument route, GOD help YOU when you get in a car wreck without 4 point restraints and a helmet on. Because I'm sure that driving to church is 1,000s of times riskier than "a Loughner" in any church.

BTW, we had "a Loughner" in my area. Crazy right winger shot up the local Unitarian Church, liberals you know.... You can find a wiki article about it if you want. What saved the congregation from more killing was some brave members tackling him and restraining him. No guns needed.
 
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no it started with an incredible idiot in the White House wanting to use this massacre to push his failed jihad against the NRA and gun owners again.

Reread the title of this thread and the OP. "NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths."
 
What states would those be?

The three northern New England States, Vermont, NH, and Maine. Also VT allows concealed carry with no license and Maine passed a bill to allow CC with no license which only needs to be reconciled with the budget before it becomes law, NH passed a similar law but their governor plans to veto

EDIT FOR SOURCE

US CENSUS BUREAU CRIME TOTALS
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0308.pdf

You have to look at each states data, but the three lowest are the ones I said
 
You do not know if it would have made a dammed difference.

I know these nine people are dead. As the NRA board member so indelicately noted, they might be alive today if someone had used a weapon to defend them.

And your point is- Weapons carried everywhere?

If a police force and army armed with fully-automatic SIG assault rifles is good enough for the Pope at the Vatican, it should be good enough for everyone else, but practical people should take whatever they can get.

Do not take this personally – The rest of the developed world just does not get America’s love affair with weapons.

In the rest of the developed world, only the rich, politicians, and other notable dignitaries are worthy of the protection offered by firearms, while the peons are left to fend for themselves.
 
Goodness, I guess you don't have an actual argument so resort to ad hominems. And you've been speaking for others this entire thread, several times saying you don't believe some of us even HOLD different opinions than you do.



"Alleged gun" - nice! Would you like me to list them for you and provide pictures?

And if we're going to go down the dishonest hack argument route, GOD help YOU when you get in a car wreck without 4 point restraints and a helmet on. Because I'm sure that driving to church is 1,000s of times riskier than "a Loughner" in any church.

what is there to argue against-you are afraid of people having a gun in a church even if they are properly licensed and you claim such people will deteriorate the "worship experience" of other church goers

both of your points are idiotic. The best you can say is that you will be upset if you found out a worshipper next to you is packing.

there is NO risk to you from a licensed individual having a gun that comes close to outweighing what will happen if your church is attacked. and remember-there are almost no cases of CCW gun bearers pulling out a gun and shooting UNLESS there is an attack
 
no it started with an incredible idiot in the White House wanting to use this massacre to push his failed jihad against the NRA and gun owners again.
Somebody needs to jiihad against the NRA, if not him then who?
 
Somebody needs to jiihad against the NRA, if not him then who?

thanks for again proving my point. its all about you lefties hating the NRA and its support of freedom loving candidate

it has nothing to do about "crime control
 
The NRA is the most vile and disgusting organization in this country. Who in the hell wants to carry a gun to worship in church and how could anyone suggest that. They use every tragic event to promote their insane ideology. This group appeals to militia idiots and skin heads.

You don't worship the gun in the church, you worship whatever it is you were going to worship... only this way you have some means to protect yourself should some random asshat who doesn't belong there and has some insane ax to grind try to kill you.

"Gun free zones" would only work if they contained powerful magical abjurations that would literally prevent firearms from entering the area. Without them, they just mean that the folks who respect that authority will comply and those who want to do harm will know they can do such harm without risking similar danger to themselves.
 
Whup some ass probably, like he did on them moneychangers. :D



You seriously think Jesus wants me to sit there and let innocents be slaughtered, rather than fire a gun in a church?

He'd be ashamed if I had the means and declined to use it.







If you're young or have a short memory, that's not my problem. There's been shootings and hate crime attacks in a good many churches over the past 50 years. Quite a good many.


Expect that to stay as bad or get worse... until they start getting shot in the act before racking up a MSNBC-worthy body count...

Up to you. To me, Jesus seems like the "turn the other cheek" type. When Christ was being arrested, Peter drew a weapon, and Jesus rebuked him for it.

Live by the gun, die by the gun.
 
no what you are talking about is a guestimation what a person or deity who may or may not have existed might have theoretically believed. I am basing my position on facts, and current events

if you believe in God that God exists in the mall, the spa, the car lot or a church. why a church is any different it escapes me. A person competent to carry a gun in a mall is equally competent in a church. That he might offend some people matters not to me.


I get that you're not particularly religious, and that's your freedom and right to think that way. If you're not a churchgoer, though, I don't get why you're bothering to post on this topic or have this debate.

Clearly people are in church because they are Christian, and therefore Christian theology is germane to any discussion about what is or isn't appropriate to bring to a church.

People are religious for a variety of reasons. It gives people hope, a sense of purpose, etc. While I respect your right to not be religious, you should also try to be more respectful of other people's religious tendencies and of their right to worship as they see fit.
 
I get that you're not particularly religious, and that's your freedom and right to think that way. If you're not a churchgoer, though, I don't get why you're bothering to post on this topic or have this debate.

Clearly people are in church because they are Christian, and therefore Christian theology is germane to any discussion about what is or isn't appropriate to bring to a church.

People are religious for a variety of reasons. It gives people hope, a sense of purpose, etc. While I respect your right to not be religious, you should also try to be more respectful of other people's religious tendencies and of their right to worship as they see fit.

I concede that each church should decide if its going to allow guns. however, if a church does not and a massacre takes place, the fault is still that of the shooter but the decision can be damned as stupid
 
what is there to argue against-you are afraid of people having a gun in a church even if they are properly licensed and you claim such people will deteriorate the "worship experience" of other church goers

You're not making honest arguments, and you're unwillingness to even ACKNOWLEDGE different opinions is staggering.

Not all churches allow guns. I don't need to claim that guns deteriorate the worship experience for those churches because the church leadership guided by the congregation has made that decision and the decision is proof of the FACT that guns are in their view a negative to the broader purpose of a worship service.

both of your points are idiotic. The best you can say is that you will be upset if you found out a worshipper next to you is packing.

Not exactly, but OK. And if he's not my risk goes up ZERO percent. So why allow it in church? You've not even tried to make a rational case for it.

there is NO risk to you from a licensed individual having a gun that comes close to outweighing what will happen if your church is attacked. and remember-there are almost no cases of CCW gun bearers pulling out a gun and shooting UNLESS there is an attack

You're making an objective claim, so please back that claim up with some data or evidence.

And I'm not arguing that the person carrying a Glock to my church is a significant risk to me. It's not. It's almost surely higher than the risk of a church attack by "a Loughner" but both are negligible, trivial, too small to actually matter, and driving to church is the by FAR the most risky thing I'll have done that day no matter how many or no people carry a Glock to worship and to accept communion.

What I've said is it changes the experience in a negative way, and that's just a statement of fact for ME. I've seen too many accidental discharges of weapons to trust that strangers carrying them know what they're doing and I don't want to have to worry if your wife leaves her purse on the pew while she's standing and singing the hymn that there is or isn't a gun in there the kids can pull out and shoot me with.
 
tl dr. how many crimes have been committed by parishioners legally packing
 
I concede that each church should decide if its going to allow guns. however, if a church does not and a massacre takes place, the fault is still that of the shooter but the decision can be damned as stupid

Similarly, when someone dies in a car accident without a 4 point restraint and a helmet on, we can damn THEM as stupid. Good point!
 
Similarly, when someone dies in a car accident without a 4 point restraint and a helmet on, we can damn THEM as stupid. Good point!

that's just stupid and you know it
 
tl dr. how many crimes have been committed by parishioners legally packing

If you'd read the response, you'd know I don't claim that "crimes committed by parishioners" is my concern.

But since you aren't going to read them, I'll quit bothering.
 
thanks for again proving my point. its all about you lefties hating the NRA and its support of freedom loving candidate

it has nothing to do about "crime control

I have no idea what candidate the NRA is supporting, so if that proves how much I hate them...okie dokie....look out NRA. But let me take a wild guess....Rick Perry?

A heinous crime was committed and the next day the president mentioned crime control in a speech. My gawd, what is the world coming to when the leader of the free world isn't allowed to speak about the security of the US after a terrorist attack?
 
that's just stupid and you know it

Why? Explain that referring to some objective analysis you've done on the relative risks. You can't. Because if you did look at the relative risks, you'd wear a Dale Jr. replica helmet driving TO church and leave your trusty Glock at home.
 
I have no idea what candidate the NRA is supporting, so if that proves how much I hate them...okie dokie....look out NRA. But let me take a wild guess....Rick Perry?

A heinous crime was committed and the next day the president mentioned crime control in a speech. My gawd, what is the world coming to when the leader of the free world isn't allowed to speak about the security of the US after a terrorist attack?

Obama is a turd who wants to bash gun owners at every chance he gets
 
Obama is a turd who wants to bash gun owners at every chance he gets

He knew some of the victims personally.


So what freedum lubbing candidate is the NRA supporting?
 
Why? Explain that referring to some objective analysis you've done on the relative risks. You can't. Because if you did look at the relative risks, you'd wear a Dale Jr. replica helmet driving TO church and leave your trusty Glock at home.

I carry a SIG or a SW.

a helmet interferes with your ability to see what is going on in a car. It cuts down on your vision. so your suggestion is moronic. I don't have any detrimental effects from packing a gun to my ability to survive an attack
 
He knew some of the victims personally.

so what, I knew some of the people who were killed in 9-1-1 and the Lockerbie Bombing. I didn't call for banning airplanes
 
so what, I knew some of the people who were killed in 9-1-1 and the Lockerbie Bombing. I didn't call for banning airplanes
Box cutters, fingernail clippers, scissors, lighters, etc were banned instead. And guess what, no one has crashed a jumbo airliner into a tall building since.

(knock on wood)
 
Box cutters, fingernail clippers, lighters, etc were banned instead. And guess what, no one has crashed a jumbo airliner into a tall building since.

uh that is because the few times someone tried to do something stupid in the USA the passengers beat the living crap out of him. The remain passive and comply with the hijacker protocol went out the window

BTW those bans really worked on all those jihadi pilots who have taken out several hundred in the last couple of years hasn't it
 
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