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NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

Nursmate said:
You are getting more idiotic as you post...here you go...your hero!! Now put on Cat Scratch Fever and start dancing...LOL

Ted Nugent: 'More guns equals less crime' - CNN.com
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you obviously are unaware of my prior comments about "terrible ted"

you are in no position to claim anyone else's posts are idiotic when your solution to an active killer coming to kill is to tell him to go home

and each one of your posts further proves that your charade about being a gun owners is nonsense.
 
haymarket said:
I agree that these open carry zealots are doing no favors to gun owners in general.
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Exactly, these folks are more dangerous to our 2A, than the criminals themselves. Their voices are louder. They are really embarrassing the folks who own guns because they bellow stupidity constantly. Guns a blazing mentality is just stupid.
 
TurtleDude said:
you obviously are unaware of my prior comments about "terrible ted"

you are in no position to claim anyone else's posts are idiotic when your solution to an active killer coming to kill is to tell him to go home

and each one of your posts further proves that your charade about being a gun owners is nonsense.
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I know Ted, let's just drop them on the church steps...much better solution. You are cracking me up.
 
haymarket said:
And I have no problem with carrying weapons. Get a CCW and don't flash it in public just to show how manly you are and whose is bigger and badder. Grow up for heavens sake.
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Thats your problem. You are inferring that someone recognizing reality and choosing to carry means they want to be a macho gunslinger. You are assigning values to actions based on a response to reality.

Your emotion is clouding your judgement.
 
Nursmate said:
Fair enough...LOL. If you want to be lumped into a "Ted Nugent" gun owner, so be it. I have more class. You embarrass the majority of gun owners. Even our returning Vets from active combat do not make the silly statements that you do...LOL..and they actually have used a gun in self defense. They never brag about it like the willfully ignorant do. I am not sure what I would do in the event of a break in, it has never happened. But I am not going to sit around talking about taking a person's life with my 9mm...with a gleam in my eye. It is a personal matter where a decision will be made in the event it happens. This subject is brought up often in the lounge of the gun club my husband and I belong to...we laugh at people who make these statements. I don't want to be broad brushed as a gun nut because I own a gun.
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So you own guns and belong to a gun club. :lol:

You do realize that based on this alone many leftists already consider you a "gun nut".
 
Nursmate said:
Well said....the problem I have is the paranoia from those who feel the need to carry in church or any other place. It is a attitude, "my dick is bigger than yours"...and this embarrasses the intelligent gun owners.
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Again, you are making a value judgement of rational behavior.
 
US Conservative said:
Thats your problem. You are inferring that someone recognizing reality and choosing to carry means they want to be a macho gunslinger. You are assigning values to actions based on a response to reality.

Your emotion is clouding your judgement.
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Thank you Mr. Spock. Get off it - really - give it a rest. You have emotions. We all have emotions. And they effect you too. So get off this kick that everybody who disagrees with you is some emotional basket case. I simply do not want to live in an increasingly gun centric society. And if that implies that some of the more vocal and in your face open carry zealots are macho assholes trying to mask their own emotional or social issues - so be it.
 
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haymarket said:
But I view this open carry issue like viewing somebody else reproductive organs. Sorry - but keep them in your pants hidden and I do not want to see them in public. Get a CCW and carry out of the public view. And if your jacket slips open and somebody sees part of a pistol - we can deal with that short of changing the damn law so you can brandish a rifle on your back in public.
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Actually, in some ways you're looking for a solution without a problem. I live in one of the most gun-permissive states in the country (Mississippi). A person can legally own a machine gun here if he pays the federal transfer tax. We have open carry, concealed carry, castle doctrine, stand your ground, etc. Citizens can carry a gun legally in a tote or purse without the need of a permit. Same for an automobile. And yet I have yet to see anyone strapping a so-called assault rifle over his shoulder or pistol to his hip anywhere in public with the exception of a gun range. Unless you frequent pro-gun rallies or protests, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
 
haymarket said:
Thank you Mr. Spock. Get off it - really - give it a rest. You have emotions. We all have emotions. And they effect you too. So get off this kick that everybody who disagrees with you is some emotional basket case. I simply do not want to live in an increasingly gun centric society. And if that implies that some of the more vocal and in your face open carry zealots are macho assholes trying to mask their own emotional or social issues - so be it.
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What you are saying is you prefer your feelings to the safety of others. Do we agree on this?
 
Ahlevah said:
Emanuel A.M.E. Church did not allow guns. We can all see how that turned out.
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You do not know if it would have made a dammed difference.
And your point is- Weapons carried everywhere?

Do not take this personally – The rest of the developed world just does not get America’s love affair with weapons.
Borders on sacred, and any who disagree are committing blasphemy
 
Ahlevah said:
Cotton might be "insensitive" and a "monster," but he's got a point: Another mass shooting in a "gun free zone."
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Actually, this is one of those arguments that I find aggravatingly simplistic and nonsensical.

If it is wrong to blame all gun owners and constitutional gun ownership rights for the criminal and mental actions of a few, why is it okay to blame someone who's a victim and who chose to exercise his rights by not having guns around for the criminal and mental actions in this incident?

About time people stopped trying to find scapegoats on both sides of the argument and started dealing with the real issues here. Right now, in America, you have the most divided citizenry I've seen in a long time and rather than a new age of racial harmony since the election of President Obama, you seem to have greatly heightened racial tensions in many areas of your country. About time to temper the anger on all sides and get back to being civilized people who respect one another.
 
Ahlevah said:
Actually, in some ways you're looking for a solution without a problem. I live in one of the most gun-permissive states in the country (Mississippi). A person can legally own a machine gun here if he pays the federal transfer tax. We have open carry, concealed carry, castle doctrine, stand your ground, etc. Citizens can carry a gun legally in a tote or purse without the need of a permit. Same for an automobile. And yet I have yet to see anyone strapping a so-called assault rifle over his shoulder or pistol to his hip anywhere in public with the exception of a gun range. Unless you frequent pro-gun rallies or protests, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
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That would depend on how you define what a problem is. When I see several busloads of school kids having to abandon a visit to the state capitol building that could have taught them a great deal and took a year to plan so that bunch of camp costumed doofuses can prance around with a "look at mine and how big it is" smart ass glare on their faces - yeah - to me thats a problem.
 
US Conservative said:
What you are saying is you prefer your feelings to the safety of others. Do we agree on this?
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NO. We all have feelings. We all have emotions. We all use data and facts and experience to form our opinions. Those on the right are in no way different or special or exempt in this regard. So knock off with the right wing crap about deciding things with emotions. It is the height of conceit as it is simultaneously intended to both slap your perceived ideological enemy in the face and pat yourself on the back at the same time.
 
Nursmate said:
Exactly, these folks are more dangerous to our 2A, than the criminals themselves. Their voices are louder. They are really embarrassing the folks who own guns because they bellow stupidity constantly. Guns a blazing mentality is just stupid.
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LOL that is idiotic. but thanks for proving what I already knew about your position-you hate the NRA more than criminals which is common among left-wingers. the stupidity is your pretense of what really annoys you.
 
Nursmate said:
I know Ted, let's just drop them on the church steps...much better solution. You are cracking me up.
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Non-responsive try again. so a guy comes to your church and the metal detector says he has a gun
and you tell him to go home

if he does-he was not going to be a problem to start with

if he is a problem, you are dead and so are many others in the church

good thinking there
 
US Conservative said:
So you own guns and belong to a gun club. :lol:

You do realize that based on this alone many leftists already consider you a "gun nut".
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I don't believe her claim. Ben and Jerry used to host seminars where they told they leftwing audiences to always preface a call to a radio station talk show or a letter to a newspaper with

"I voted for Bush BUT"

when you heard the blather those seminar callers would spew, you knew in a NY second that the caller never voted for Bush. and I have been involved in gun sports and gun rights almost all my life and constantly since I was 15 and an aspiring Olympic shotgun athlete, and her comments are not consistent with gun ownership.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't believe her claim.
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Beliefs are funny like that. If it threatens to upset your own self imposed belief system - you can not believe anything you don't feel comfortable with.
 
haymarket said:
NO. We all have feelings. We all have emotions. We all use data and facts and experience to form our opinions. Those on the right are in no way different or special or exempt in this regard. So knock off with the right wing crap about deciding things with emotions. It is the height of conceit as it is simultaneously intended to both slap your perceived ideological enemy in the face and pat yourself on the back at the same time.
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You said you dont care, you dont want a society with more guns. This suggests you prefer your emotions to reality.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No. We see things like this happen even in places where it is legal to carry. People still have the right to choose whether they carry a gun or not. Further, as pro-2A people constantly say, gun laws won't stop criminals from getting guns. No gun-free zones won't stop psychopaths from doing these kinds of things... and in these cases is it always SOLELY the fault of the psychopath. It is never the fault of the individual who choose to not have a weapon. And yes, the moron from the NRA was a moron. His timing was idiotic and thoughtless, and his implied blaming the victim was plain stupid.

If we want to reduce gun violence, we need to make mental health services more available. Pretty much every one of these killers had some significant mental health issues.
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Couldn't agree more, mental health funding has been steadily gutted and we are seeing some negative effects from those decisions, it's a bi-partisan mistake as it took congressional budgeting with presidential approval and this has been generations in the making. Along with the decreases in funding we also took a lot of power away from the courts and others to address these issues more readily and of course the stigma of being treated for mental illness. Those three things need to be fixed and as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, it may be too early to determine if this kid is mentally ill versus so full of hatred that he acted on it IMO. I guess you could say that irrational hatred in and of itself was a form of mental illness though.
 
TurtleDude said:
and I have been involved in gun sports and gun rights almost all my life and constantly since I was 15 and an aspiring Olympic shotgun athlete, and her comments are not consistent with gun ownership.
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They're perfectly consistent with my beliefs, and I'm a gun owner and like you grew up with guns in my hand. Believe it or not, the gun owning community doesn't all march to the exact same drummer.

It's very strange that you cannot even accept that others have different opinions than your own. It's a kind of irrationality or intellectual dishonesty that is hard to grasp.

You did it with guns in churches, basically discounted the very idea that allowing concealed carry MATTERS to non-gun toters. Of course it matters. My wife has shot a shotgun maybe 3 times. That's her entire experience with firearms. She's incredibly uncomfortable around them and doesn't like being in the same room with armed individuals. Rational or not, agree or not, that just IS how she feels. I'm not scared of guns, but being around armed individuals simply does change the dynamic in a room or a setting, for me. It introduces a kind of tension that I don't really worry about but don't see any reason to tolerate unless there's a reason guns are needed in that setting for protection. I have to worry about that person with a gun, is it pointed safely, does he know how to use it, is he sober, is he sane, etc.
 
JasperL said:
They're perfectly consistent with my beliefs, and I'm a gun owner and like you grew up with guns in my hand. Believe it or not, the gun owning community doesn't all march to the exact same drummer.

It's very strange that you cannot even accept that others have different opinions than your own. It's a kind of irrationality or intellectual dishonesty that is hard to grasp.

You did it with guns in churches, basically discounted the very idea that allowing concealed carry MATTERS to non-gun toters. Of course it matters. My wife has shot a shotgun maybe 3 times. That's her entire experience with firearms. She's incredibly uncomfortable around them and doesn't like being in the same room with armed individuals. Rational or not, agree or not, that just IS how she feels. I'm not scared of guns, but being around armed individuals simply does change the dynamic in a room or a setting, for me. It introduces a kind of tension that I don't really worry about but don't see any reason to tolerate unless there's a reason guns are needed in that setting for protection. I have to worry about that person with a gun, is it pointed safely, does he know how to use it, is he sober, is he sane, etc.
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oh there are gun owners who don't understand what is going on with the gun ban movement.
 
US Conservative said:
You said you dont care, you dont want a society with more guns. This suggests you prefer your emotions to reality.
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No it is reality that I do not want an increasingly gun centric society. And that involves a hell of a lot more than just counting numbers of guns.
 
TurtleDude said:
oh there are gun owners who don't understand what is going on with the gun ban movement.
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translation: they are not on the far right extreme fringe of the gun issue.
 
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