• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

Ahlevah

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
5,012
Location
Pindostan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
A National Rifle Association executive in Texas has come under fire for suggesting that a South Carolina lawmaker and pastor slain with eight members of his congregation bears some of the blame for his opposition to permitting concealed handguns in church.

In an online thread about Wednesday night's mass shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Church in Charleston, Cotton said that one of the nine people slain, church pastor and Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, had voted against legislation in 2011 that would have allowed concealed possession of handguns in restaurants, day-care centers and churches....

"Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead," Cotton wrote.

NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths | Reuters

Cotton might be "insensitive" and a "monster," but he's got a point: Another mass shooting in a "gun free zone."
 
Cotton might be "insensitive" and a "monster," but he's got a point: Another mass shooting in a "gun free zone."

No. There is no-one to blame for this other than the one pulling the trigger, and to a somewhat lesser extent those who knew and failed to stop him, those who taught him to hate, and those who believe the same things he does. There is no way no know, there is no reason to believe that any of those 9 people would have been carrying or if one of them was that it would have made a difference.
 
You fail to mention that the South Carolina legislature failed to pass a law allowing concealed carry in churches and other public places.
As to be expected from someone defending this NRA board member .

Cotton might be "insensitive" and a "monster," but he's got a point: Another mass shooting in a "gun free zone."
 
No. There is no-one to blame for this other than the one pulling the trigger, and to a somewhat lesser extent those who knew and failed to stop him, those who taught him to hate, and those who believe the same things he does. There is no way no know, there is no reason to believe that any of those 9 people would have been carrying or if one of them was that it would have made a difference.

Agreed. Apologists for this kind of monster are almost as bad as the shooter himself.
 
You fail to mention that the South Carolina legislature failed to pass a law allowing concealed carry in churches and other public places.
As to be expected from someone defending this NRA board member .

If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons, it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof. Not defending the NRA board member personally, just his logic, which is sound. The fact that he's right and touched a nerve is why his comments are getting such a visceral reaction from the anti-gun crowd. They just can't acknowledge that people who have the ability to defend themselves stand a better chance of not getting shot than those who don't. Seems like common sense, but then maybe I expect too much from liberals.
 
If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons,
it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof.

The Reverend would have been breaking the state of South Carolina law by giving consent to carry concealed weapons.
Is that what you are advocating?
Why do you continue to make excuses for this NRA board member and go along with his criticism of the reverend/state senator ?
 
If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons, it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof. Not defending the NRA board member personally, just his logic, which is sound.
The fact that he's right and touched a nerve is why his comments are getting such a visceral reaction from the anti-gun crowd.
They just can't acknowledge that people who have the ability to defend themselves stand a better chance of not getting shot than those who don't. Seems like common sense, but then maybe I expect too much from liberals.



Wrong.

He's getting negative feedback from the whole world because his comments are totally wrong.
 
The Reverend would have been breaking the state of South Carolina law by giving consent to carry concealed weapons.

That is incorrect:

South Carolina forbids residents with concealed-carry permits to bring their weapons into a church or “other established religious sanctuary” without “express permission” from a church official or other authority affiliated with the institution.

South Carolina Has Permissive Gun Laws. Here's Why That Won't Change.
 
He's getting negative feedback from the whole world because his comments are totally wrong.

It can't be that his logic is flawed because that's not what's being questioned, at least not by people with a brain. Just his "insensitivity."
 
The NRA is the most vile and disgusting organization in this country. Who in the hell wants to carry a gun to worship in church and how could anyone suggest that. They use every tragic event to promote their insane ideology. This group appeals to militia idiots and skin heads.
 
That is incorrect:

Then you are forcing your belief system on someone who was murdered.
While also blaming him for the other eight deaths as the NRA board member did.

Same behavior as with Sandy Hook--and not a GOP word to be heard but blame the dead for a no-gun zone.
You people won't be happy until everyone is carrying, open or concealed.

Then we'll have plenty of shoot-outs every day, such as with the bikers in Texas.

And why don't athletic arenas in the South allow concealed carry ?
 
The NRA guy should do the same thing anti-gun people should do at a time like this. Enjoy a nice tall glass of shut the **** up.
 
If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons, it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof. Not defending the NRA board member personally, just his logic, which is sound. The fact that he's right and touched a nerve is why his comments are getting such a visceral reaction from the anti-gun crowd. They just can't acknowledge that people who have the ability to defend themselves stand a better chance of not getting shot than those who don't. Seems like common sense, but then maybe I expect too much from liberals.

The NRA board member doesn't seem to understand the notion of responsibility. The blame on this matter is solely on the shooter. The NRA Board member is just as ignorant and void of logic as those who would blame guns and gun laws for what happened. He's wrong and not only doesn't seem to understand the concept of responsibility, but would undoubtedly show his hypocrisy if the opposing argument was presented. This would seem to be common sense, but maybe I expect too much from conservatives.
 
The NRA guy should do the same thing anti-gun people should do at a time like this. Enjoy a nice tall glass of shut the **** up.
Neither side should use this for politics. 9 innocent people lost their lives in a vile and vicious attack by a deranged little piece of crap looking to cause racial violence. The pastor here is not to blame, the congregation certainly not, not society, and not the gun. Rather, the blame lies solely on one sick little **** and anyone who knew what he was planning and remained silent.
 
The NRA is the most vile and disgusting organization in this country. Who in the hell wants to carry a gun to worship in church and how could anyone suggest that. They use every tragic event to promote their insane ideology. This group appeals to militia idiots and skin heads.
The NRA stands in opposition to jackasses, morons, and douchebags that seize upon every possible opportunity to attempt to force new legislation and laws in the furtherance of their agenda. They protect the Constitutional freedoms of millions of Americans. If there wasnt the steady drumbeat of antigun rhetoric, the NRA would be relatively silent while promoting gun safety course and responsible gun ownership. When ****heads legislatively attack, they respond.

This isnt the time for the NRA rep to have that discussion and he damn sure shouldnt have brought the concept of blame or responsibility into this. There is only one person responsible for this and he is currently under arrest.
 
Neither side should use this for politics. 9 innocent people lost their lives in a vile and vicious attack by a deranged little piece of crap looking to cause racial violence. The pastor here is not to blame, the congregation certainly not, not society, and not the gun. Rather, the blame lies solely on one sick little **** and anyone who knew what he was planning and remained silent.
I completely agree.
 
If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons, it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof. Not defending the NRA board member personally, just his logic, which is sound. The fact that he's right and touched a nerve is why his comments are getting such a visceral reaction from the anti-gun crowd. They just can't acknowledge that people who have the ability to defend themselves stand a better chance of not getting shot than those who don't. Seems like common sense, but then maybe I expect too much from liberals.
What if some of the victims were armed but couldn't respond quick enough? What if the killer took the victims gun after he ran out of bullets and used it to kill more victims? What if the shooter didn't have access to a gun? We could do 'what if's all day long.
 
The NRA board member doesn't seem to understand the notion of responsibility. The blame on this matter is solely on the shooter. The NRA Board member is just as ignorant and void of logic as those who would blame guns and gun laws for what happened. He's wrong and not only doesn't seem to understand the concept of responsibility, but would undoubtedly show his hypocrisy if the opposing argument was presented. This would seem to be common sense, but maybe I expect too much from conservatives.
Anyone with prior knowledge of the shooter's intent that didn't come forward should be charged as an accomplice. This was a disgusting act portrayed by a complete coward. These folks were good church going people who accepted all who came, the shooter exploited that, and unfortunately that was a play that worked for the dirtbag. I am not going to mince words, hell will be very eventful for the POS.
 
Cotton might be "insensitive" and a "monster," but he's got a point: Another mass shooting in a "gun free zone."

Gun free zones cannot exist without enforcement, an expensive and manpower intensive undertaking. A sign/law alone stops nothing as we see many no dumping signs which are placed in areas frequently used as dumps. Criminals, especially of the suicidal and mentally challenged variety, do not obey laws (or signs) and could care less how many of them that they may be violating. Should we replace the TSA agents with "no terrorist activity zone" signs and see if that works as well?

The point, made by most, is that the criminal alone is responsible for their criminal acts. I doubt whether any of the SC church victims would have been armed even if the law had allowed for it. To assert that gun free zone laws/signs cause (attract?) crime is just as silly as saying that no dumping signs cause (attract?) roadside dumping.
 
Just scanning the forum, we have tons of threads on this issue. Here's what happened:

Some hateful asshole decided to go into a church and kill 9 people in the name of racism.

Here is who's fault it is NOT:
1) Whites
2) Blacks
3) People who support gun rights
4) People who do not support gun rights
5) The NRA
6) The Brady Campaign
7) Guns
8) Bullets
9) Obama
10) Bush
11) The Pastor
12) The parents of the shooter
13) Muslims
14) Jews
15) The French
16) Anyone other than the shooter

And here who is responsible for the killings:

1) The shooter

Let's all show some logic and common sense and NOT hypocrisy and place the blame where it belongs. No one forced him to kill those people and ease of access, if that is what was there, STILL does not place blame anywhere other than with the shooter.
 
Anyone with prior knowledge of the shooter's intent that didn't come forward should be charged as an accomplice. This was a disgusting act portrayed by a complete coward. These folks were good church going people who accepted all who came, the shooter exploited that, and unfortunately that was a play that worked for the dirtbag. I am not going to mince words, hell will be very eventful for the POS.

I would agree. If someone knew he was going to do this and said nothing, they have some minor responsibility in the act, but one never really does know what someone will do.
 
I would agree. If someone knew he was going to do this and said nothing, they have some minor responsibility in the act, but one never really does know what someone will do.
True, I will say this. If I thought for half a second that someone I knew was going to commit a horrible act, I would absolutely alert the authorities. Worst case they get help and no innocents are harmed, I don't care if it's a friend or a blood relative, this is a responsibility too great to chance.
 
I would think that the NRA should be completely condemning the shooter in this case. He is exactly what the NRA is against... an irresponsible and criminal gun user.
 
I would think that the NRA should be completely condemning the shooter in this case. He is exactly what the NRA is against... an irresponsible and criminal gun user.
I would guess this NRA executive has been pulled into a back room and read the riot act. Of the pro-2A groups they are the one I least respect but they still advocate responsible exercise. What this guy stated is beyond belief and honestly goes completely against the founding principles of the NRA, he is likely done for TBH. Anyone who is honestly pro-2A advocates responsible ownership and bearing. This shooting was abhorrent, disgusting, and no one should take anything from it but sorrow. This shooter is probably the one I most hate and that is saying something, while I am 100% on the side of legal carry, I advocate responsible use, and with that I also advocate ethical use of force, pretty much meaning only in defense, never to murder, and absolutely never using violence against the innocent.
 
Back
Top Bottom