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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I'm not denying that this kid wasn't racist and his racism chose his target. But be honest here...if he hadn't done it here...do you REALLY think he wouldn't he eventually committed, or attempted, a mass homicidal act. From what he said, he seems to think he is a victim. And we know he was on drugs.

I have to ask you: how many racist actually breach the murder line? Not many. So what the hell caused this nut bag to do it? We can decry racism and all that other garbage, but you should be smart enough to know that that will all be political outcry. It won't be a solution. And it will do nothing helpful in the end:



Groucho Marx

Now can you actually say that the diagnosis here is that it was guns and racism that pushed him over the brink? Or was it something else? Why are do people want to NOT focus on the fact that our understanding of mental health in this nation, and how we should go about it is basically non existent.

You're not wrong on the mental health thing -- it was a toxic cocktail of numerous things, racism being one of them.
 
Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

You're not wrong on the mental health thing -- it was a toxic cocktail of numerous things, racism being one of them.

Again. Like I said. I don't disagree. But it being a cocktail...it wasn't the racism that got him drunk. That was just juice for flavor. My big thing is that I'm pissed off that people want us to focus on race when it is not what caused it. We are squandering the time to actually begin research.

This scumbag should be turned into a lab rat.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

You're not wrong on the mental health thing -- it was a toxic cocktail of numerous things, racism being one of them.

Let's not forget about easy availability of guns, and a gun culture that was comfortable with having a mentally ill, obviously hate filled racist bastard being armed. So comfortable, that his family actually bought him a gun.
 
Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Let's not forget about easy availability of guns, and a gun culture that was comfortable with having a mentally ill, obviously hate filled racist bastard being armed. So comfortable, that his family actually bought him a gun.

So again I will repeat you this one simple statistic:

.02% of gun owners commit murder. Even less when you consider a majority of murders are committed with illegally owned firearms by unlawful owners. And about .00016% of firearms owners have committed mass murder in the past 3 decades.

Easy availability didn't cause anything. Nor a "gun culture." How can you see these percentages and actually assign blame to the object?

AGAIN...how many gun owners commit these acts? How many racists? Why are people like you constantly trying to focus on the things that are NOT the causes? Are you even interested in trying to reduce murder and deal with our ACTUAL crisis in handling and understanding what causes someone to go over the brink and start murdering others?

Tell me...what do we know about these people? What do we know about their reasoning? About their mental health? Their medications? We do know that most showed warning signs of this violent behavior. Even this shooter had drug issues.

I will give you that I think it is a culture issue. I think our culture has fostered a selfish mentality where the world is all about me. AND on top of that...we have increasing connectivity between hundreds of millions of people. If not BILLIONS. But guess what? How many people are losing touch with REAL flesh and blood humans? How many kids are playing video games as their primary sport? Or Facebook and texting for their social interaction? People have lost touch with REALITY in search for those billions of individual "realities" created in their perfect little self involved world.

So yes. Culture is an issue. But it isn't the politically expedient "gun culture" (aka republican voters). It is the culture that has isolated the individual, thrown them into a sea of billions, ostracized them, ignores the warning signs, and refuses to look deal with the HUMAN aspect of life (aka...ALL people in America). Oh and let's not forget that we plaster these faceless people's image all over the world so that in their last desperate act to step away from the faceless crowd...they get recognition.

We can continue down this path, and even if guns were magically gone...we wouldn't become a civilized society. We would still be violent. And these people would be come bombers and knife wielders and rapists and so many other things. We will still ostracize and discourage people who seek to connect through the real world, encourage faceless interaction, and give recognition to the desperate seeking it like crack addicts trying to score.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Anti intellectualism is right. Why? Because only someone who has no intellect would look at this situation and blame guns and racism. Let me ask you a serious question: how many racists are there in this country?

The answer is plenty. If racism CAUSED this incident...then why don't we see more race related mass murders? Now do you think this kids racism was the biggest factor in what caused the shooting? Because that ignores that there are racists all over the place, and few engage in mass shootings.

Any guns? Guns being part of the problem? 3 things:

1) 0.02% of firearms owners commit murder.
2) Mass murder is even LESS common.
3) There are many racist people who own guns. They STILL don't commit mass murder.

So it isn't access to guns, it isn't gun ownership, and it isn't racism that caused this issue. So as far as "anti intellectualism goes" I agree...it is the people who are constantly focusing on the non issue. The issues that are politically expedient and great to talk about because they hurt your rival politicians and their lobby group. ESPECIALLY with an upcoming election cycle.

Why aren't we talking about the fact that relatively few people commit this kind of act? Why aren't we asking for a special behavioral analysis group to begin testing and evaluation of the mentally violent and unstable? How many times do people have to go on murdering with knives and guns and all this, until some scumbag politician finally decides that the interests of America might be better served in looking at the root cause of violence.

You want more gun control? That means more cops to enforce it? Last I checked the democrats were up in arms over police brutality? Who the hell is going to deal with more gun control? The incompetent ATF? Seriously. All of the stuff piling up and we STILL are not hearing calls for improved mental health care.

No. Let's continue on our self involved Facebook world and ignore the consequences of our increasingly cut off culture that isolates these lunatics even further from help.

So since there are racists who haven't committed mass murder then your point is that race isn't a factor or the primary reason for this shooter? You can't be serious.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Anti intellectualism is right. Why? Because only someone who has no intellect would look at this situation and blame guns and racism. Let me ask you a serious question: how many racists are there in this country?

The answer is plenty. If racism CAUSED this incident...then why don't we see more race related mass murders? Now do you think this kids racism was the biggest factor in what caused the shooting? Because that ignores that there are racists all over the place, and few engage in mass shootings.

Any guns? Guns being part of the problem? 3 things:

1) 0.02% of firearms owners commit murder.
2) Mass murder is even LESS common.
3) There are many racist people who own guns. They STILL don't commit mass murder.

So it isn't access to guns, it isn't gun ownership, and it isn't racism that caused this issue. So as far as "anti intellectualism goes" I agree...it is the people who are constantly focusing on the non issue. The issues that are politically expedient and great to talk about because they hurt your rival politicians and their lobby group. ESPECIALLY with an upcoming election cycle.

Why aren't we talking about the fact that relatively few people commit this kind of act? Why aren't we asking for a special behavioral analysis group to begin testing and evaluation of the mentally violent and unstable? How many times do people have to go on murdering with knives and guns and all this, until some scumbag politician finally decides that the interests of America might be better served in looking at the root cause of violence.

You want more gun control? That means more cops to enforce it? Last I checked the democrats were up in arms over police brutality? Who the hell is going to deal with more gun control? The incompetent ATF? Seriously. All of the stuff piling up and we STILL are not hearing calls for improved mental health care.

No. Let's continue on our self involved Facebook world and ignore the consequences of our increasingly cut off culture that isolates these lunatics even further from help.

Using this logic, middle eastern terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. After all, BILLIONS of people follow Islam, but only a handful of people are terrorists.

It's anti-intellectualism to look at a situation in which a white person goes into a black church and murders black people in cold blood, writes a manifesto stating that black people are the problem; and then state that racism isn't a cause.
<Facepalm>
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

So again I will repeat you this one simple statistic:

.02% of gun owners commit murder. Even less when you consider a majority of murders are committed with illegally owned firearms by unlawful owners. And about .00016% of firearms owners have committed mass murder in the past 3 decades.

Easy availability didn't cause anything. Nor a "gun culture." How can you see these percentages and actually assign blame to the object?

AGAIN...how many gun owners commit these acts? How many racists? Why are people like you constantly trying to focus on the things that are NOT the causes? Are you even interested in trying to reduce murder and deal with our ACTUAL crisis in handling and understanding what causes someone to go over the brink and start murdering others?

Tell me...what do we know about these people? What do we know about their reasoning? About their mental health? Their medications? We do know that most showed warning signs of this violent behavior. Even this shooter had drug issues.

I will give you that I think it is a culture issue. I think our culture has fostered a selfish mentality where the world is all about me. AND on top of that...we have increasing connectivity between hundreds of millions of people. If not BILLIONS. But guess what? How many people are losing touch with REAL flesh and blood humans? How many kids are playing video games as their primary sport? Or Facebook and texting for their social interaction? People have lost touch with REALITY in search for those billions of individual "realities" created in their perfect little self involved world.

So yes. Culture is an issue. But it isn't the politically expedient "gun culture" (aka republican voters). It is the culture that has isolated the individual, thrown them into a sea of billions, ostracized them, ignores the warning signs, and refuses to look deal with the HUMAN aspect of life (aka...ALL people in America). Oh and let's not forget that we plaster these faceless people's image all over the world so that in their last desperate act to step away from the faceless crowd...they get recognition.

We can continue down this path, and even if guns were magically gone...we wouldn't become a civilized society. We would still be violent. And these people would be come bombers and knife wielders and rapists and so many other things. We will still ostracize and discourage people who seek to connect through the real world, encourage faceless interaction, and give recognition to the desperate seeking it like crack addicts trying to score.

I started posting on forums about ten years ago on a forum with zero moderation. An absolute free speech zone. It was surreal. At first is was incredibly cool as not too many people knew about it. But after about four years, it turned into the last refuge of freaks banned from all other sites. This too was very interesting. It gave a wide window into the fringe minds across our nation.

I've seen folks offer bounties for Jewish scalps, ears, hands. I've seen serious calls for a white uprising, racial wars, etc. And these hate mongers never let up... But all of them are chicken**** voters... They don't want to start the war themselves, they want to incite others to do it for them. They whip ignorant idiots into a frenzy and eventually one of them has enough mental collapse do to other factors in their lives that they snap.. And hundreds of thousands of race haters make the "O-face"...

Of course there are other factors at play... But race hatred was the vehicle to express all else that was going wrong with this kid.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I'm not denying that this kid wasn't racist and his racism chose his target. But be honest here...if he hadn't done it here...do you REALLY think he wouldn't he eventually committed, or attempted, a mass homicidal act. From what he said, he seems to think he is a victim. And we know he was on drugs.

I have to ask you: how many racist actually breach the murder line? Not many. So what the hell caused this nut bag to do it? We can decry racism and all that other garbage, but you should be smart enough to know that that will all be political outcry. It won't be a solution. And it will do nothing helpful in the end:



Groucho Marx

Now can you actually say that the diagnosis here is that it was guns and racism that pushed him over the brink? Or was it something else? Why are do people want to NOT focus on the fact that our understanding of mental health in this nation, and how we should go about it is basically non existent.

If this guy wasn't exposed to mass quantities of racist propaganda, especially in the aftermath of Trevon Martin, than it's unlikely that he would have committed any violent act whatsoever.


Lots of people have guns, but almost no one commits mass murder.
Lots of people are racist, but almost no one commits mass murder.
Lots of people are mentally ill, but almost no one commits mass murder.
Lots of people are on drugs, but almost no one commits mass murder.

The reasons behind this shooting are like legs on a stool. Take any of them away and it doesn't happen. Mental health is certainly an issue, but it's not the only issue. And it says something about ourselves when we try to focus just on mental health when it's a white guy committing the act, but ignore mental health when it's anyone else.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

So since there are racists who haven't committed mass murder then your point is that race isn't a factor or the primary reason for this shooter? You can't be serious.

I am DEADLY serious that RACISM decided his target. Are you seriously telling me that there wasn't something else that drove him to commit mass homicide? In fact I will go even further. I would wager good money his racism was a SYMPTOM of whatever rage issue he had.

Tell me. Do you think racism is a diagnosis? Is it listed in the psychology texts as a mental illness? No. Racism is a point of view. Usually it comes from ignorance. Stupidity even. And yes. Hatred. But how often does this point of view become SO extreme that someone decides they are going to, in cold blood, kill 9 people they don't know and have never met?

I'm not defending racism. I'm BEGGING for Americans to stop being morons and STOP listening to the short Cutting politicians and START asking for some answers about our violence problem.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

If this guy wasn't exposed to mass quantities of racist propaganda, especially in the aftermath of Trevon Martin, than it's unlikely that he would have committed any violent act whatsoever.


Lots of people have guns, but almost no one commits mass murder.
Lots of people are racist, but almost no one commits mass murder.
Lots of people are mentally ill, but almost no one commits mass murder.
Lots of people are on drugs, but almost no one commits mass murder.

The reasons behind this shooting are like legs on a stool. Take any of them away and it doesn't happen. Mental health is certainly an issue, but it's not the only issue. And it says something about ourselves when we try to focus just on mental health when it's a white guy committing the act, but ignore mental health when it's anyone else.

You think I'm saying this because he is WHITE!! I said the same ****ing thing when this happened at the naval yard. I say the same thing when I see violence like this.

But let me ask you...do you actually think this kid wouldn't have found something ELSE to get mad at? What we have right now is the ability to ASK and determine what the hell is wrong with his wiring.

It isn't selfish or self involved to demand action on the mental health front. Especially since race and gun control topics have been an issue for 400 years. What hasn't been is the study of the human mind and disorders that cause someone to try and kill as many humans as they meet.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I started posting on forums about ten years ago on a forum with zero moderation. An absolute free speech zone. It was surreal. At first is was incredibly cool as not too many people knew about it. But after about four years, it turned into the last refuge of freaks banned from all other sites. This too was very interesting. It gave a wide window into the fringe minds across our nation.

I've seen folks offer bounties for Jewish scalps, ears, hands. I've seen serious calls for a white uprising, racial wars, etc. And these hate mongers never let up... But all of them are chicken**** voters... They don't want to start the war themselves, they want to incite others to do it for them. They whip ignorant idiots into a frenzy and eventually one of them has enough mental collapse do to other factors in their lives that they snap.. And hundreds of thousands of race haters make the "O-face"...

Of course there are other factors at play... But race hatred was the vehicle to express all else that was going wrong with this kid.

It wasn't the CAUSE. It was the excuse. It was a symptom of underlying problems. Again. I will put it out there that this is NOT about protecting racists. This is about taking the time look at what causes someone to murder.

And I think you touched on part of it with your talk about the online world. A place that lets those scumbags TO SAY EXACTLY what is on their mind, and find people who may justify it. They aren't out in the real world sharing these idiotic views with other humans who can say "hey there is something wrong with you." No...they think their own opinions are facts. They lose touch with reality.

Can you actually deny that the underlying cause and that what REALLY drove him to murder was something fundamentally wrong with his mind. Not his point of view (which was ignorant and stupid).
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

You think I'm saying this because he is WHITE!! I said the same ****ing thing when this happened at the naval yard. I say the same thing when I see violence like this.

But let me ask you...do you actually think this kid wouldn't have found something ELSE to get mad at? What we have right now is the ability to ASK and determine what the hell is wrong with his wiring.

It isn't selfish or self involved to demand action on the mental health front. Especially since race and gun control topics have been an issue for 400 years. What hasn't been is the study of the human mind and disorders that cause someone to try and kill as many humans as they meet.

I appreciate what you're trying to say. We all need to think more deeply about these things, but I think you've taken it a step too far.

It's highly unlikely that he would have found something else to get mad at. That's not how mental health issues work. He didn't have the mental illness "random people killer", he didn't randomly select black people as his target.

If you were right, and racism wasn't a factor, then we'd expect to see mass killers targeting everyone equally. Someone with your "random people killer" sickness might target left handers, or bald people, or people with yellow hats. But we don't see that. People target people that are hated. The hatred is a conduit. Without the conduit, you don't have any action.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I am DEADLY serious that RACISM decided his target. Are you seriously telling me that there wasn't something else that drove him to commit mass homicide? In fact I will go even further. I would wager good money his racism was a SYMPTOM of whatever rage issue he had.

Tell me. Do you think racism is a diagnosis? Is it listed in the psychology texts as a mental illness? No. Racism is a point of view. Usually it comes from ignorance. Stupidity even. And yes. Hatred. But how often does this point of view become SO extreme that someone decides they are going to, in cold blood, kill 9 people they don't know and have never met?

I'm not defending racism. I'm BEGGING for Americans to stop being morons and STOP listening to the short Cutting politicians and START asking for some answers about our violence problem.

He didn't commit mass murder until he started looking into Trayvon Martin and violence against whites. There is nothing I have seen that suggests he suffered any type of mental trauma right around that time. So it was the same mind. People knew him in High School. He wasn't perceived as racist. He had black friends who didn't perceive him as racist. As best I can tell prior to finding racist propaganda online this kid was not racist. Nor had he committed mass murder.

Propaganda is dangerous. Making people believe they are superior, that someone else is inferior, that X poses a threat to you or way of life ect. The propaganda is worded in such ways that people can be sucked into it. Especially when there is no alternative point of view. No real context. It is specifically worded to bring the reader or listener to the conclusion that is desired. As an example all of 1930's Germany was not suffering from mental illness. But they bought into this propaganda.

Some people are very good at manipulation, and others are very gullible. That is what seems to have taken place here. People buy into this stuff for whatever reason. And they are going to choose to react to it in different ways. Just because they don't all commit mass murder, doesn't diminish the role racism played in this. It is the primary factor. This kid was fed a bunch of hate, and accepted it. Then he choose to act on it in this manner. There is nothing to suggest had he not been exposed to the level of racism he was, or if he hadn't bought into it, that he would have killed anyone else, because as I said before, he hadn't committed mass murder prior to that, or shown signs on wanting to that we know of.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

So again I will repeat you this one simple statistic:

.02% of gun owners commit murder. Even less when you consider a majority of murders are committed with illegally owned firearms by unlawful owners. And about .00016% of firearms owners have committed mass murder in the past 3 decades.

Easy availability didn't cause anything. Nor a "gun culture." How can you see these percentages and actually assign blame to the object?

AGAIN...how many gun owners commit these acts? How many racists? Why are people like you constantly trying to focus on the things that are NOT the causes? Are you even interested in trying to reduce murder and deal with our ACTUAL crisis in handling and understanding what causes someone to go over the brink and start murdering others?

Tell me...what do we know about these people? What do we know about their reasoning? About their mental health? Their medications? We do know that most showed warning signs of this violent behavior. Even this shooter had drug issues.

I will give you that I think it is a culture issue. I think our culture has fostered a selfish mentality where the world is all about me. AND on top of that...we have increasing connectivity between hundreds of millions of people. If not BILLIONS. But guess what? How many people are losing touch with REAL flesh and blood humans? How many kids are playing video games as their primary sport? Or Facebook and texting for their social interaction? People have lost touch with REALITY in search for those billions of individual "realities" created in their perfect little self involved world.

So yes. Culture is an issue. But it isn't the politically expedient "gun culture" (aka republican voters). It is the culture that has isolated the individual, thrown them into a sea of billions, ostracized them, ignores the warning signs, and refuses to look deal with the HUMAN aspect of life (aka...ALL people in America). Oh and let's not forget that we plaster these faceless people's image all over the world so that in their last desperate act to step away from the faceless crowd...they get recognition.

We can continue down this path, and even if guns were magically gone...we wouldn't become a civilized society. We would still be violent. And these people would be come bombers and knife wielders and rapists and so many other things. We will still ostracize and discourage people who seek to connect through the real world, encourage faceless interaction, and give recognition to the desperate seeking it like crack addicts trying to score.

100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I appreciate what you're trying to say. We all need to think more deeply about these things, but I think you've taken it a step too far.

It's highly unlikely that he would have found something else to get mad at. That's not how mental health issues work. He didn't have the mental illness "random people killer", he didn't randomly select black people as his target.

If you were right, and racism wasn't a factor, then we'd expect to see mass killers targeting everyone equally. Someone with your "random people killer" sickness might target left handers, or bald people, or people with yellow hats. But we don't see that. People target people that are hated. The hatred is a conduit. Without the conduit, you don't have any action.

2 things though. I never said he randomly selected blacks. It was the racism that decided his target. I'm NOT denying that. What I am suggesting is that this guy, like other mass killers, has an underlying issue that we know nothing about.

We DO see mass killers target random crowd of people. To me that signifies a hatred of society. I've said from the beginning this guy isn't a textbook mass killer, but he will have textbook traits.

Hated I think is the right track. But I would go further and say a pathological hatred. Maybe a pathological rage. And the scary part to ME is a pathological HIDDEN rage. I don't think we as a society have gone far enough to discuss this stuff. Look at new town. That asshole targeted the kids who he thought were stealing his mother. My suggestion is that these people are expressing a hatred. Just like you said. Yes. But it is MORE than just hate. You hate rapist right? Pedophiles? I know I do. They make me sick. But I don't go on a spree targeting them.

Tldr

It is more than hate. It is deeper.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.

So what I'm really reading here is that you have exactly 0 counter to what I said. So I will step down in the mud with you:

100% of murders and attempted murders and thoughts and plans for attempted murders involved human beings.

100% DID NOT involve guns.

So no counter to everything else I said? Not willing to look beyond your narrow view on this topic? You aren't willing to even entertain the possibility that our nation has a pathological rage problem?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It wasn't the CAUSE. It was the excuse. It was a symptom of underlying problems. Again. I will put it out there that this is NOT about protecting racists. This is about taking the time look at what causes someone to murder.

And I think you touched on part of it with your talk about the online world. A place that lets those scumbags TO SAY EXACTLY what is on their mind, and find people who may justify it. They aren't out in the real world sharing these idiotic views with other humans who can say "hey there is something wrong with you." No...they think their own opinions are facts. They lose touch with reality.

Can you actually deny that the underlying cause and that what REALLY drove him to murder was something fundamentally wrong with his mind. Not his point of view (which was ignorant and stupid).

Sure, absolutely.

However, thousands of kids just like Dylann are suffering from the same cocktail of psychological issues, drug use, outcast... That aren't committing mass killings, engaging with hate groups, etc. Most are consumed with other pathologies, obsessions, phobias equally severe and off base.

The difference is, there are no groups seeking to take advantage of someone's irrational, drug distorted, OCD fear of spiders and triggering a murderous rampage... Unless it was against spiders, but who would notice?

So as you said (or someone), lots of racists, rare mass killing. Lots of mentally ill, rare mass killings, same argument. (Acknowledging rare in context of our murderous society)

Racial was the vehicle, the motivator, the driver, the trajectory and the morbidly curious spectators shouting and egging him on, waiting to see him, someone, anyone crash and burn.

Yes, this kid had delusions of grandeur, he was going to be the flashpoint for a racial war. People were finally going to recognize his worth. Any of you ever been to a white pride forum? Every thread is peppered with calls for executions, war, culling, bounties, etc. they all talk and talk and talk and egg each other on, stirring up a frenzied circle jerk, day after day, year after year... And no one does anything... Except once in a while, one of them, riding the crest of psychopathy in an ocean of whack jobs, snaps.

No... Because lots of folks are suffering the same disorders Dylann is and aren't given to violence or race fears, the defining cause IS the inciting of violence within a subculture that feeds off of sociopathy. The cause was racial hatred
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

So what I'm really reading here is that you have exactly 0 counter to what I said. So I will step down in the mud with you:

100% of murders and attempted murders and thoughts and plans for attempted murders involved human beings.

100% DID NOT involve guns.

So no counter to everything else I said? Not willing to look beyond your narrow view on this topic? You aren't willing to even entertain the possibility that our nation has a pathological rage problem?

Of course we have a pathological rage problem.

So does every nation in the world.

Only in this country does that rage problem progress to regular, periodic mass murders.

That's mostly thanks to our lax gun laws, compounded with a pathological gun culture.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

He didn't commit mass murder until he started looking into Trayvon Martin and violence against whites. There is nothing I have seen that suggests he suffered any type of mental trauma right around that time. So it was the same mind. People knew him in High School. He wasn't perceived as racist. He had black friends who didn't perceive him as racist. As best I can tell prior to finding racist propaganda online this kid was not racist. Nor had he committed mass murder.

Propaganda is dangerous. Making people believe they are superior, that someone else is inferior, that X poses a threat to you or way of life ect. The propaganda is worded in such ways that people can be sucked into it. Especially when there is no alternative point of view. No real context. It is specifically worded to bring the reader or listener to the conclusion that is desired. As an example all of 1930's Germany was not suffering from mental illness. But they bought into this propaganda.

Some people are very good at manipulation, and others are very gullible. That is what seems to have taken place here. People buy into this stuff for whatever reason. And they are going to choose to react to it in different ways. Just because they don't all commit mass murder, doesn't diminish the role racism played in this. It is the primary factor. This kid was fed a bunch of hate, and accepted it. Then he choose to act on it in this manner. There is nothing to suggest had he not been exposed to the level of racism he was, or if he hadn't bought into it, that he would have killed anyone else, because as I said before, he hadn't committed mass murder prior to that, or shown signs on wanting to that we know of.

https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions

One thing you need to consider is that these cases onset by 14, but not ALL. His age is important. This is not only when they are diagnosed but often when they develop. Why? The brain is still developing. And to go along with my theory about loss of social interaction...what broke a to a mind deprived of proper human interaction, when that kind is already developing incorrectly?

You may not find a history of racism. Or mental illness. But you may find signs of aggression. Of psychological problems. Like trespassing? Doesn't he have a criminal record? And drug use? Again...Occam's razor.

I'm not saying this kid wasn't racist. I'm not saying it didn't decide his targets. I'm saying that what this kid fits a specific mold, not perfectly, but a mold. And we as a society should just leave this too "blame guns and racism!" And that be it. That is a disservice to the victims. It leaves it at death and no attempt to gain anything from the ashes.

And for your comment on the holocaust...that is an interesting point. And I think there are 2 factors. One is that those people were pushed into it via society. They were compelled to do it. Propaganda had to be constructed strictly for those men. And I wonder if the mindset was propelled further by men like this kid who were developing and learning murder? You are right and there is a great book on the topic: "ordinary men."

But this kid wasn't a nazi in a society propelling him towards holocaust and racial superiority. He was NOT isolated from world views. He was isolated from "friends." How many people actually knew his racial motives? His internet history? How many challenged his views? He was in the prime age for these issues to develop, a drug user, and from what it sounds like...he was losing touch with reality.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions

One thing you need to consider is that these cases onset by 14, but not ALL. His age is important. This is not only when they are diagnosed but often when they develop. Why? The brain is still developing. And to go along with my theory about loss of social interaction...what broke a to a mind deprived of proper human interaction, when that kind is already developing incorrectly?

You may not find a history of racism. Or mental illness. But you may find signs of aggression. Of psychological problems. Like trespassing? Doesn't he have a criminal record? And drug use? Again...Occam's razor.

I'm not saying this kid wasn't racist. I'm not saying it didn't decide his targets. I'm saying that what this kid fits a specific mold, not perfectly, but a mold. And we as a society should just leave this too "blame guns and racism!" And that be it. That is a disservice to the victims. It leaves it at death and no attempt to gain anything from the ashes.

And for your comment on the holocaust...that is an interesting point. And I think there are 2 factors. One is that those people were pushed into it via society. They were compelled to do it. Propaganda had to be constructed strictly for those men. And I wonder if the mindset was propelled further by men like this kid who were developing and learning murder? You are right and there is a great book on the topic: "ordinary men."

But this kid wasn't a nazi in a society propelling him towards holocaust and racial superiority. He was NOT isolated from world views. He was isolated from "friends." How many people actually knew his racial motives? His internet history? How many challenged his views? He was in the prime age for these issues to develop, a drug user, and from what it sounds like...he was losing touch with reality.

He didn't just develop these views. He was taught these views. Not at a young age (best we can tell) but after becoming an adult. I don't think it is a coincidence that he started looking to murder when he started reading up on racist propaganda. I suppose there is a very very very slim chance that he happened to develop a disorder that made him suddenly prone to violence right when he started reading this crap, but more likely he read this crap and it grow hate. And hate for many turns to violence.

Have you read his manifesto? Those aren't the words of a crazy person. Those are the words of someone who knew exactly what he was going to do, and why he was going to do it.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

sounds more and more like the confederate flag is coming down in South Carolina. Problem fixed, right? If only they had taken it down last week then none of this would have happened. Damn you Obama!

anyways, smooth sailing from here on out. cheers
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Let's not forget about easy availability of guns, and a gun culture that was comfortable with having a mentally ill, obviously hate filled racist bastard being armed. So comfortable, that his family actually bought him a gun.

you keep complaining about guns and have no rational suggestions as to change this. and your slur against the gun culture is just that. and there are conflicting reports where the killer got the gun. several reports say he bought it shortly after he turned 21
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.

duh, why clutter up the thread with this sort of nonsense? by definition a GUN SHOT would involves guns. So I ask-so what?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.

Brilliant deduction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lamo
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

No. That would be wrong. But how many warning signs do we know of for serial killers? Or arsonists? Now mass murderers? How can we even begin to deal with this if we don't look at it?

For one...this asshole in SC can be evaluated. Any of them caught alive can. It can be court ordered. Additionally, any person who makes threats and is caught? Any computer records or diaries of the dead criminals as well. Not every American must Be studied. There are groups that can be isolated. We have already done this for some of the characteristics. Law enforcement profiled them a little. And most say the will commit the act, and most have a history of violence.

Unfortunately, you are discussing an ex post facto (after the event) evaluation. Mental health specialists have warned us for years about signs indicating the potential for violence to be found in some individuals, unfortunately not every person who exhibits the signs goes on to commit violence against others. Who picks the ones who are to be refused a gun?
 
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