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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

So then you have no faith in your super secret solution? If I disagree I'll explain why.

Wrong again.

I can see why the Onion article was so over your head.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Oh, your silly scenarios are just crap. Seriously. I know what kind of person I am, I know where I live, and I know how to handle responsibility.

I don't really get what you're arguing. What would you knowing yourself have to do with any of this? Did you understand my post? Do you have a response to the argument?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

you haven't proffered any rational solutions. I tire of "solutions" that are designed to harass conservatives and pretend to stop criminals

You are such a victim.
You must struggle every day with the imagined persecution.

Again, if you can't see the problem, solutions are pointless to present.

Mass shootings involve psychos, victims and guns. We can control one of three easily, and two of three with effort.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I don't really get what you're arguing. What would you knowing yourself have to do with any of this? Did you understand my post? Do you have a response to the argument?

Clearly, we disagree on the meaning of the word "you." :roll:
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Wrong again.

I can see why the Onion article was so over your head.

no one else seems to find your onion citation to have any merit. it was silly because it whined about a problem and had no solutions. its point was to try to demonize gun ownership without having the courage to call for gun bans that it wants
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

no one else seems to find your onion citation to have any merit. it was silly because it whined about a problem and had no solutions. its point was to try to demonize gun ownership without having the courage to call for gun bans that it wants

Poor you. Such persecution.


The point was to get some people to recognize the problem of having repeated mass shootings in the U.S.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Poor you. Such persecution.


The point was to get some people to recognize the problem of having repeated mass shootings in the U.S.

its a problem. so are calls for gun bans made by people who want to harass gun owners and pretend they care ago the victims
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

its a problem. so are calls for gun bans made by people who want to harass gun owners and pretend they care ago the victims

'Pretend'... Rather than care less because their toys are threatened.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

'Pretend'... Rather than care less because their toys are threatened.

How does owning toys equate to not caring about victims of terrorism and hate crimes? How are you coming to these conclusions?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

You don't think the not-so-subtly racist culture of the old Confederacy had any influence on this moron's worldview? Seriously?

I think where he grew up may have had an influence on whom he shot. But I think it had nothing to do with the fact that he shot people.

Clearly, this guy is nuts, and he just happened to choose 'black' people to vent his insane rage against.

It could have been women or Muslims or men or anyone - it just happened to be 'blacks'.

Just like the 'Joker' guy who killed many in that theatre and Timothy McVeigh before him - the targets were not the issue...their insanity was. The same with this guy.

This is not about racism...this is about severe mental illness.

But because it happened in America - and most Americans seem obsessed with racism - this particular massacre is about racism in the mass media.

Sure, there is TONS of racism in America. But going around pointing at it and saying 'see, there it is' isn't going to stop it. It will probably have the opposite effect.
Not talking and thinking about it so much, not looking at people with more or less melanin in their skin as a different 'race' and just getting on with life...that will stop it, imo.
When people stop describing a man as 'a black guy in the red coat' instead of just 'a guy in the red coat' - that is when racism can end.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

This is not about racism...this is about severe mental illness.

.

Hmm. But there are mentally ill, racist people all over the world.

What could it be that makes the U.S. Different from the rest of the developed nations that allows a mass murder like this to happen multiple times per year?

I just can't put my finger on it! What could be the differentiating factor?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Sure, there is TONS of racism in America. But going around pointing at it and saying 'see, there it is' isn't going to stop it. It will probably have the opposite effect.
Not talking and thinking about it so much, not looking at people with more or less melanin in their skin as a different 'race' and just getting on with life...that will stop it, imo.
When people stop describing a man as 'a black guy in the red coat' instead of just 'a guy in the red coat' - that is when racism can end.

No, that's dead wrong. I mean, definitely it would be great if one day people didn't really think much about race. But if the non-white-supremacists just jump to not thinking about race that just amounts to turning a blind eye to what the white supremacists are doing to minorities. First you fix the racism, then you can stop paying attention to race, not the other way around.

Fixing the racism requires much more thought and much more action than we've giving it, not less. Racism thrives and grows in thoughtlessness. For example, today, if a black person and a white person apply for the same job with the same resume, the white person is 2.4 times more likely to get an interview. Most of that isn't people sitting around consciously thinking "muahahah, I hate black people, so I won't interview this black guy." What causes that is a ton of people who just kind of vaguely have the idea that the black guy probably isn't as hard working or trustworthy and they don't really think through why they might feel that way. They don't do the introspection one needs to do to ferret out racist stereotypes that are tucked away in their heads, so the racism thrives.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I have to respectfully disagree.

Its A fact that the MOST Leftist, Liberal cities are the TOP Crime and MURDER.

Rank City
30 Baton Rouge, LA, 29 Youngstown, OH,
28 San Bernardino, CA
27 Oakland, CA
26 Barberton, OH
25 Poughkeepsie, NY
24 Cincinnati, OH
23 Petersburg, VA
22 Wilmington, DE
21 York, PA
20 East Palo Alto, CA
19 Jackson, MS
18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
17 Birmingham, AL
16 East Point, GA
15 East Chicago, IN
14 Compton, CA
13 Baltimore, MD
12 St. Louis, MO
11 Harvey, IL
10 Newark, NJ
9 New Orleans, LA
8 Trenton, NJ
7 Detroit, MI
6 Flint, MI
5 Saginaw, MI
4 Chester, PA
3 Gary, IN
2 Camden, NJ
1 East St. Louis, I

Left-wing extremism within Domestic groups and state-sponsored cells and individuals have
continued their espionage activities and the planning of terrorist actions against the U.S.
government.

Leftist extremists were responsible for three-fourths of the officially designated acts of terrorism in America in the 1980s. From an international perspective, of the 13,858 people who died between 1988 and 1998 in attacks committed by the 10 most active terrorist groups in the world, 74 percent were killed by leftist organizations.

Thousands upon thousands of people are murdered, tortured, mugged, stabbed, beaten, and raped in the USA by Left Wing minded criminal minds in the Hearts of the most Leftist Cities.

RIGHT WING terrorism is not even a drop in the bucket, compared to the damage and terrorism committed in these Lefty, City Political - Literal Bloodbath Zones.

Left-wing extremists are alive and well and have several objectives. Some of these groups want to replace the government with a Marxist-Leninist system.

Leftist extremists also pose an espionage threat to U.S. interests. Within the past several
years, a cell of three Americans who started spying for East Germany during the 1970s
and a group of 12 people spying for the Cuban government have been arrested. The three
Americans, all committed to communism, have proudly spent their lives betraying
America’s secrets. The Cubans were ordered to collect information on U.S. military
activities in Florida.

Between 1988 and 1998, 13, 858 people died in attacks committed by the 10 most active
terrorist organizations in the world. The most violent of these was the Kurdistan
Workers’ Party (PKK), which was responsible for 3,575 deaths. When all of the deaths
attributed to these groups are compared, leftist organizations were responsible for 10,198
or 74 percent of all people killed by the 10 major terrorist groups during this time period
iii
(Omestad, et al., 1999).

From an international perspective, leftist terrorism is alive and
well.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Also if i may add.

At present, the black liberation movements in the United States are following a political
and community-based agenda, unlike the 1970s when the agenda also included terrorist
activities. However, the nationalist movement of the 1970s, which initially had the same
agenda, resulted in extremists within the movement forming several terrorist groups
including the Black Liberation Army and the Republic of New Africa. Some of the
members of those groups are still incarcerated or living in Cuba.

Left Wing Terrorist are hard at work, mutilating and killing little babies, just as they are ready or close to being born, they are literally tortured to death, ripped apart, their brains sucked out, they are boiled alive in agony in salty acid solutions, in horrible, screaming, silent agony.

I. LEFTIST EXTREMISM IS ALIVE AND WELL

TERROR NETWORK U.S.A.
On October 20, 1981, in Nyack, N.Y., a dozen members of the Weather Underground and
the Black Liberation Army robbed an armored Brink’s truck of $1.6 million. They killed
a Brink’s guard and wounded two others.

They seek to create a wall of ignorance by focusing on the fractional, marginal small crime committed by insane people called and labeled as, RIGHT Wingers. The Media never mentions these facts. Leftist agenda is a warped, self destructive mentality, that terrorizes and destroys those who disagree. While siding with the enemies of the USA.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

My decision to own a gun affects only me and those who might find themselves at the wrong end of it.

We own a gun and we use it only for sport. We are members of a gun club and enjoy target practicing. We have never once thought of taking another person's life with it. I have always found comments like this very disturbing and paranoid. Ask any active duty Vet and they will tell you, it looks a lot easier on TV than it is in real life.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

"Bigoted nonsense". Hmph.

If mine is bigoted nonsense, then yours is simple (and perhaps willful) ignorance. You haven't lived it, you haven't seen it firsthand...and I have. You dismiss the political dynamic of the 1950's and 60's as if that was too long ago to make any difference today...but you really have no clue.

For instance, Mississippi didn't officially ratify the 13th Amendment - you know, the one that outlawed slavery - until the year TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN. Yes, that was TWO YEARS ago, sir. Oh, they'll say that the vote to do so was passed in the MS congress back in 1995, that it was an "administrative error" that kept them from sending it in to D.C. to finalize the ratification...but those of us who grew up down there and understand what it's like know better. It's just like in 1984, when I walked down the street in Shaw, MS where I graduated high school a few years before - the "whites" and "coloreds" signs were still posted above the two segregated entrances to the only doctor's office in town. No one raised an eyebrow - it's just the way it was, even twenty years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act.

Imagine that - Mississippi didn't ratify the amendment banning slavery until 138 freaking years AFTER the amendment became part of our Constitution...but YOU would have us believe that the politics down there doesn't have anything to do with racism. You, sir, haven't a freaking clue.

And explaining this to you appears to be sorta like explaining color to a man who has worn completely-blackened goggles since birth: you could take off the blinders at any time and see what colors are really like, but until you do so, any explanation of color to you is nothing more than nonsense.

Sorry - we're different people. You start from a base where every conflict is racism and I start from a base where no conflict is racism. I can easily move, as in this case, to recognize racism for what it is and call it out for what it is. You, on the other hand, can't move from your base belief because your fall back position is if it isn't blatant racism it must be covert racism. Such a sad world you live in.

However, racism really isn't in dispute here - we both agree the actions of this young man stem from racial hatred. What we don't agree on is your obsessed need to attribute that racism to conservative politics. You paint an entire political ideology as racist and that's what makes your comments bigotry. Sorry, it is what it is.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

No one is denying that the Confederacy's cause was ultimately wrong. That is why they lost.

However, acting like this means that the C.S.A. was some unmitigated evil, which all Southerners and White Americans must vehemently deny and hold their heads in shame when acknowledging, is taking things a step too far.

The simple fact of the matter is that the root causes of the American Civil War were always more political and economic than they were ever racial or humanitarian. Pretending like the Union was some bastion of egalitarianism and racial compassion, where the C.S.A. was an inhuman charnel house, is simply bunk as such. The reality of the situation was far more complicated than that.

Most Northerners couldn't have cared less about slavery. They simply wanted to preserve the Union intact. Likewise, even Lincoln, the "Great Emancipator," ultimately didn't have any form of "multiculturalism" in mind when he (almost unilaterally, and with great controversy) moved to free the slaves. His idea was actually to ship them all back to Africa at the first available opportunity.

At the end of the day, the legacy of the Confederacy does no more to foster hate or violence than any other American institution. A handful of idiots have simply co-opted it for that purpose, as such fringe political minorities are wont to do with any number of (ultimately arbitrary) national, historical, and ethnic symbols.

Um, no. As I said before in so many words, I agree that the Union was not a nation of innocent angels - YES, there were many in the North who didn't care about slavery one way or another...but most did, which is why most of those who they elected opposed slavery. YES, Lincoln supported repatriation to Liberia...but he also obviously eventually recognized that slavery was morally wrong; else he would not have supported repatriation, much less have opposed the creation of more slave states prior to the war.

And your claim that "the legacy of the Confederacy does no more to foster hate or violence than any other American institution" is one of the grandest examples of a false equivalency I have ever seen. It was the legacy of the Confederacy that brought about the KKK and Jim Crow. It was the legacy of the Confederacy that gave impetus to those who opposed the Civil Rights struggle, who opposed desegregation (such as the "segregation academies" that still exist in the South to this day - I should know, since I attended one). It was the legacy of the Confederacy that kept Vicksburg, MS (where I lived for a while) from celebrating our nation's Independence Day for eighty-one years after the end of the Civil War.

Bear in mind that I grew up loving what my family considered the legacy and traditions of the Confederacy. In the cemetery beside Linn Baptist Church in Sunflower County, MS, my entire family line including my brother, my mother and her brother, my grandmother and most of her siblings, my great-grandmother and great-grandfather, and my great-great grandmother and great-great grandfather are all buried, beginning in 1870. I have very deep roots there indeed...and I know whereof I speak. I loved the legacy of the Confederacy...until I began to understand what that legacy really was.

Apparently you haven't come to that understanding yet.

No sir, your claim is a false equivalency, a demonstrably erroneous attempt to say that everybody was equally bad, or equally at fault. I just hope that you're courageous enough to admit - even if only to yourself - the depth and breadth of your error.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Fair enough. Although in my case the fact of the SA's political role as an impediment to change is more important than any theological consideration. One historical point to consider: since 18th century militia members often provided their own weapons, the first clause adds weight to the second rather than limiting it.

That makes no difference in the overall debate. The preparatory clause and the debate during the Constitutional Convention over whether we should even have a standing army at all make it obvious that the whole purpose of the SA was to ensure that if there was no standing army, we would at least have an armed militia to help defend our nation against invasion - which was truly a concern at the time, as the British made plain about twenty-five years later. The implication is clear: if we have a standing army, then there is no need for an armed militia...and so the need for the SA is obviated.

Don't get me wrong - like most liberals, I strongly support the right of law-abiding citizens to purchase and keep firearms, but with limits. I support full registration of firearms, background checks for all purchases (public or private), and restrictions against certain types of firearms and attachments...and the idea that these eminently sensible measures are somehow tyrannical...is sheer lunacy. And every year we have thousands of innocent men, women, and children killed (deliberately or accidentally) simply because so many Americans can't see past their own gun fetish.

I don't even own a gun - I don't need one. If I lived back where I grew up in MS, I'd sure as heck have guns in the house, at least one good pistol for self-defense (since the boonies are normally a significantly higher-crime area than the suburbs), a 12-gauge for larger wild animals and the occasional rabid dog, and a .410 for smaller varmints, especially cottonmouths and the relatively new crossbreed we call 'rattlemocs', which is exactly what it sounds like). But where I live, I don't need one.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Sorry - we're different people. You start from a base where every conflict is racism and I start from a base where no conflict is racism. I can easily move, as in this case, to recognize racism for what it is and call it out for what it is. You, on the other hand, can't move from your base belief because your fall back position is if it isn't blatant racism it must be covert racism. Such a sad world you live in.

However, racism really isn't in dispute here - we both agree the actions of this young man stem from racial hatred. What we don't agree on is your obsessed need to attribute that racism to conservative politics. You paint an entire political ideology as racist and that's what makes your comments bigotry. Sorry, it is what it is.

Where did I paint an "entire ideology" as racist? 'Scuse you, but I never did so.

Where did I EVER say or even imply that "every conflict is racism"? 'Scuse you, but I never did so.

Both of those are just you wanting to assign your assumptions to me...and both are flat wrong.

I pointed out at length prime examples of how racism is part and parcel of politics and society in the Deep South - and it's hard to believe that you now know that Mississippi didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until 2013 - TWO freaking years ago - and yet still maintain that racism doesn't play a significant role in Southern politics! Apparently, this is yet another manifestation of the modern conservative stance that if you pretend racism doesn't exist, sooner or later it will magically go away all on its lonesome.

But I guess it's like the old saying - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I saw clips of the 19 year old son of one of the victims, Chris Singleton. He was speaking with his baseball team standing behind him. In addition to be amazingly articulate for a young person, he stressed how he forgave the shooter. He spoke about his mother, and how she loved to pray for him and his sister. If you have a chance, watch it. Tears came to my eyes.

Chris Singleton Delivers Inspiring Speech After Losing His Mom in Charleston Church Shooting | E! Online

Here is a young man who was personally impacted by this. He lost his mother in the most horrific way. Yet unlike the internet keyboard warriors, he didn't blame Fox News and the GOP. He didn't call for people to "mobilize". He didn't scream and rant and point fingers at the gun manufacturers. He spoke of love and forgiveness.

Many people, including many on this board, should shut their mouths and close their fingers, and let someone who this tragedy really impacted speak. This is the way this should be. This young man is a damn inspiration.

So true.
I guess that comes from them living their Faith.
btw, I'm familiar with that tears to your eyes sensation.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

We own a gun and we use it only for sport. We are members of a gun club and enjoy target practicing. We have never once thought of taking another person's life with it. I have always found comments like this very disturbing and paranoid. Ask any active duty Vet and they will tell you, it looks a lot easier on TV than it is in real life.

If you find my post “disturbing” and “paranoid,” then you’ve leaped, after making a number of assumptions, to a very hasty conclusion.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Nixon was for gun control
Bush 1 was for gun control
Reagan was for gun control


All major GOP heroes.


I am a staunch conservative and I am not for gun control. What's your point? And since when is Nixon a GOP hero?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

And there's the problem - what liberals (and the governments and populations of every other first-world democracy on the planet) see as common sense - required registration, required safety training, restriction of firearms and magazines that have no purpose in the civilian community - YOU see as "harassment"...

...never mind that in EVERY first-world democracy around the world today, where that "harassment" is found, the society is MUCH less violent...and far fewer innocent people are murdered. Pick a first-world democracy - ANY first-world democracy - other than America, and what do you find? That it's a heck of a lot SAFER to walk down the streets at night than it is in America...

...and this holds true even in nations with significantly larger Muslim populations than our own (for those Islamophobes out there).

But I forget - going through even a little bureaucratic hassle to legally own guns is TYRANNYYYYYYY!!!!! But if thousands more innocent men, women, and children die because we've got more guns than people in America, well, THAT's quite acceptable, 'cause freedom, y'know!

There are roughly 130 million Americans who possess guns. There are over 3 million guns owned by American citizens. Yet only a tiny fraction of 1% use them to commit any crime much less murder. Do the math. The right to possess firearms is not the problem. And btw, gun violence is actually down by roughly 40% since 1994.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Liberal cities are the TOP Crime and MURDER.

All cities are liberal, so of course all high-crime cities are liberal... Also all the lowest crime cities. And all the cities with the most rollerskating rinks, all the cities with the fewest car washes and all the cities with the most consonants in their names.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

There is so much yet to learn. Was anybody monitoring Roof's response to the med?

Roof's roommate is now giving interviews and claiming that Roof had been planning something for six months. Why didn't the roommate speak up? What was Roof doing to pay the rent?

He probably figured out that his roomate was mentally ill but may not have believed that he would actually do it.
 
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