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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

This is a political forum.
Every day on this forum when blacks or other minorities are targets of violence or police abuse conservatives tell us that hate crime laws are unnecessary and racist, that racism is over, that whites are the most likely victims of racism, that ordinary American Muslims are a threat and that government investigations into white hate groups is unnecessary and unfair. This one incident alone shows how wrong they are.

This is a good example (assuming the shooting was racially motivated) of why hate crime laws are best described as anti-domestic terrorism laws.

Out of curiosity, if every single injustice, actual or imagined, against a black person is considered to be a sign of racial antipathy then how are we ever going to overcome this perceived disparity? People no longer seek solutions to racial issues. They only seek to use every incident to press their sociopolitical agenda.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I find it remarkable that some here are fixated on attaching a political ideology to a violent act as if political ideologies are inherently violent or any individual who adheres to a political philosophy is susceptible to violence as a result. What different cultures we live in. Here in Canada, a mass murder's political ideology would never even be of passing interest let alone the focus of analysis or investigation.

Lmao, aren't you the guy who attached a video of black kids fighting to an entire race of people? Yeah, I doubt anybody on the other side of the isle cares about what you find remarkable as far as painting with wide brushes goes.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

This is a terrible tragedy for my home state. Everyone I've talked to his morning can't talk about anything else. This is about the worst thing that's happened here since the serial killer in my area murdered five in a row a few years back. It's just horrible.

Finding out one of our State Senators was among the dead was like being hit with a hammer.


Naturally everyone wants to know why... at the same time we fear the answer is probably going to be racial hatred of some kind. We know that, despite how far things have come and how much has changed in the past 50 years, some will use this event to point at our state and proclaim us all racists. WE know better, but that won't stop the media from playing it to the hilt.


Regardless of the motivation, this is just terrible to all of us. At first all I heard was "church shooting" and didn't know where... I had peeps who were late getting back from Wednesday night prayer service and feared the worst until I heard it was in Charleston. Still didn't feel at ease after that, as I have kin there, but so far no word that anyone I know personally was harmed. Yes, I'm white (ish) but have some mixed-race cousins who could have been there.


This is a terrible thing. I'm so glad the guy was caught quickly. You look at his picture and wonder if anyone who knew him ever thought "That kid is going to do something really stupid and awful one day."
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The shooter literally told his victims "You rape our women and are taking over country." He literally took a picture of himself wearing a jacket with the flag of white supremacist Rhodesia and the flag of apartheid South Africa sown into it. Anybody bending over backwards to pretend that this was not a racist attack is a ****ing psychotic apologist. What makes their stupidity even worse is that even though they are reluctant to call this single individual a racist, they would be more than eager to brand the entire black population violent if one black person committed a a similar crime and eager to brand the entire Muslim population violent if one Muslim committed a similar attack.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Your comment was the same as multiple other cons in this thread, the focus is punishment (typical con/authoritarian position) and to bury the problem as soon as possible.
Actually, no, and I never said or implied anything about burying the problem. That's the stereotype you've created at work here. I am under no obligation to fit into the pigeonhole you've created in your mind for what a "con" is supposed to believe.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

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... You know?

Sooo... Out of curiosity, would you put the same emphasis on the identity or political beliefs of that one nutbar who shot up the Family Research Council a few years back - You know, the Asian, gay, atheist, radical environmentalist Left Winger, with a deranged hatred of heterosexual "breeders" and Conservatives in general, who shot and attempted to kill a security guard in cold blood (and was planning to kill more) while carrying armfuls of Chick-fil-A sandwiches - or is it only the crazy white guys who warrant this kind of scrutiny?
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Out of curiosity, if every single injustice, actual or imagined, against a black person is considered to be a sign of racial antipathy then how are we ever going to overcome this perceived disparity? People no longer seek solutions to racial issues. They only seek to use every incident to press their sociopolitical agenda.



It seems probable that this was a racially-motivated incident, but we don't know much yet TMK.


However there is a certain irony that after Fort Hood, where a man of Middle Eastern descent shot several people, the government and media were immediately saying "It's not terrorism!" before there's ANY way they could know that... but today the government and media are crying "hate crime!" loud and clear, before there's any way they could know that for certain. :doh
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

They don't need to be. Unless your contention is that police officers in OH receive an extremely different training than police in SC and NJ. If that's the case, then in that case, there is clearly something wrong with OH's training given their results.

All PD forces have slightly different ways of responding to given threats. A lot depends on the risk to the officers and the amount and type of crime in the specific community. Officers in Baltimore have different procedures than do officers in Podunk, Nebraska, for obvious reasons. Add the fact that no two people react in exactly the same way, and that no two incidents are identical and it becomes a practice in intellectual dishonesty to attempt to draw parallels. It's meaningless.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The man is a conservative so there are some given facts that go along with that...
Please do enlighten us on what those facts are.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Why are some here obviously afraid of answering the questions as to what made this man this so extremely racist that he would this?

Answer that and wisdom will follow.

I'm not afraid of anything. I'm also not someone who participates in faulty analysis from the cheap seats.

Out of curiosity, if the murderer happened to be "conservative", self-identified so, as you clearly for some reason hope he is, what about his affinity to conservative ideology would lead him to murder 9 black people in a church? I'd love to know because I sure don't want to wake up one day and find myself taking target practice in a neighbourhood church. So save me, please.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Both are ideology based crimes. They both generally try to make people change their activities. The whole purpose behind the acts of the KKK was to punish whites and blacks for acting like races where equal. If you were a white that served a black? Cross on your lawn and who knows what else. If you were a black that wanted to be served in a white only establishment? Probably a noose. The purpose of white supremacist is to change activities and lifestyles. To force conflict between races or punish groups they target.

It's the same freaking thing...in fact if we didn't have such a long history of racial motivated terrorism it would probably just be labeled under terrorism.

But, none of that changes the fact that we can logically only punish "crimes" not "thoughts." It's fine to say that this crime was bred in the mind of a hateful racist - but that still doesn't change the actual crime, which was killing. There should be no difference in punishment between this man and the freak who shot up the theater in Aurora. Same thing. Both are killers. The only victims are those who died and their families.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I find it remarkable that some here are fixated on attaching a political ideology to a violent act as if political ideologies are inherently violent or any individual who adheres to a political philosophy is susceptible to violence as a result. What different cultures we live in. Here in Canada, a mass murder's political ideology would never even be of passing interest let alone the focus of analysis or investigation.

This division began shortly after 9/11. It was initially a division based on political ideology but, after Katrina, race came into it as well and now it's more based on "social justice" than anything else. If this keeps up for much longer I seriously doubt that we will be able to reconcile these differences peaceably.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Lmao, aren't you the guy who attached a video of black kids fighting to an entire race of people? Yeah, I doubt anybody on the other side of the isle cares about what you find remarkable as far as painting with wide brushes goes.

No, I'm not. I'm the guy who rightly claimed that a video posted in an OP, not posted by me, another of your lies, showing a group of young black gang bangers kicking, punching, spitting on and otherwise assaulting another young black man said more about black America than it said about the American justice system. I never once claimed it represented an entire race, irrespective of your lying attempts to make it appear so.

But hey, I'm not interested in feeding your need to troll so if you have something to offer about this thread, post it up and if I'm interested in your bleatings I might respond.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The shooter literally told his victims "You rape our women and are taking over country." He literally took a picture of himself wearing a jacket with the flag of white supremacist Rhodesia and the flag of apartheid South Africa sown into it. Anybody bending over backwards to pretend that this was not a racist attack is a ****ing psychotic apologist. What makes their stupidity even worse is that even though they are reluctant to call this single individual a racist, they would be more than eager to brand the entire black population violent if one black person committed a a similar crime and eager to brand the entire Muslim population violent if one Muslim committed a similar attack.

Not pointing a finger at you directly, but in general doesn't the opposite side do the exact opposite? Many people would also point a finger at whites while adamantly claiming it's not all Muslims? I agree fully it's a double standard, but the opposite double standard isn't any different.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Why are some here obviously afraid of answering the questions as to what made this man this so extremely racist that he would this?

Answer that and wisdom will follow.

That's not a bad question. For the last two years, we've been hearing how this nation is becoming more racially divided. Many blame the media for whipping up feeding frenzies when minorities are killed before the facts in the cases can come out. Extremist-types on both sides are becoming more and more angry. Hopefully, we won't see any repeats of this type of act. I hope it doesn't become a trend.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Sooo... Out of curiosity, would you put the same emphasis on the identity or political beliefs of that one nutbar who shot up the Family Research Council a few years back

Emphasis on the identity or.. political beliefs of enviro-wackos? Lol. I have no problem with them being declared terrorists/criminals whatever. I certainly wouldn't spend entire threads trying to concoct silly cockamanie stories about the guy's mental condition when it's already clear what his motives were. He (this kid) was a racist, plain and simple and his views on race - as they were behind his motives - are a valid point of discussion. Now, if you want to talk about a shooting that happened years ago that's fine, just don't try and insult me with your silly act of 'look at this one gay guy from 3 years ago!' - It's a pretty see through debate tactic.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

No, I'm not. I'm the guy who rightly claimed that a video posted in an OP, not posted by me, another of your lies, showing a group of young black gang bangers kicking, punching, spitting on and otherwise assaulting another young black man said more about black America than it said about the American justice system.

You're playing semantics and nobody is being fooled. If you don't like generalized claims, don't make them yourself and then complain about other people doing it.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I'm no expert on social media (academically speaking) but I do know that FB is a terrible reflection of who people are. I have 1000 people on my current FB list, and I rarely talk to most of them. The overwhelming majority are people who I've met through work. The people who I do talk to are either family members or close family friends. If somebody were to draw a conclusion from my FB account, they'd say I'm a socialite who is everything from an anti-vaxer (laughable really) to a gun nut (even more so). Yet, here I am being neither of those things and being extremely low key about my personal relationships.

I don't mess with FB. I do nothing that will interest others and most of the folks I have seen on that app are as boring as I am but trying to pretend they aren't. My wife wants to get on it to advertise horses for sale, but I even advised her to stay away from it. It's just another way to contract more viruses and tracking cookies.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Political ideology includes social views, it includes views on race, and is made manifest by the actions one commits. Again, this was the ultimate authoritarian act, most authoritarians are conservative.

How do you explain the authoritarian Obama being liberal?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

My money is on he's mentally unstable.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

All PD forces have slightly different ways of responding to given threats. A lot depends on the risk to the officers and the amount and type of crime in the specific community. Officers in Baltimore have different procedures than do officers in Podunk, Nebraska, for obvious reasons. Add the fact that no two people react in exactly the same way, and that no two incidents are identical and it becomes a practice in intellectual dishonesty to attempt to draw parallels. It's meaningless.

Wakey, wakey, no need for eggs and bakey because I can smell the bull**** from here. It's a simple question. There are no procedures so radically different when it comes to approaching the same supposed threat. As a matter of fact, the facts in these cases show that if police officers can respond without the suspect ending up dead in one scenario that it is possible to do it with others where the threat is nowhere near as high. Keep trying.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

None of this makes him mentally ill. Irrational? Maybe. Murderous? Definitely. Mentally ill? Nope.

Sorry, no, it does make them mentally ill.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I find it remarkable that some here are fixated on attaching a political ideology to a violent act as if political ideologies are inherently violent or any individual who adheres to a political philosophy is susceptible to violence as a result. What different cultures we live in. Here in Canada, a mass murder's political ideology would never even be of passing interest let alone the focus of analysis or investigation.

Perhaps because Canada doesn't have the same history of lynchings and church bombings targeting blacks.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Sorry, no, it does make them mentally ill.

Oh, because you say so? Lol. You're not making a very good case for anything here.
 
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