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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

and when the proponents of unlimited gun ownership spend so much time ridiculing those who would like to see some rationality inserted into the national debate, and when the NRA appears to be little more than a lobbying agency for gun manufacturers, it is rather unconvincing when you pretend that imposing any restrictions on gun ownership is the equivalent of imposing a dictatorship on Americans.


so much fail in that comment

no one is in favor of "unlimited gun ownership"

there is nothing rational about wanting laws that harass lawful gun owners and has absolutely no chance of deterring people willing to commit multiple counts of capital murder

your NRA comment proves what I have been saying: left-wingers are more upset that the NRA helps defeat socialist and collectivist candidates and that is why almost all the gun rights bashers are left wingers,

and you have a duty to prove the laws you want are both constitutional and are actually intended to stop criminals-the duty is not on us to show why they are stupid

since you all have yet to meet either test, your complaints are poorly chosen
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The real world says the anti gun control folks refuse to acknowledge the multiple studies and examples that counter their position. It is impossible to "meet the test" when the goalpost are mounted on a highpowered moving van.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It was most definitely a racist attack.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Again, why present solutions when you can't recognize the problem?

What's YOUR solution?

I asked you. What sort of new gun control regulation would have stopped this from happening?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Where did I paint an "entire ideology" as racist? 'Scuse you, but I never did so.

Where did I EVER say or even imply that "every conflict is racism"? 'Scuse you, but I never did so.

Both of those are just you wanting to assign your assumptions to me...and both are flat wrong.

I pointed out at length prime examples of how racism is part and parcel of politics and society in the Deep South - and it's hard to believe that you now know that Mississippi didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until 2013 - TWO freaking years ago - and yet still maintain that racism doesn't play a significant role in Southern politics! Apparently, this is yet another manifestation of the modern conservative stance that if you pretend racism doesn't exist, sooner or later it will magically go away all on its lonesome.

But I guess it's like the old saying - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

My mistake - I foolishly took your previous comments to be your views and not just trolling. Perhaps my mistake came from your comments in post #584 where you claimed that most whites in the south "accept" racism. Or perhaps my mistake stems from your comments in post #600 where you claimed that conservative politics makes these tragedies more likely and that in the case of this tragedy conservative politics were "almost certainly" involved.

In future, I'll be sure simply to ignore such comments as these since you like to ignore them as well after you've posted them.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The real world says the anti gun control folks refuse to acknowledge the multiple studies and examples that counter their position. It is impossible to "meet the test" when the goalpost are mounted on a highpowered moving van.

We have gun control in this country. The question for those who want more gun control is what measures do you suggest that would prevent this sort of event from happening in the future.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I asked you. What sort of new gun control regulation would have stopped this from happening?

My guess is that someone who's able to obtain opiates will also be able to obtain an illegal gun.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

My guess is that someone who's able to obtain opiates will also be able to obtain an illegal gun.

more importantly, those who claim gun bans (its already illegal for anyone with a record, under indictment, a fugitive, a Domestic violence miscreant, etc to even touch a firearm) will be more effective in stopping criminals from having guns are either dishonest or are completely and totally ignorant about the "success" of the idiotic war on drugs

the only thing the war on drugs has done was to criminalize drug use and that is the purpose of the gun banners-to punish people who want to legally use guns
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The real world says the anti gun control folks refuse to acknowledge the multiple studies and examples that counter their position. It is impossible to "meet the test" when the goalpost are mounted on a highpowered moving van.

the real world being liberal gun haters?

what studies can you find that support your position that actually come from unbiased sources

and what exactly would have stopped this asshole other than someone shooting him in the church?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It was most definitely a racist attack.

Yes, the victims were chosen because of their race. What is being rejected is the idea that this attack is somehow linked to a political philosophy or Fox News, or political rhetoric, or the Confederate flag. It seems every time something like this happens, everyone rushes to try to identify the perpetrators political lean then use that to smear everyone with the same political thinking. Racism was the pretext for his action. The root cause was a twisted mind. He sat with these wonderful people and talked with them for over an hour. Then pulled out a gun and slaughtered them. That is the act of a psychopath, moved by his own twisted thoughts.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Yes, the victims were chosen because of their race. What is being rejected is the idea that this attack is somehow linked to a political philosophy or Fox News, or political rhetoric, or the Confederate flag. It seems every time something like this happens, everyone rushes to try to identify the perpetrators political lean then use that to smear everyone with the same political thinking. Racism was the pretext for his action. The root cause was a twisted mind. He sat with these wonderful people and talked with them for over an hour. Then pulled out a gun and slaughtered them. That is the act of a psychopath, moved by his own twisted thoughts.

The confederate flag stands for their culture. Part of that culture is racism.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Yes, the victims were chosen because of their race. What is being rejected is the idea that this attack is somehow linked to a political philosophy or Fox News, or political rhetoric, or the Confederate flag. It seems every time something like this happens, everyone rushes to try to identify the perpetrators political lean then use that to smear everyone with the same political thinking. Racism was the pretext for his action. The root cause was a twisted mind. He sat with these wonderful people and talked with them for over an hour. Then pulled out a gun and slaughtered them. That is the act of a psychopath, moved by his own twisted thoughts.

Yes, a unique individual who's mentally ill, and I do think racism was the pretext for Roof's mass murder. That's the heart of this--what makes someone commit mass murder?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

When we will learn to live peacefully as human being rather hate each other? What's going on in this country? Why there is so much hatred?! Let flowers in your hand not gun.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

We have gun control in this country. The question for those who want more gun control is what measures do you suggest that would prevent this sort of event from happening in the future.

I think the question is more than that. Just about every gun control measure anybody has ever proposed would reduce the incidence of murder at least a tiny bit. The question is, for each potential gun control measure, whether the reduction it would bring would outweigh the hassle it would create for lawful gun owners.

What is being rejected is the idea that this attack is somehow linked to a political philosophy or Fox News, or political rhetoric

I don't really see how the right can believe that all the racist hate that is spread by some- certainly not all- pundits and politicians on the right could not have an impact. I mean, where do you think this guy got the idea that black people are taking over the country? Where do you think he got the idea that there is some epidemic of blacks raping white women? What kind of "news" could this guy have been reading and listening to that wouldn't have been clear that white supremacy is idiotic and immoral?

Now, that absolutely doesn't mean that conservatism = white supremacy. White supremacy is a problem that once primarily infested the Democratic Party and did all kinds of evil through the Democratic Party. About 50 years ago, the Democrats kicked them out and they began shifting over to the Republican Party. Doing that- kicking them out- was a massive political sacrifice. It isn't easy, at all, for media outlets to turn away the amount of cash that comes from pandering to white supremacists. It is not easy, at all, for a politician to willingly give up all those votes. I do not in any way want to minimize the sacrifice the nation is asking Fox, the GOP, etc., to make here. It is a big ask. We're asking them to give up hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising revenues and millions of votes. If they did it, the entire nation would owe them a major debt of gratitude. But, it has to be done. We did it and we survived as a party. The Republicans would too if they did it. In fact, in the long run, it leaves a political party much stronger to distance itself from that kind of evil. It would be such a magnanimous, noble, sacrifice that many Americans who have at this point written off the GOP would give it a second chance and it would take the whole demographic shift problem off the table, which is pretty much the only way the GOP is going to survive another 20 or 30 years.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I don't really see how the right can believe that all the racist hate that is spread by some- certainly not all- pundits and politicians on the right could not have an impact. I mean, where do you think this guy got the idea that black people are taking over the country? Where do you think he got the idea that there is some epidemic of blacks raping white women? What kind of "news" could this guy have been reading and listening to that wouldn't have been clear that white supremacy is idiotic and immoral?
Sorry, that is asinine. Name for me the political figure or pundit who has said anything even remotely close to that. You cant. You are just spreading lies.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

When we will learn to live peacefully as human being rather hate each other? What's going on in this country? Why there is so much hatred?! Let flowers in your hand not gun.

This is the actions of a single individual. Stop pretending like it is a mass movement.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Sorry, that is asinine. Name for me the political figure or pundit who has said anything even remotely close to that. You cant. You are just spreading lies.

I mean, the idea that minorities are "taking over the country" is a direct quote from Bill O'Reilly... The shooter said, pretty much word for word, what O'Reilly said to summarize the 2012 election results. And it isn't just O'Reilly, that view is constantly expressed by dozens on the right. Even Romney insinuated as much on the very night of the election. Glenn Beck constantly argued that the country has been taken over by communist black supremacists intent on committing genocide against whites... The idea that there is an epidemic of black men raping white women has been a significant theme of right wing media for decades now.

For example, here is a collection of well known right wing pundits ranting about black-on-white crime and particularly black men raping white women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mesx9htmRdI

Ann Coulter pushes the black men raping white women meme pretty much every day. Limbaugh is constantly going on about it. Etc.

These things have an impact. It matters how media outlets talk about this stuff.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I mean, the idea that minorities are "taking over the country" is a direct quote from Bill O'Reilly... The shooter said, pretty much word for word, what O'Reilly said to summarize the 2012 election results. And it isn't just O'Reilly, that view is constantly expressed by dozens on the right. Even Romney insinuated as much on the very night of the election. Glenn Beck constantly argued that the country has been taken over by communist black supremacists intent on committing genocide against whites... The idea that there is an epidemic of black men raping white women has been a significant theme of right wing media for decades now.

For example, here is a collection of well known right wing pundits ranting about black-on-white crime and particularly black men raping white women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mesx9htmRdI

Ann Coulter pushes the black men raping white women meme pretty much every day. Limbaugh is constantly going on about it. Etc.

These things have an impact. It matters how media outlets talk about this stuff.

I don't listen to Limbaugh, and I haven't read a Coulter article in several months. But I did watch your linked YouTube and am disappointed that you're taking what's being said out of context.

Coulter was discussing the "racial etiquette" of mainstream media reporting and how "man bites dog" stories are more frequently covered. She cited as an example of this stats from a DOJ victims survey that indicate over a 15-year period that one to two thousand black-on-white rapes occur while white-on-black rapes are statistically irrelevant.

You show me where Ann Counter or anybody else is pushing a black-men-raping-white-women meme. I don't think you'll be able to, and I urge you to abandon the claim that this is a significant theme of the "right-wing media."
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I mean, the idea that minorities are "taking over the country" is a direct quote from Bill O'Reilly... The shooter said, pretty much word for word, what O'Reilly said to summarize the 2012 election results. And it isn't just O'Reilly, that view is constantly expressed by dozens on the right. Even Romney insinuated as much on the very night of the election. Glenn Beck constantly argued that the country has been taken over by communist black supremacists intent on committing genocide against whites... The idea that there is an epidemic of black men raping white women has been a significant theme of right wing media for decades now.

For example, here is a collection of well known right wing pundits ranting about black-on-white crime and particularly black men raping white women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mesx9htmRdI

Ann Coulter pushes the black men raping white women meme pretty much every day. Limbaugh is constantly going on about it. Etc.

These things have an impact. It matters how media outlets talk about this stuff.

Please provide quotes from Coulter and Limbaugh. If they are "going on about it constantly' you should be able to come up with lots of stuff. I will be kind, though, and request just a single instance from each. Thank you.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I don't listen to Limbaugh, and I haven't read a Coulter article in several months. But I did watch your linked YouTube and am disappointed that you're taking what's being said out of context.

Coulter was discussing the "racial etiquette" of mainstream media reporting and how "man bites dog" stories are more frequently covered. She cited as an example of this stats from a DOJ victims survey that indicate over a 15-year period that one to two thousand black-on-white rapes occur while white-on-black rapes are statistically irrelevant.

You show me where Ann Counter or anybody else is pushing a black-men-raping-white-women meme. I don't think you'll be able to, and I urge you to abandon the claim that this is a significant theme of the "right-wing media."

Please provide quotes from Coulter and Limbaugh. If they are "going on about it constantly' you should be able to come up with lots of stuff. I will be kind, though, and request just a single instance from each. Thank you.

I don't really know what you thought Ann Coulter was about... I mean, I guess if you just aren't familiar with her, that is probably a good thing, but yeah, that's her whole bit- she pitches white supremacy on conservative media outlets. That's the only thing she does. Limbaugh is more of a general-purpose right wing nut. He covers all kinds of things from economic policy to pushing white supremacy. I already gave you several examples of them and other right wingers pushing that meme, but here are some more:

Ann Coulter Says Immigrants Will Rape and Impregnate Your Little Girls
Ann Coulter - December 4, 2013 - LIBERALS TALK RACE AND CRIME - AND HILARITY ENSUES!
The truth about interracial rape
Black America's real problem isn't white racism

Etc.

It isn't a remotely new thing, that has been one of the main white supremacist talking points for literally hundreds of years. In reality, of course, interracial rape is extremely rare. Much of the hype about it historically came from cases where an interracial couple was caught having sex and the authorities just treated that as a rape because interracial sex was so unacceptable that they would coerce the women into saying it was rape, or just ignore what the women said entirely and lock up or kill the black person.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

your posts fail to actually respond to points and instead they engage in irrelevant. and its amusing that you just don't get it. When you spend so much time insulting and ridiculing lawful gun owners, its rather hard to pretend your motivations are actually based on some legitimate desire to increase public safety. Rather, your posts exemplify what i have said all along: your position is based on a disgust for the politics of pro gun advocates and your hatred of the NRA's lobbying efforts

that's why your posts have yet to proffer a legitimate solution for crime issues

Actually, it's because I'm not proposing solutions. I'm trying to let you know you have cancer and you don't want to believe it because you don't like the treatment. And you imagine yourself a 'victim' because of it. Poor you.

Glen Contrarian offered some reasonable solutions in this thread.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I don't really know what you thought Ann Coulter was about... I mean, I guess if you just aren't familiar with her, that is probably a good thing, but yeah, that's her whole bit- she pitches white supremacy on conservative media outlets. That's the only thing she does. Limbaugh is more of a general-purpose right wing nut. He covers all kinds of things from economic policy to pushing white supremacy. I already gave you several examples of them and other right wingers pushing that meme, but here are some more:

Ann Coulter Says Immigrants Will Rape and Impregnate Your Little Girls
Ann Coulter - December 4, 2013 - LIBERALS TALK RACE AND CRIME - AND HILARITY ENSUES!
The truth about interracial rape
Black America's real problem isn't white racism

Etc.

It isn't a remotely new thing, that has been one of the main white supremacist talking points for literally hundreds of years. In reality, of course, interracial rape is extremely rare. Much of the hype about it historically came from cases where an interracial couple was caught having sex and the authorities just treated that as a rape because interracial sex was so unacceptable that they would coerce the women into saying it was rape, or just ignore what the women said entirely and lock up or kill the black person.
You mention Ann Coulter and have just one article by her, without pointing out any untruths. Why not take a quote of hers, in context, and then point out any errors in her logic?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

T

Don't get me wrong - like most liberals, I strongly support the right of law-abiding citizens to purchase and keep firearms, but with limits. I support full registration of firearms, background checks for all purchases (public or private), and restrictions against certain types of firearms and attachments...and the idea that these eminently sensible measures are somehow tyrannical...is sheer lunacy. And every year we have thousands of innocent men, women, and children killed (deliberately or accidentally) simply because so many Americans can't see past their own gun fetish.

I don't even own a gun - I don't need one. If I lived back where I grew up in MS, I'd sure as heck have guns in the house, at least one good pistol for self-defense (since the boonies are normally a significantly higher-crime area than the suburbs), a 12-gauge for larger wild animals and the occasional rabid dog, and a .410 for smaller varmints, especially cottonmouths and the relatively new crossbreed we call 'rattlemocs', which is exactly what it sounds like). But where I live, I don't need one.

you're are advocating gun bans. nothing is sensible about the stuff you support other than trying to ban guns

and most gun banners-if not all are liberals, lefties, socialists, progressives etc.. when I see the nonsense about gun fetishes its a dead giveaway that the motivation for gun control is cultural-=has nothing to do with stopping criminals
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I'm not particularly interested in a foreigner's opinion.
It's actually fact. not opinion. You really should learn to differentiate between the two.
 
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