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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Folks, this guy has said he "Wanted to start a civil war". A race war between blacks and whites.


Now I think he's drastically over-estimating his own importance and the impact of his heinous action... but if we let it, this incident could be yet another brick in the wall separating us by race.



Let's not let that happen. Let's come together and condemn this as an act of senseless and abhorrent violence and hate by a evil person whose actions are NOT representative of white South Carolinians or white Americans in general.




Don't let him win. Don't let this drive us further apart in this time when we're already experiencing more racial tensions than we have in a decade. Let's stand together and not let one hateful young man drive yet another wedge between us.


I live in rural SC. Everywhere I've been today, no one is talking about anything else. Everyone says it was horrible. I've not heard one person, not even the scruffiest redneck, say anything affirmative about what this young hater did.

In the military, one of the greatest insults is to deliberately about-face and turn your back on someone, signifying they don't matter. Let's turn out backs on this hateful person and not give him the satisfaction of being a media star.


Let's have our time of mourning and grief for those we've lost, but let's not give this hateful little **** any more attention.

Just some random comments here. MLKIII appeared on O'Reilly tonight and he and O'Reilly talked about not letting ourselves be divided the way we are being divided these days. There are those who wish for nothing more than for there to be division among the American brethren.

Megyn Kelly's policy is to not mention by name the Dylann Roofs once they've been apprehended, and she blurs out their images too. Over and over today the point has been made that Roof let one lady live because he planned to kill himself but wanted the world to know what he'd done.

Now he's in jail, and he's not ever going to get out. Maybe we can hope that there won't be books written or movies-for-TV made.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

YOu said: "Oh god, did you read your own source? The one you copied verbatim from Wiki?"
I didn't.
You then went on to try and defend your argument... copying verbatim from Wiki. :roll:

Yes, I pointed out that you used wikipedia and then ignored the parts which didn't fit your statement. You denied it, I pulled the exact sentence fragment which you copied up and showed you the parts of the page which simply contradicted your statements. You're still denying that you did it and making up some weird claim that I have a problem with people using Wikipedia. I don't. I simply pointed out your selective use of it. We'll get into that in a bit.

And you are wrong. Only 89% chance! Hey, and guess what, I was right! Neener.

Still going on nothing more than because you say so? Good.

Substance abuse psychosis is a mental illness.

I see reading comprehension really hasn't caught up yet.

You have conflated mental illness stats in a given year with mental illness stats over a lifetime. NAMI estimates that in any given year there are 61 million people who experience mentally illness (where you get your 20% from). Over a LIFETIME, however, your 45-81% number is not an astonishing number if you consider that it's not all the same 60 million people every year dealing with mental illness.

You have lost the topic in a "square isn't a rectangle" fashion. Homicidal Idceation is a disorder, and is a very common cause of admission to psychiatric treatment. We are discussing a murder who no doubt experienced Homicidal Ideation before he murdered 10 people. And, as the story unfolds he indeed appears to have had delirium and a drug induced psychosis.

First it's a mental illness, when you were called on that, it became a symptom, now it's back to being a disorder. It's almost like you have no clue what it is you're discussing and you're just making it up as you go. Here, I'll let you read it again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Homicidal_ideation

Homicidal ideation is a common medical term for thoughts about homicide. There is a range of homicidal thoughts which spans from vague ideas of revenge to detailed and fully formulated plans without the act itself.[1] Many people who have homicidal ideation do not commit homicide. 50-91% of people surveyed on university grounds in various places in the USA admit to having had a homicidal fantasy.[2] Homicidal ideation is common, accounting for 10-17% of patient presentations to psychiatric facilities in the USA.[1]

Homicidal ideation is not a disease itself, but may result from other illnesses such as psychosis and delirium. Psychosis, which accounts for 89% of admissions with homicidal ideation in one US study,[3] includes substance induced psychosis (e.g. amphetamine psychosis) and the psychoses related to schizophreniform disorder and schizophrenia. Delirium is often drug induced or secondary to general medical illness(es) (see ICD-10 Chapter V: Mental and behavioural disorders F05).

It doesn't matter how much you try and deny it jmotivator, it's not a mental illness. It can be caused by it, but not necessarily. The fact that you're still claiming what your own source denies is absolutely hilarious.

Sorry for the spoilers

Precisely. He was mentally ill.

Still pretending that your opinion on his views make him mentally ill? Good.

This is funny! Now that you have decided to use Wikipedia for your own argument you stopped accusing me of using Wikipedia! Such transparent hypocrisy from you is ... disappointing.

It's almost like you made up some weird claim that I was calling into question your use of wikipedia, and not your selective quoting skills. Spare me your emotions.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The main difference is that left wing terrorists in this country usually just attack property whereas right wing terrorists attack people.

And yet their crimes are equally dastardly, and they're all terrorists.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The main difference is that left wing terrorists in this country usually just attack property whereas right wing terrorists attack people.

so spiking trees so loggers get injured is attacking property? blowing up people as the uni-bomber did was property? I don't think your attempt to differentiate one species of asshole from another is particularly convincing
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

a counter argument to your OPINION that its the right wing that causes more terror: an opinion that was not backed up with any numbers or hard facts

or was it your OPINION that I didn't read your opinion where you tried to blame the right wing for all the terrorism in the USA and blame the RW for this killer before anyone has a clue what motivated him?

tell me why that requires any sort of rebuttal given it had no evidentiary support to begin with?

You're losing track of the discussion completely... That isn't the post you were responding to at all...

Nevermind man. You don't even bother to read anything anybody posts, you don't bother to think through a response to anything anybody says.. You just sit here and bleat out the same idiotic assumptions you had at the start of the day over and over for hours a day year after year. You never stop to think or listen. It's useless trying to talk with you. It's like trying to debate with a CD player that somebody stuck a Rush Limbaugh CD from the 90s in on loop.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Just some random comments here. MLKIII appeared on O'Reilly tonight and he and O'Reilly talked about not letting ourselves be divided the way we are being divided these days. There are those who wish for nothing more than for there to be division among the American brethren.

Megyn Kelly's policy is to not mention by name the Dylann Roofs once they've been apprehended, and she blurs out their images too. Over and over today the point has been made that Roof let one lady live because he planned to kill himself but wanted the world to know what he'd done.

Now he's in jail, and he's not ever going to get out. Maybe we can hope that there won't be books written or movies-for-TV made.


Agreed.

This incident is just so appalling on many levels. In and of itself it was just terrible. We haven't had anything like this happen in the state in some time, and this was just... words don't suffice.


But on another level, after that terrible police shooting (murder) in Charleston a few weeks ago, and now this... I'm hoping it doesn't have a major negative impact on race relations in my state.

We've come so far in the past couple decades. I remember how things were 30-40 years ago... and how they are today, with blacks and whites living and working side by side, with so much more acceptance for everyone in most places... white grandparents in their 70s walking around Walmart holding their mixed race grandchildren, you wouldn't have seen that 25 years ago. We've come so far, and we've been getting along so well... I don't want this to ruin it all, dammit.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Really!?

Why would it not be a hate crime if the church was white?

Does not all murder require hate?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes, really. When I made the comment it was before any facts had been established. So going with there where no facts, assuming a hate crime was premature at the time. Considering population aspects of Charleston and South Carolina in general. Charleston is 70% white, 25% Black, other 5% is Asian, Hispanic and "other". So right off the bat if you are black you have 25% chance of being a victim of a crime just as whites have 70% chance.

Murder doesn't require hate. Murder is a broad term for the act of taking someone's life. If we equate Murder to hate.. then every US Military personal, every Government employee and the 3 branches of Government are by your definition racist hate mongers as they commit and are accomplices to the act of murder if you or anybody rejects their "justification" for the action. Hence equating murder to hate is position which proves very tricky.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It's funny to see the right wingers here rambling on about "not letting a tragedy go to waste", and then going on rants about Obama and his wife, trying to insinuate that the racially motivated aspect of the shooting is somehow his fault.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

And yet their crimes are equally dastardly, and they're all terrorists.


Property damage vs mass murder. Does that really seem equal to you?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Agreed.

This incident is just so appalling on many levels. In and of itself it was just terrible. We haven't had anything like this happen in the state in some time, and this was just... words don't suffice.


But on another level, after that terrible police shooting (murder) in Charleston a few weeks ago, and now this... I'm hoping it doesn't have a major negative impact on race relations in my state.

We've come so far in the past couple decades. I remember how things were 30-40 years ago... and how they are today, with blacks and whites living and working side by side, with so much more acceptance for everyone in most places... white grandparents in their 70s walking around Walmart holding their mixed race grandchildren, you wouldn't have seen that 25 years ago. We've come so far, and we've been getting along so well... I don't want this to ruin it all, dammit.

Neither do I. Let's watch and see who continues to foment divisive trouble and who calls for all of us to come together--and stand together.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

If you are a white person, then you have the privilege to say that. You have the privilege of turning off the TV or staying away from news websites, and for you, the problem will go away.

Blacks do not have this privilege. Their lives are directly, negatively impacted by racism in media. So no, until that racism is acknowledged, addressed, and cure, then no, this issue is not going to go away.

I'm multi-racial, not that it matters. This whole country is falling victim to commercial media sensationalism. They're selling pitchforks and torches at a hell of a profit.

Well that is the million-dollar question! Why haven't they moved on from a time when we have been bombarded with messages, overt and covert, that blacks and Latinos are somehow "less than" whites, whether that comes to violence, money management, personal responsibility, or anything else?

This is rediculous, of course.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Property damage vs mass murder. Does that really seem equal to you?

that distinction has not been established as a fact
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It's funny to see the right wingers here rambling on about "not letting a tragedy go to waste", and then going on rants about Obama and his wife, trying to insinuate that the racially motivated aspect of the shooting is somehow his fault.

No, "right-wingers" haven't been rambling on about not letting a tragedy go to waste; I am the person who paraphrased the Alinsky quote. And I have not gone on a rant about either of the Obamas.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Property damage vs mass murder. Does that really seem equal to you?

Moot, why don't you provide us with a list of mass murderers and what their political leans were?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Moot, why don't you provide us with a list of mass murderers and what their political leans were?

as I recall, John Wayne Gacy (the basement dwellers fame) was a Democrat party official in Chicago. The zebra killer(s) were hardly conservatives either.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Agreed.

This incident is just so appalling on many levels. In and of itself it was just terrible. We haven't had anything like this happen in the state in some time, and this was just... words don't suffice.


But on another level, after that terrible police shooting (murder) in Charleston a few weeks ago, and now this... I'm hoping it doesn't have a major negative impact on race relations in my state.

We've come so far in the past couple decades. I remember how things were 30-40 years ago... and how they are today, with blacks and whites living and working side by side, with so much more acceptance for everyone in most places... white grandparents in their 70s walking around Walmart holding their mixed race grandchildren, you wouldn't have seen that 25 years ago. We've come so far, and we've been getting along so well... I don't want this to ruin it all, dammit.

I think most people realize that this is plain evil and does not represent all whites or all young people or all males.

I just want to know that if what being reported is the .45 caliber pistol was a birthday present from his father is true. If it was, why did he think the perfect gift for a 9th grade dropout without any desire to work and been arrested for possession of a controlled substance would be a gun?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I think most people realize that this is plain evil and does not represent all whites or all young people or all males.

I just want to know that if what being reported is the .45 caliber pistol was a birthday present from his father is true. If it was, why did he think the perfect gift for a 9th grade dropout without any desire to work and been arrested for possession of a controlled substance would be a gun?

sounds like the fruit didn't fall too far from the tree if that is true
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I think most people realize that this is plain evil and does not represent all whites or all young people or all males.

I just want to know that if what being reported is the .45 caliber pistol was a birthday present from his father is true. If it was, why did he think the perfect gift for a 9th grade dropout without any desire to work and been arrested for possession of a controlled substance would be a gun?


I'm just guessing, but right now I'm figuring the father for an idiot.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Well, at least we can all agree that this crime had nothing to do with guns and easy gun availability.

Nothing at all. Nope.

It's certainly not part of a larger pattern of nutbags getting access to deadly weapons easily.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Well, at least we can all agree that this crime had nothing to do with guns and easy gun availability.

Nothing at all. Nope.

It's certainly not part of a larger pattern of nutbags getting access to deadly weapons easily.

remind us of what law would have stopped that since you want to make this into a gun ban issue
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Well, at least we can all agree that this crime had nothing to do with guns and easy gun availability.

Nothing at all. Nope.

It's certainly not part of a larger pattern of nutbags getting access to deadly weapons easily.




Name any new gun control law that has been proposed in the past decade that would have actually prevented this.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Name any new gun control law that has been proposed in the past decade that would have actually prevented this.

Oh no.

We can't talk about this.

It's too early.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The main difference is that left wing terrorists in this country usually just attack property whereas right wing terrorists attack people.

Lefist terror groups such as the Black Panthers and SLA were willing to harm people.

The main difference is that leftist economics is a fundamentally flawed system. As a result, there is very little interest in leftist economic systems and the hard core leftist extremists cannot replace themselves. Most are now 60 plus years old and there are very few new Black Panthers and SLA types willing to continue the "struggle".

Meanwhile, right wing economics is not a failed system and there are many people interested in right wing economic theories. a small number turn to extremist groups. Right wing extremists can replace themselves- but only to degree (once there were tens of thousands of hard core KKK types. Today, there are probably only several hundred truly committed members). Thus, as there are more right wing terrorists out there, there is more right wing violence against individuals.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Name any new gun control law that has been proposed in the past decade that would have actually prevented this.

of course the answer is none. but the gun banners will hem and haw and try to smear gun owners and blame us for this yet again
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

so spiking trees so loggers get injured is attacking property? blowing up people as the uni-bomber did was property? I don't think your attempt to differentiate one species of asshole from another is particularly convincing


Really, and how many loggers have been injured and/or killed from tree spiking?


"...One injury possibly from tree spiking occurred in the United States in 1987. California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by either an old nail or a tree spike. This led many progressive Earth First! groups to denounce tree spiking.[1] Other activists[citation needed] were led to either reject this form of sabotage entirely, or take some precautions, such as putting warning signs in the area where the trees are being spiked. Tree spiking is condemned by opponents of eco-terrorism who claim it is potentially dangerous to loggers or mill-workers,[2] although only this one injury possibly resulting from tree spiking has been widely reported.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking


"...In fact, since 9/11 extremists affiliated with a variety of far-right wing ideologies, including white supremacists, anti-abortion extremists and anti-government militants, have killed more people in the United States than have extremists motivated by al Qaeda's ideology. According to a count by the New America Foundation, right wing extremists have killed 34 people in the United States for political reasons since 9/11. (The total includes the latest shootings in Kansas, which are being classified as a hate crime).

By contrast, terrorists motivated by al Qaeda's ideology have killed 21 people in the United States since 9/11.

(Although a variety of left wing militants and environmental extremists have carried out violent attacks for political reasons against property and individuals since 9/11, none have been linked to a lethal attack, according to research by the New America Foundation.)

Moreover, since 9/11 none of the more than 200 individuals indicted or convicted in the United States of some act of jihadist terrorism have acquired or used chemical or biological weapons or their precursor materials, while 13 individuals motivated by right wing extremist ideology, one individual motivated by left-wing extremist ideology, and two with idiosyncratic beliefs, used or acquired such weapons or their precursors...."

Opinion: In U.S., right wing extremists more deadly than jihadists - CNN.com


Like I said, leftwing terrorists usually just attack property and rightwing terrorists usually just attack people.
 
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