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'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

sangha said:
Colleges, like people, should be free to decide for themselves what they should do.
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College's are not people. They're institutions. Institutions which receives government money. Also college's is not law enforcement. They should not be handling ANY investigations into possible criminal acts.
 
Lutherf said:
So he's the one that got raped?
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From what I've read on the case, yes. However Amherst apparently subscribes to "dudes can't be raped," philosophy so technically no.

Honestly, my opinion, he should win a lawsuit just for that bit of hypocrisy (may be using that wrong) by Amherst, let alone the other things he brought up.

EDIT: I had missed before, or they didn't have it, the dorm councilors response to the girl. The hell kind of advice is that? When you do something stupid, just blame it on someone else!
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
I can see the point kinda went over your heads. My point was the article makes it sound like the beginning is here to start locking people up left and right without convictions or without enough evidence. But thats not true as presented by the data...
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Hahaha, don't flatter yourself.
 
Kal'Stang said:
College's are not people. They're institutions. Institutions which receives government money. Also college's is not law enforcement. They should not be handling ANY investigations into possible criminal acts.
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I clearly distinguished colleges from people and so what if they're institutions? It's never been the case that institutions like businesses and colleges have no right to decide on how they're operated. Also, a college investigating accusations of rape does not preclude the police from investigating it. However, I do think colleges should be required to report all reports of sexual assault to the police
 
sangha said:
I clearly distinguished colleges from people and so what if they're institutions? It's never been the case that institutions like businesses and colleges have no right to decide on how they're operated. Also, a college investigating accusations of rape does not preclude the police from investigating it. However, I do think colleges should be required to report all reports of sexual assault to the police
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This isn't about how they operate. It's about discrimination. If he did nothing wrong according to the evidence then they have no evidence that he broke their code of misconduct. Which means that they expelled him simply for being male.
 
Kal'Stang said:
This isn't about how they operate. It's about discrimination. If he did nothing wrong according to the evidence then they have no evidence that he broke their code of misconduct. Which means that they expelled him simply for being male.
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AFAIK, there is no claim of discrimination. It's about due process.

And while it may not have been rape, that doesn't mean the accused did nothing wrong.
 
sangha said:
AFAIK, there is no claim of discrimination. It's about due process.
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The OP's article is about due process. The people that have been expelled due to such policies on the other hand may feel differently.

sangha said:
And while it may not have been rape, that doesn't mean the accused did nothing wrong.
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Without evidence of such, yes it does mean he did nothing wrong.
 
Kal'Stang said:
The OP's article is about due process. The people that have been expelled due to such policies on the other hand may feel differently.
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AFAIK, and I could be wrong, every one of these lawsuits are based on due process and none are based on discrimination. WRT how they feel, I don't give a crap how they feel.


Without evidence of such, yes it does mean he did nothing wrong.
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The absence of rape does not mean there was no evidence of any misconduct.
 
sangha said:
The absence of rape does not mean there was no evidence of any misconduct.
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If there was evidence of misconduct then I'm pretty sure that the college's in question would be showing it in order to vindicate themselves.
 
Kal'Stang said:
If there was evidence of misconduct then I'm pretty sure that the college's in question would be showing it in order to vindicate themselves.
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the law prohibits the school from releasing information to the public
 
sangha said:
the law prohibits the school from releasing information to the public
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Yes it does. However a general statement by them that there was evidence of other types of misconduct and that was the reason that they expelled him would get them around that law. Those laws afaik apply to specifics. Not generalities.
 
sangha said:
The topic is college disciplinary actions and they can be whatever the college wants them to be.
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Subject to civil actions for libel if the student insists they got it wrong.
 
Kreton said:
So you support colleges expelling students who are accused of misconduct?
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If they broke the college's rules, yes.

Gaius46 said:
Subject to civil actions for libel if the student insists they got it wrong.
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I believe it takes more than "they got it wrong" to win a civil action. The plaintiff has to show that they were libelled in order to win a libel suit. Anyway, I don't think this suit is a libel suit.
 
sangha said:
Amherst *has* issued a general statement.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html#
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That he was expelled due to sexual misconduct. Of which there is no evidence of. In fact text's by the accuser to the college counselor and the texts between the accuser and another male show the exact opposite. Which means your assumption in your post 59 is wrong. There is no evidence of misconduct relating to what the school says they expelled him for.
 
Kreton said:
Not if they broke them, if they are accused. Do you support colleges expelling students based on accusations?
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I've seen no evidence that anyone has ever been expelled based solely on an accusation so your question is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
 
Kal'Stang said:
That he was expelled due to sexual misconduct. Of which there is no evidence of. In fact text's by the accuser to the college counselor and the texts between the accuser and another male show the exact opposite. Which means your assumption in your post 59 is wrong. There is no evidence of misconduct relating to what the school says they expelled him for.
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There is evidence of sexual misconduct. The texts you refer to suggest it may not have been rape, but that doesn't mean the accussed did not engage in sexual misconduct. Also, the texts do not show the exact opposite and they weren't provided to the college before the student was expelled
 
sangha said:
I've seen no evidence that anyone has ever been expelled based solely on an accusation so your question is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
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Just an idea, but maybe you could answer the question. And if it was more than an accusation, do please enlighten me of what you know for a fact this kid did wrong.
 
sangha said:
There is evidence of sexual misconduct. The texts you refer to suggest it may not have been rape, but that doesn't mean the accussed did not engage in sexual misconduct. Also, the texts do not show the exact opposite and they weren't provided to the college before the student was expelled
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Where's the evidence then? The woman's say so? Because that is the only "evidence" that we've seen to date. In fact it is the only "evidence" that is possible since everyone is agreed (including the accuser) the whole encounter started out as consensual.

And the reason that the texts weren't provided to the college is because they didn't fully investigate. (which is why it should have been left up to the cops)
 
Kreton said:
Just an idea, but maybe you could answer the question.
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I'm not going to answer that question because it has nothing to do with this thread

And if it was more than an accusation, do please enlighten me of what you know for a fact this kid did wrong.
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I did not say that the expelled student did anything wrong.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Where's the evidence then? The woman's say so? Because that is the only "evidence" that we've seen to date. In fact it is the only "evidence" that is possible since everyone is agreed (including the accuser) the whole encounter started out as consensual.

And the reason that the texts weren't provided to the college is because they didn't fully investigate. (which is why it should have been left up to the cops)
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There was more evidence, some of which is detailed in the article I linked to. I'm not going to read it to you. AFAIK, there was nothing preventing the accused from providing those texts to the school. The failure to do so was his.
 
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