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121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

The Washington Times is a right-wing propaganda sheet.

I won't be wasting any time there.


"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen."
~ Tommy Smothers

Who had ad-hominem second post in? Who won the raffle?
 
This monstrous story buried by the networks. Instead they focus on TWO escaped convicts in new york.

in some of our SW states, the majority or a substantial minority of those sentenced to federal prisons are illegals
 
Not accused - convicted. These were convicted criminals that the administration decided to release anyway.

Just quoting from the Moonie Times:

More than 100 immigrants whom the Obama administration released back into the community went on to be charged with subsequent killings, according to government data released Monday that raises more questions about whether immigration authorities are doing enough to detail illegal immigrants awaiting deportation.

I don't see any discussion of them being convicted criminals or what they were convicted of? Jaywalking? If you know something I don't, you click on the link and deal with your computer crashing.

:doh fail. So ICE is incapable of, oh, say, I don't know, handing them back over to the Justice System?

They served their sentences under the "Justice System." What do you suggest? That the justice system keep them for life if their sentence is 10 years?

I'm just quoting links you guys are presenting. The Moonie Times says "thousands" are released every year under the SC ruling because countries won't accept the former prisoners. What do we do with them - build some more prisons at GITMO for those folks? I'm open to suggestions!
 
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Who had ad-hominem second post in? Who won the raffle?

Well, I won't waste time there because the site corrupts my computer, sends up pop up after pop up and I usually have to reboot afterwards - at the very least close out my browser (what I had to do today). I don't know why anyone voluntarily clicks on that site.
 
From the OP's article: "...33 of those were ordered released by immigration courts and another 24 were released because of a 2001 Supreme Court decision capping the time an immigrant can be detained to six months..."

That leaves 64 released by ICE at their discretion, or 16 per year.

"..All told, 121 immigrants who were held but eventually released by ICE went on to commit “homicide-related offenses”.."

The term “homicide-related offenses” suggests that some of those counted were not actually murderers, but were involved in a crime related to a murder.

Note that the detention facilities are all full, requiring prioritization of who is detained.

“..."When making custody determinations, ICE performs an individualized review of the individual’s immigration history and criminal history, pursuant to the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA),” the agency said. “In accordance with the requirements of the INA, not all criminals are subject to mandatory detention and thus may be eligible for bond.”

Detention cannot be used as a further punishment for their crimes or for being in the country illegally, but rather must be used as a tool for further deportation.

Still, ICE stiffened its policies this year, insisting that a supervisor approve cases when the agency plans to release immigrants with serious criminal records..."

In other words, you can't blame Obama for the entire situation.
 
This monstrous story buried by the networks. Instead they focus on TWO escaped convicts in new york.

The Media doesn't give a damn about a million or more killed by the Iraq war by GWBush, nor the many thousands killed in Libya by Obama, so what makes you think they'd give a rat's ass about another 121 or so dead bodies. Wait, wait, it's coming to me. "Kill one person and it's murder. Kill a million and it's politics."
 
I don't believe that it's hyperbole or exaggeration to say that the USA can't arrest and lock up12 million illegal immigrants at one time, so another solution will have to be found.

You you have an answer?

Actually it's 40 million and they would self-deport if we stopped giving them welfare and free health care and free k-12 for their kids. Next question.
 
Well, OK so you do want a Berlin Wall. Great. And we'll have to search all truck traffic and the trunks of all cars and ships and boats, etc. Sounds doable to me, and then we can get illegal immigration to zero and ISIS isn't a threat.

How many times must we explain this.? Stop giving them jobs and freebies and the illegals will leave.
 
From the OP's article: "...33 of those were ordered released by immigration courts and another 24 were released because of a 2001 Supreme Court decision capping the time an immigrant can be detained to six months..."

.

The constitution says only congress can write laws. Not the supreme court.
 
How many times must we explain this.? Stop giving them jobs and freebies and the illegals will leave.

You'll need to talk to a bunch of GOP business owners, the Chamber, etc. to stop the jobs flow. They seem to like paying low wages for dependable work.

BTW, it's not the freebies. The net inflow of illegals since Obama took over is ZERO (negative actually). The reason is the jobs depression. If they came for freebies, we'd have seen the same net +500,000 per YEAR (not quite +4 million total) that crossed over during the Bush administration.
 
Trump said they don't send their best. But everyone freaked out and called him a bigot.
 
You'll need to talk to a bunch of GOP business owners, the Chamber, etc. to stop the jobs flow. They seem to like paying low wages for dependable work.
You'll need to talk to Democrat politicians, who want them here so they can stack the vote for Democrats going forward - it's the future plan to dominate American politics with Progressive ideals.

BTW, it's not the freebies. The net inflow of illegals since Obama took over is ZERO (negative actually). The reason is the jobs depression. If they came for freebies, we'd have seen the same net +500,000 per YEAR (not quite +4 million total) that crossed over during the Bush administration.
You couldn't be more wrong. The promise of citizenship without all the hassles of actual waiting, the promise of hundreds of state and federal aid programs, housing, food, and an instant uptick in "the poor" without all the suffering as well as continuing the narrative that Conservatives are "racists" if they don't support illegals staying in the country and getting all the freebies.
 
Actually it's 40 million and they would self-deport if we stopped giving them welfare and free health care and free k-12 for their kids. Next question.

40 million people here illegally? Where did you get that figure? Stormfront or WND?

And you're right, if the parents bring kids over, or have them while they're here, f**k the kids. If the kiddies get sick, we really should just let them die, keep the population down, and those kids sure don't need any education. After all, they can steal or sell drugs for a living if they can't work a job when they grow up. Excellent points all around on this subject!
 
You'll need to talk to Democrat politicians, who want them here so they can stack the vote for Democrats going forward - it's the future plan to dominate American politics with Progressive ideals.

I think you mean Democratic politicians, but there's a good reason Reagan signed the only amnesty in my adult lifetime and Bush tried like heck for another one, and why during the Bush administration about +4 million illegals crossed over. The Chamber boys love immigration, illegal or otherwise, and they're big donors to the GOPers. Keeps wages low, the labor is dependable and disposable and doesn't complain because if they do they can be deported.

If you want to say that it's a bipartisan thing, fine, but what you can't do is point to any evidence the GOP has any real interest in shutting off the flow of illegals. There just doesn't exist any - at least not at the upper levels. There is some grassroots opposition, but that doesn't translate to actual policy.

You couldn't be more wrong. The promise of citizenship without all the hassles of actual waiting, the promise of hundreds of state and federal aid programs, housing, food, and an instant uptick in "the poor" without all the suffering as well as continuing the narrative that Conservatives are "racists" if they don't support illegals staying in the country and getting all the freebies.

I've posted the stats a few dozen times. Since Obama took over the net flow is ZERO. In the eight years prior, about +4,000,000. If you want to say it's the freebies, and the rest, why did it STOP with the recession? Maybe it's that Obama did a better job of controlling the border than Bush? OK, I can go with that if you will.

pew-illegal-immigration-2010.gif
 
Trump said they don't send their best. But everyone freaked out and called him a bigot.

I'm not sure he's a bigot, but he is an idiot. When has the U.S. ever got the "best" from another country. If they were doing great in their homeland, why would our ancestors have abandoned it all and came here? We've always welcomed people who had no opportunity in their home country and came here. The only difference is most of our ancestors were poor and white and the one's Trump's complaining about are Hispanic.

If you were in Mexico and poor and had a family, what would you do? Stay there where you know there is little hope for a better future, or walk over and take one of the millions of jobs that WELCOME undocumented labor, and give your family a shot at a better life? It's either stupid or bigoted to insult those people who I HOPE I'd emulate if I was in their shoes.
 
I'm not sure he's a bigot, but he is an idiot. When has the U.S. ever got the "best" from another country. If they were doing great in their homeland, why would our ancestors have abandoned it all and came here? We've always welcomed people who had no opportunity in their home country and came here. The only difference is most of our ancestors were poor and white and the one's Trump's complaining about are Hispanic.

If you were in Mexico and poor and had a family, what would you do? Stay there where you know there is little hope for a better future, or walk over and take one of the millions of jobs that WELCOME undocumented labor, and give your family a shot at a better life? It's either stupid or bigoted to insult those people who I HOPE I'd emulate if I was in their shoes.
Really have to ask that? How old are you? I guess you don't know many people from the old countries like Italy, Germany, Ireland, England that came here in the late 1800s through 1920s and made this nation great.
 
I think you mean Democratic politicians, but there's a good reason Reagan signed the only amnesty in my adult lifetime and Bush tried like heck for another one, and why during the Bush administration about +4 million illegals crossed over. The Chamber boys love immigration, illegal or otherwise, and they're big donors to the GOPers. Keeps wages low, the labor is dependable and disposable and doesn't complain because if they do they can be deported.
The fat cat 1% Democrats love it too, they're creating sanctuary cities all over the place and the federal government is giving free undisclosed bus rides to all the illegals that came across the border last year, to cities who were not told. They LOVE illegals, and if Progressives get their way, they'll bypass the Constitution to give citizen's rights to illegals in this country.

If you want to say that it's a bipartisan thing, fine, but what you can't do is point to any evidence the GOP has any real interest in shutting off the flow of illegals. There just doesn't exist any - at least not at the upper levels. There is some grassroots opposition, but that doesn't translate to actual policy.
Sure it's bipartisan - but for totally different reasons. Progressives want a political dynasty on the backs of illegals .... business (from both sides of the political aisle) want cheap labor.

I've posted the stats a few dozen times. Since Obama took over the net flow is ZERO. In the eight years prior, about +4,000,000. If you want to say it's the freebies, and the rest, why did it STOP with the recession? Maybe it's that Obama did a better job of controlling the border than Bush? OK, I can go with that if you will.
Stats and studies are relatively meaningless .... you can make stats say anything you want, and everyone from every point of view hires companies to publish studies that tell the story they want to promote.

One of my favorite books.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics
 
Really have to ask that? How old are you? I guess you don't know many people from the old countries like Italy, Germany, Ireland, England that came here in the late 1800s through 1920s and made this nation great.

What I know is almost none of them were the "best" from those countries. Give me a break. Most of them came here with NOTHING, and they came here for the same reason Hispanics come here - for the opportunities this country offers them and their families.

And, again, what would YOU do in their shoes. Stay in a crap country run by thugs and drug kingpins that offers you and your family almost no opportunity, or walk across the border and overnight provide yourself and your family with FAR more opportunities for a better life? I know what I HOPE I'd do - take the employers here up on their offer for (comparably) great jobs and a better life for my family.

I'm not trying to insult the immigrants you speak of, but the point is there is really little or no difference between the vast majority of all of our ancestors and the Hispanics coming here today.
 
The fat cat 1% Democrats love it too, they're creating sanctuary cities all over the place and the federal government is giving free undisclosed bus rides to all the illegals that came across the border last year, to cities who were not told. They LOVE illegals, and if Progressives get their way, they'll bypass the Constitution to give citizen's rights to illegals in this country.

Well, what did the Federal government do with the 500,000 per year that came in the Bush administration. Probably harder to get them settled than the NET ZERO since 2008.

Sure it's bipartisan - but for totally different reasons. Progressives want a political dynasty on the backs of illegals .... business (from both sides of the political aisle) want cheap labor.

OK, fine, but the draw is the jobs. When the GOP ever gets power and cracks down on their employer buddies giving them big checks, I'll take this BS seriously about opposing illegal immigration from republicans. They like to say the right words to appease the base, then find all kinds of reasons why nothing gets done.

Stats and studies are relatively meaningless .... you can make stats say anything you want, and everyone from every point of view hires companies to publish studies that tell the story they want to promote.

One of my favorite books.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics

LOL, the evidence doesn't confirm your biases so you reject the evidence. Hilarious.

If you want to reject Pew and at least a half dozen other surveys that attempt to measure the illegal population and which all show the same general trends, and have no alternative evidence to present, all you're saying is you don't care about facts, you have your opinions and you're sticking to them no matter how much they conflict with those facts.
 
Well, what did the Federal government do with the 500,000 per year that came in the Bush administration. Probably harder to get them settled than the NET ZERO since 2008.
History is always good to reflect on, but it's 7 years later. Why do the Democrats want to pass the NY is Home bill in NY, or give healthcare to illegals for free as part of immigration reform if they aren't bypassing the Constitution? Joe Wilson was right. Why has Obama's INS let 60+ thousand illegals free from US jails and calls them "dreamers" if not to stack the vote for Progressives in the future?

See this is happening now - not 7 years ago.

OK, fine, but the draw is the jobs.
No, the biggest draw is freebies - anchor children, welfare, housing, SNAP cards --- just make sure you vote DEMOCRAT when you want to keep all that stuff. Wink wink.


LOL, the evidence doesn't confirm your biases so you reject the evidence. Hilarious.
Easily manipulated evidence you swallow hook line and sinker because it confirms your bias is okay, but when someone questions it.... here's a study that says eating dirt is good for you, and it actually has a name - geophagy.

Eating Dirt Health Benefits - Study on Geophagy

I'm sure you'll be scooping up some front lawn and chowing down because the study says so. :lamo

If you want to reject Pew and at least a half dozen other surveys that attempt to measure the illegal population and which all show the same general trends, and have no alternative evidence to present, all you're saying is you don't care about facts, you have your opinions and you're sticking to them no matter how much they conflict with those facts.
Polls are a snapshot in time and many times the snapshot methodology isn't provided or is biased in it's questions. Like I said, you want to swallow whatever confirms your biases but when someone questions it, you get offended. :shrug:
 
What I know is almost none of them were the "best" from those countries. Give me a break. Most of them came here with NOTHING, and they came here for the same reason Hispanics come here - for the opportunities this country offers them and their families.

And, again, what would YOU do in their shoes. Stay in a crap country run by thugs and drug kingpins that offers you and your family almost no opportunity, or walk across the border and overnight provide yourself and your family with FAR more opportunities for a better life? I know what I HOPE I'd do - take the employers here up on their offer for (comparably) great jobs and a better life for my family.

I'm not trying to insult the immigrants you speak of, but the point is there is really little or no difference between the vast majority of all of our ancestors and the Hispanics coming here today.
What would "I" do?. I would do what my grand parents did. Work. Raise a family that works, owns businesses, graduates from college, serves our nations armed forces and instills its values to next generations.
 
40 million people here illegally? Where did you get that figure? Stormfront or WND?

And you're right, if the parents bring kids over, or have them while they're here, f**k the kids. If the kiddies get sick, we really should just let them die, keep the population down, and those kids sure don't need any education. After all, they can steal or sell drugs for a living if they can't work a job when they grow up. Excellent points all around on this subject!

You don't seem to understand what a tremendous burden those who are here illegally put on the education and healthcare systems. This is because you don't live in a border state. Easy for you to sit in Tennessee and indulge yourself in hyperbole.
 
If you read the story, in fact almost all of them were released directly consistent with our laws. Many were released because of the SC ruling in 2001, and the rest were released because we don't have the facilities to hold them all in detention for the time it takes for the cases to legally work through the process. The story pointed out ONE person who clearly was a bad mistake.

And the bottom line is our justice system releases criminals into the streets every hour of every day - thousands of them, out on bail, parole, who go on to commit horrible crimes. It's a risk we know about and we accept because the alternatives are worse. If there is a better alternative for non-violent illegals, then someone should suggest it. Berlin Wall to cut off illegal immigration, a few hundred more prisons, overruling the SC? Not sure what it would take to take the risk of released illegals to zero.

That's why this thread is about eh laws that allowed them to be released. We have some bad laws/policies in place that need to be changed to stop allowing this kind of thing to happen. We have the opportunity to remove some "undesirables" from our society in the same manner that most nations do and we are failing to do so. The story highlighted one person, but the problem of released illegal immigrants committing additional crimes after their release is well documented and fairly frequent.

Just because the problem exists in other areas is NOT justification for allowing it this area. In the case of illegal immigrants, if they are here illegally, then the basic standard for dealing them is to send them back to their nation of origin ASAP. That's the MINIMUM that should happen. Just releasing them is STUPID, regardless of whether they have committed any other crimes or not. If you are here illegally and you get arrested for it, then you should be returned to your nation of origin as soon as you have been convicted of this crime.
 
History is always good to reflect on, but it's 7 years later. Why do the Democrats want to pass the NY is Home bill in NY, or give healthcare to illegals for free as part of immigration reform if they aren't bypassing the Constitution? Joe Wilson was right. Why has Obama's INS let 60+ thousand illegals free from US jails and calls them "dreamers" if not to stack the vote for Progressives in the future?

Are you being deliberately wrong? The link was to debate on a bill that addresses LEGAL immigrants. What do you expect? They're made legal immigrants, but can't have access to services provided to other LEGAL immigrants?

And the Dream Act excludes convicted criminals, so that's wrong. You're O for 2 so far.

See this is happening now - not 7 years ago.

No, the biggest draw is freebies - anchor children, welfare, housing, SNAP cards --- just make sure you vote DEMOCRAT when you want to keep all that stuff. Wink wink.

So why did illegal immigration go negative during the recession?

Easily manipulated evidence you swallow hook line and sinker because it confirms your bias is okay, but when someone questions it....

OK, you don't like Pew. How about the Census: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ill_pe_2011.pdf

If you've got other evidence, feel free to provide it, but burying your head in the sand and saying "I CAN'T HEAR YOU! NANANANANANANNA" isn't actually a legitimate argument.

Polls are a snapshot in time and many times the snapshot methodology isn't provided or is biased in it's questions. Like I said, you want to swallow whatever confirms your biases but when someone questions it, you get offended. :shrug:

I'm not offended at all. I'm just a person who tries to make decisions based on the best data and evidence available. If you have any actual evidence I'd love to see it.
 
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