• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US teacher raped in South Africa.

A rather unfortunate use of spelling in the OP, considering the seriousness of the subject matter. Guess the frat boys are out for the summer.
 
I have no idea what point you are trying to make or why you are debating me. I said that South Africa is one of the most violent countries on Earth and that Apartheid is the reason that there are untold millions living in extreme poor and in violent conditions. Just a fact.

How can you be sure that Apartheid is responsible for the high rates of violence?

True, many countries are just as poor and have far less violent crime, but that's not proof.
 
How can you be sure that Apartheid is responsible for the high rates of violence?

True, many countries are just as poor and have far less violent crime, but that's not proof.

I doubt that there is any way to tell why... I just know many South Africans and what they described then and now makes me thin that is the cause.
 
Greetings, cpwill. :2wave:

Thanks for the update. :thumbs: I should have remembered that!

Yes... you should have. Aren't you now supremely ashamed!?
 
South Africa is violent, one of the most violent countries in the world.

But you know what the most damning thing of all is... the reason she got raped?

We can debate it all we want but because of the pervasive nature of crime in South Africa, the basic fact is... she was unlucky.

That's it.

She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

In South Africa we have a sort of saying about crime.

"It doesn't happen to you, til it happens to you".
 
Yes... you should have. Aren't you now supremely ashamed!?

Greetings, Bodhisattva. :2wave:

And properly contrite! Bubba will probably take some more likes away from me as punishment anyway, darn his hide! He's such a stickler for details! :lamo:
 
South Africa is nowhere you want to be anymore. The crime rate has skyrocketed.

It's pretty much like the rest of Africa now.

Youre implying it was heaven under Apartheid?
 
Studies conducted by South Africa's Medical Research Council have shown that something like 25% of South African men have committed rape and 50% of those have raped more than once.

I want a source for this. Those numbers are too ridiculous.
 
Last edited:
Nearly one in five women are raped in their lifetime in the US. That's about 23 million women. Sad to learn that South Africa is worse. I had such high hopes for that country. I hear they have a great airport though.

Nearly 1 In 5 Women Are Raped In Their Lifetimes, Says Report

meh I don't buy that study, for several reasons, one the numbers are too high to be reasonable. in fact the US Bureau of Justice Statistics, operated by the department of Justice and which is considered the standard for estimates of unreported violent crime, cites a much lower number, 1 in 54 women.

they tally their total count for 2010 of rape and sexual assault, including estimates of unreported, to be less then 300,000

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf
 
She went there to teach them and how do they thank her? WTF Welcum to the New South Africa :D
IOLMobile

South Africa, once known as the bread basket of Africa, then ‘The Rainbow Nation’ and then this.

1.jpg 2.jpg
Replace apartheid with this and then wonder what went wrong. How about a bit of regime change or invasion here, or is that politically incorrect?
 
meh I don't buy that study, for several reasons, one the numbers are too high to be reasonable. in fact the US Bureau of Justice Statistics, operated by the department of Justice and which is considered the standard for estimates of unreported violent crime, cites a much lower number, 1 in 54 women.

they tally their total count for 2010 of rape and sexual assault, including estimates of unreported, to be less then 300,000

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf


"...in their lifetime." That could mean five years ago or ten years from now.
 
"...in their lifetime." That could mean five years ago or ten years from now.

still, the numbers are too small for that to ever come up to one in five.

the numbers i cited in the BJS report weren't even the total number of completed rapes, that included their estimates for threats and attempted too.

they also found (surprise surprise) the two demographic groups with the highest rate were the age groups of 12 to 17 and 17 to 34. once that window is over odds go down to near nothing. so the 15 years of data from BJS when totaled, is pretty complete. when you total their total counts, and then divide the number of women by those counts over the last 15 years, we see one in 31. thats one in 31 too many, but it's no where near the one in 5 number cited.

the CDC study has another issue, over two thirds of their rape numbers come from the category of drunk or drugged, but how they phrase the survey questions is so shoddy, that they're getting overreported in that category, where someone will tell the researcher they had sexual intercourse while drunk, and the researcher will mark that as a rape, even if the person being surveyed considers it consensual or it doesn't meet the definition of rape is a legal sense. the BJS on the other hand, catergorizes assaults based on a legal definition of rape and is part of surveys that first ask the surveyee if they consider themselves the victim of a crime.

this is an important distinction, what happens when you start throwing out ridicolously high or inflated numbers, and people don't believe them (which I don't think many outside the extreme feminist in Oberlin College community actually believes that number) they'll start tuning those numbers out, which is bad, because if publishing those high numbers backfires, less attention will be paid to many very real victims.
 
still, the numbers are too small for that to ever come up to one in five.

the numbers i cited in the BJS report weren't even the total number of completed rapes, that included their estimates for threats and attempted too.

they also found (surprise surprise) the two demographic groups with the highest rate were the age groups of 12 to 17 and 17 to 34. once that window is over odds go down to near nothing. so the 15 years of data from BJS when totaled, is pretty complete. when you total their total counts, and then divide the number of women by those counts over the last 15 years, we see one in 31. thats one in 31 too many, but it's no where near the one in 5 number cited.

the CDC study has another issue, over two thirds of their rape numbers come from the category of drunk or drugged, but how they phrase the survey questions is so shoddy, that they're getting overreported in that category, where someone will tell the researcher they had sexual intercourse while drunk, and the researcher will mark that as a rape, even if the person being surveyed considers it consensual or it doesn't meet the definition of rape is a legal sense. the BJS on the other hand, catergorizes assaults based on a legal definition of rape and is part of surveys that first ask the surveyee if they consider themselves the victim of a crime.

this is an important distinction, what happens when you start throwing out ridicolously high or inflated numbers, and people don't believe them (which I don't think many outside the extreme feminist in Oberlin College community actually believes that number) they'll start tuning those numbers out, which is bad, because if publishing those high numbers backfires, less attention will be paid to many very real victims.

How do you know the CDC study asked shoddy questions or counted drunk consensual sex as rape? Non consensual sex while drunk implies the person is incapacitated or unable to consent which is a legal definition of rape.
 
How do you know the CDC study asked shoddy questions or counted drunk consensual sex as rape? Non consensual sex while drunk implies the person is incapacitated or unable to consent which is a legal definition of rape.
Because their questionnaire is publically available.

Yes sex with someone who is incapacitated (ie passed out drunk) or who is drugged with sedatives is a legal definition of rape, sex with someone who is impaired but responsive May or may not be depending upon circumstances and state law.

But CDCs study presupposes that sex while impaired is rape.

What's funny is that the CDC study shows men reporting being forced to have sex with women at similar rates to women claiming they were raped by men, we know right away that's totally bogus, which tells me to ignore it and look at a better study

The question is, if the one in five rate is false (and I argue it is) does it truly help victims of this crime to trumpet phony numbers?

It's like I fear the phony stories by both Lena Dunham and Rolling Stone have substantially hurt real victims of rape because it gives the impression that most victims lie. And that's the real damage building a case on a bad foundation can cause
 
That is not asking for it. It is not the fault of rape victims that rape happens, but rather the fault of rapists.

I'm not going to play semantic games here.

This woman's complete and total lack of common sense, situational awareness, and any kind of regard for her own safety and well-being contributed directly to her rape.

At the end of the day each individual is responsible for his or her own safety and this woman took absolutely no responsibility for herself.

In South Africa women should expect that someone will attempt to rape them under any and all circumstances and should always be aware of their surroundings and considering what they can do "right now" to mitigate the tremendous risk they face.

I agree with you that it's not her "fault", but she served herself up on a silver platter.

Her attackers have been caught and I don't think that this woman's bone-jarring stupidity should serve as any kind of mitigation in respect to their crimes.

But at the end of the day she has still been gang raped and her blasé attitude is at least partly responsible for the fact that she'll have to live with that for the rest of her life.
 
yes they are lawless both in USA and in SA

I have good friends from both Victoria and Johannesburg. They tell me at night you generally stay home if you can, and you never leave your car door unlocked at stop lights. They say people will just walk up and try to open your car door.

They say the crime rates have almost quadrupled in the past 20 years.
 
I'm not going to play semantic games here.

This woman's complete and total lack of common sense, situational awareness, and any kind of regard for her own safety and well-being contributed directly to her rape.

At the end of the day each individual is responsible for his or her own safety and this woman took absolutely no responsibility for herself.

In South Africa women should expect that someone will attempt to rape them under any and all circumstances and should always be aware of their surroundings and considering what they can do "right now" to mitigate the tremendous risk they face.

I agree with you that it's not her "fault", but she served herself up on a silver platter.

Her attackers have been caught and I don't think that this woman's bone-jarring stupidity should serve as any kind of mitigation in respect to their crimes.

But at the end of the day she has still been gang raped and her blasé attitude is at least partly responsible for the fact that she'll have to live with that for the rest of her life.


It is not a game of semantics. By blaming the woman and saying that she was asking for it or bought it on herself, you are saying that she was responsible for the rape rather than the rapists.
 
Back
Top Bottom