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Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6

Libertie76 said:
Maybe if we didn't prosecute people for coming clean on governments unlawful acts the Russians and Chinese would of never seized the files
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Exactly.
 
For every action there is a reaction, maybe equal and opposite too.
 
I find this dubious... the only source is MI6, one of those caught with their pants down by Snowdon.
 
Excon said:
Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6

Downing Street believes that Russian and Chinese intelligence agencies have used documents from whistleblower Edward Snowden to identify British and US secret agents, according to a report in the Sunday Times.

The newspaper says MI6, Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, has withdrawn agents from overseas operations because Russian security services had broken into encrypted files held by American computer analyst Snowden.

[...]​
​
Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6​


This person is not a hero.
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This solidifies the fact that Snowden is a ****ing traitor.
 
LowDown said:
Snowden didn't even try to go through channels.
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Snowden Was a contractor and not a government employee. Therefor he would not be afforded whistleblower protections.
 
Anonymous sources from the CIA are now coming forward and claiming that Snowden is the anti-christ and is personally responsible for spreading Ebola, the California drought, and setting prisoners in New York free.
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Omg! Snowden is such a traitor! This information is coming from the government on the Internet; the two most trusted news sources combined. It mus be true!!!!
 
Roadvirus said:
This solidifies the fact that Snowden is a ****ing traitor.
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As well as the fact that government excess and constitutional violations are supported by the fringe right.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Did they withdraw them?
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The article clearly said "has withdrawn".


Manc Skipper said:
One of the glaring lies in the Sunday Times confection is that Snowden headed to Moscow.
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The provided article clearly indicated "He fled to Hong Kong, then to Moscow".


Manc Skipper said:
He was actually in transit to Latin America, when the US pulled his passport, preventing his onward travel.
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:doh
Lame.
He was in flight and ended up fleeing to Moscow.




Occam's Razor said:
Right... And there are no other valid or plausible scenarios?
Please tell me when a secretive government agency has ever voluntarily released information that wasn't selling you one thing while serving other antithetical means or purposes?

Add to the mix that China has been on a hacking rampage of late....

Why would they tip off our enemies we're spying on to look for an exodus of British nationals? Again, not one named source. Carefully couched wording like "believes"

Anyone buying such tripe after a century of examples of intelligence types using public passion to accomplish covert primary objectives, is abdicating their responsibility to remain always skeptical and vigilant of what their gov't tells them or does.

But... If you want to reveal yourself is a gullible gov't toady..... Shrugs
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:doh
Such tripe.
The article clearly indicated the withdrawing was past tense.
So it would not have been a tipping off of anything and only an acknowledgement of their having decrypted the files.




Libertie76 said:
Maybe if we didn't prosecute people for coming clean on governments unlawful acts the Russians and Chinese would of never seized the files
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There is a way to expose unlawful acts. He chose an illegal route and exposed legal acts as well as jeopardized our assests and legal collection efforts.
 
OrphanSlug said:
What a bunch of bull****.
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Yes, that is exactly what you provided is.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
He is not a hero.


OrphanSlug said:
Without Snowden we would not even be talking about the NSA's bulk data collection program, we would not be talking about the presence of a secret court where the government obtains authorization without any sense of 4th Amendment protections for the individual, and we would also not be talking about how far our government agencies would be willing to go to spy on our on citizens and the governments of our allies.
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1. Don't care what they collected or if people are talking about it. This is about the wrongness of Snowden's actions.
2. Talking about the other things you mentioned has always been done. Also irrelevant to the fact of his wrongful actions.
3. Don't care what government they spied on. It is what Governments should and will continue to do. Which is also irrelevant to the wrongness of his actions.
4. OMG! The Government collected data. The sky is falling! Not! This is not about that but about Snowdens wrong actions in releasing information he was not entitled to release.
Snowden could have chosen another avenue, he didn't. That is on him regardless of the underlying issue. He had no right to release the information he did.


OrphanSlug said:
Anytime someone of an IQ lower than their shoe size suggests Snowden is a traitor, what they failed to realize is they inherently call the American People enemies of the state. That is who he handed information to, the people through the media so they ultimately knew how far their government was willing to go to trade Constitutional protections for the guise of national security. You should be thanking Snowden for being willing to share with you how far Republicans and Democrats alike are willing to go in an effort to marginalize the rights of the individual. His actions reminded us that the Patriot Act is no more about patriotism than the Freedom Act is about freedoms.
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The ones with low IQ's are the ones claiming he is a hero and isn't a traitor.
Nor do I care how you want to falsely spin his illegal actions. And that was not to whom he handed the information.

But if you really think he is a hero, please emulate his exact actions.


OrphanSlug said:
And while other IQ challenged individuals suggest that you should not care much about a right to privacy assuming you have nothing to hide, *is* saying you do not care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
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Not an argument I made, so you should control your hyperbolic bs as the low IQ excrement just applies to the side you chose to argue in response to his wrongful actions.


OrphanSlug said:
Assuming that the OP article is right on Snowden files being compromised by Russia and China, the honest culprit at the end of the day is the US government for doing all this nonsense in the first place.
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Wrong.
He is for taking and releasing information that he was not allowed to take or release.


OrphanSlug said:
This nonsense that has not made us any safer, but has developed one hell of a business model and political strategy model that suggests scaring the hell out of our citizens until they willingly surrender their rights for more government intrusion.
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:doh
More hyperbolic nonsense.
But it is nice to know that you do not care about the damage his wrongful action caused.


OrphanSlug said:
To argue against what Snowden's actions have generated in conversation, and scrutiny, and push back on our government is a suggestion of not caring at all about the real non-debatable intentions of the Constitution. A limiting mechanism for the government, not the people.
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Two separate issues.
This is about the wrongness of his actions, not the wrongness or legality of the collection.

That said; The people are not entitled to know everything.
A person who thinks otherwise is not being rational.

As for collection of information.
The information is going to be collected anyways.
If not by our own Government, then by another. And it is likely that we will by mutual agreements, trade and/or purchase, or spy on, to obtain.
And if obtained illegally it is not like it can be used in a US Court against a person, as it would be fruit of the poisonous tree.
 
reinoe said:
Snowden Was a contractor and not a government employee. Therefor he would not be afforded whistleblower protections.
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I think that there actually may have been something for him, but as I pointed out earlier, Obama has a flair for prosecuting whistleblowers.

The Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA) of 1998 provides a secure means for employees to report to Congress allegations regarding classified information.
The ICWPA is a statute that provides a process by which employees, or contractor employees, of the Defense Intelligence Agency, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, and the National Security Agency can report matters of "urgent concern" to the intelligence committees of Congress. DoD IG Instruction 7050.11, dated 15 February 2007, implements the ICWPA within the DoD Office of Inspector General.

http://www.dodig.mil/programs/whistleblower/icwpa.html
 
Excon said:
Yes, that is exactly what you provided is.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
He is not a hero.
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Wrong, without his actions the government would still be doing what it did.

Excon said:
1. Don't care what they collected or if people are talking about it. This is about the wrongness of Snowden's actions.
2. Talking about the other things you mentioned has always been done. Also irrelevant to the fact of his wrongful actions.
3. Don't care what government they spied on. It is what Governments should and will continue to do. Which is also irrelevant to the wrongness of his actions.
4. OMG! The Government collected data. The sky is falling! Not! This is not about that but about Snowdens wrong actions in releasing information he was not entitled to release.
Snowden could have chosen another avenue, he didn't. That is on him regardless of the underlying issue. He had no right to release the information he did.

The ones with low IQ's are the ones claiming he is a hero and isn't a traitor.
Nor do I care how you want to falsely spin his illegal actions. And that was not to whom he handed the information.
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You should care, because of his actions we are talking about something under political and public pressure. There were no safe actions for Snowden to take, including the one he decided on. The best move was to release information to the press and American Public, which it appears you side with the government on. Calling him a traitor makes the American Public enemies of the government.

Excon said:
But if you really think he is a hero, please emulate his exact actions.

Not an argument I made, so you should control your hyperbolic bs as the low IQ excrement just applies to the side you chose to argue in response to his wrongful actions.
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I am not in a position to emulate his actions.

Excon said:
Wrong.
He is for taking and releasing information that he was not allowed to take or release.

:doh
More hyperbolic nonsense.
But it is nice to know that you do not care about the damage his wrongful action caused.

Two separate issues.
This is about the wrongness of his actions, not the wrongness or legality of the collection.

That said; The people are not entitled to know everything.
A person who thinks otherwise is not being rational.

As for collection of information.
The information is going to be collected anyways.
If not by our own Government, then by another. And it is likely that we will by mutual agreements, trade and/or purchase, or spy on, to obtain.
And if obtained illegally it is not like it can be used in a US Court against a person, as it would be fruit of the poisonous tree.
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The US Government is responsible for all of this, and they are not two separate issues. The ultimate concern is a government who discounts the Constitution, it appears you agree. Putting you in concert with the very reason he ended up running. There is no fairness dealing with a government who looks at its own citizens as a security risk.
 
Excon said:
...
The provided article clearly indicated "He fled to Hong Kong, then to Moscow".

:doh
Lame.
He was in flight and ended up fleeing to Moscow. ...
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Lame yourself. As I said, the article lied. His US passport was revoked inflight, giving Moscow the right to stop him. A major British enquiry has just come out with scathing criticism of our security services. This "news" has been leaked to a friendly press by someone unattributed in the Home Office (which has a vested interst in deflection) and not the Foreign office which has the responsibility. This is no more than a smokescreen to avoid embarrassment. Where is the confirmation from the WH?

Why did they need to crack the documents? He would have handed them over.
Where did they get them? He always maintained he left them in Hong Kong with journalists there.
How do Britain know that these documents have been "cracked"? it's all bollocks.
 
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OrphanSlug said:
Wrong, without his actions the government would still be doing what it did.
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Wrong.
Again, the way he chose to do it is what makes his actions wrong.




OrphanSlug said:
You should care, because of his actions we are talking about something under political and public pressure. There were no safe actions for Snowden to take, including the one he decided on. The best move was to release information to the press and American Public, which it appears you side with the government on. Calling him a traitor makes the American Public enemies of the government.
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Pure unadulterated BS!


OrphanSlug said:
The US Government is responsible for all of this,
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Wrong. He is.


OrphanSlug said:
and they are not two separate issues.
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Yes, they clearly are.
Whether or not the Government was in the wrong is irrelevant as to whether he was in the wrong as he was.


OrphanSlug said:
The ultimate concern is a government who discounts the Constitution, it appears you agree. Putting you in concert with the very reason he ended up running. There is no fairness dealing with a government who looks at its own citizens as a security risk.
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More bs. The meta data collection that was only later declared illegal was not the only thing he wrongfully exposed.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Lame yourself. As I said, the article lied. His US passport was revoked inflight, giving Moscow the right to stop him. A major British enquiry has just come out with scathing criticism of our security services. This "news" has been leaked to a friendly press by someone unattributed in the Home Office (which has a vested interst in deflection) and not the Foreign office which has the responsibility. This is no more than a smokescreen to avoid embarrassment. Where is the confirmation from the WH?

Why did they need to crack the documents? He would have handed them over.
Where did they get them? He always maintained he left them in Hong Kong with journalists there.
How do Britain know that these documents have been "cracked"? it's all bollocks.
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Wrong.
The article I provided did not lie. You are making a false assertion.
He fled to Moscow as it stated.

Why do you need a conformation from the WH when this is about British pulling their operatives?
You have questions, but no valid counter point to this report.
 
Excon said:
Wrong.
The article I provided did not lie. You are making a false assertion.
He fled to Moscow as it stated.

Why do you need a conformation from the WH when this is about British pulling their operatives?
You have questions, but no valid counter point to this report.
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The report is timed to misdirect, it contains little new information, other than the "cracked" assertion. Britain assumed agents had been compromised from the moment Snowdon was trapped in transit by the revocation of his passport to Latin America, and acted accordingly on the basis of the possibility. Two years on, there shouldn't be any agents left exposed in sensitive positions. People who have reviewed the documents have seen no mention of MI6 agents at all. Since the UK government's original position was that they didn't know what he had leaked, how do theyknow what was "decrypted" about MI6 and live actions was in the documents? There's no need to counter obvious deception which falls apart under elementary questioning from the less gullible.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The report is timed to misdirect, it contains little new information, other than the "cracked" assertion. Britain assumed agents had been compromised from the moment Snowdon was trapped in transit by the revocation of his passport to Latin America, and acted accordingly on the basis of the possibility. Two years on, there shouldn't be any agents left exposed in sensitive positions. People who have reviewed the documents have seen no mention of MI6 agents at all. Since the UK government's original position was that they didn't know what he had leaked, how do theyknow what was "decrypted" about MI6 and live actions was in the documents? There's no need to counter obvious deception which falls apart under elementary questioning from the less gullible.
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:lamo
Still with the false assertions I see. Figures.
 
Manc Skipper said:
"Western spies" in the headline, not British. Why are the WH not all over this? Because it's fake.
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I see you do not understand what "western" means. Figures.
 
Excon said:
Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6

Downing Street believes that Russian and Chinese intelligence agencies have used documents from whistleblower Edward Snowden to identify British and US secret agents, according to a report in the Sunday Times.

The newspaper says MI6, Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, has withdrawn agents from overseas operations because Russian security services had broken into encrypted files held by American computer analyst Snowden.

[...]​
​
Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6​


This person is not a hero.
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For the umpteenth time...he IS a hero..whether you like it or not.

'hero
[heer-oh]

1.
a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

2.
a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal:'

Hero | Define Hero at Dictionary.com

He IS admired by many for his brave deeds so he IS a hero.

Period.


Jeez people, at least learn what words mean before you use them.
 
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I see nothing in the article that proves anything against Snowden.

It provides no factual proof whatsoever that he gave any names to the Russians/Chinese.

It's just Snowden haters who assume he must have given them up.


And, you people must be staggeringly naive to simply take the word of any intelligence agency sight unseen.

Ahhh yes...the little trained minions...believe whatever the government tells you.
 
DA60 said:
For the umpteenth time...he IS a hero..whether you like it or not.

'hero
[heer-oh]

1.
a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.'

Hero | Define Hero at Dictionary.com

He IS admired by many for his brave deeds so he IS a hero.

Period.


Jeez people, at least learn what words mean before you use them.
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:doh
iLOL
:lamo:lamo:lamo
No he is not.

The way he did what he did was cowardly, not brave.

No mater how many time you say he is it wont change the fact that he is not.


Btw, the fact that you say "that he gave any names to the Russians/Chinese." Just shows you didn't understand what you read. :lamo
 
Montecresto said:
Obama ran in 2008 on increased whistleblower protections (amongst other things). He has in fact prosecuted more then any of his predecessors. While this story is problematic, had Snowden had Obama assurances, he could have revealed the wrong doing by the NSA domestically, served that useful purpose, and he and the material he was holding would have been able to remain here.
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Wonder how may were killed after having this become known?
 
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