• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6

As much as you despise government spy agencies they are a necessary evil and we are all spying on each other including allies. It would be foolish not to if our adversaries are doing it. And believe it or not the information our intelligence operatives get is vital to the nation's security and has saved countless lives. One has only to look at WWII to see what breakthroughs were made by the allies against the Nazis that helped us win the war.

Bashing the west for spying is naive if you know the extent of subterfuge the Chinese and Russians are engaging in.

As a former member of the military with a security clearance I am aghast at what Snowden did. His intentions may have been noble but he played right into the hands of Russia and China and put agents of the west in grave danger.

I have nothing against spying as long as it is not done on our own people.I am sure the Chinese and the Russians feel the same way about their government spying,cool as long as it is done on the enemies and bad when they do it on the people.

But lets not fool ourselves here about thinking these people are noble.The lie for a living.Lying is what they do.They lied to the people and wiped their **** covered ass with the 4th amendment.Their spying on the people is a way much larger offense that what these known liars are alleging Snowden did. Everything those people say should be suspect, especially when they were caught lying about spying on the people. You wouldn't trust a known junkie to watch your house for the weekend because that junkie may steal everything in your home to buy drugs. You wouldn't trust a convicted child rapist to watch your kids because that convicted child rapist might rape your kids. You wouldn't let some one who is vehicle accident prone drive a prized sports car because that sports car might get wrecked..But yet you are going to take the word of dirtbags who lie their ass off .
 
The problem is he knew what happened to Drake, also of NSA, who DID try like hell to go through the right channels. And they ruined him, destroyed his career, his reputation, buried him for years defending trumped up BS criminal charges.

That's the problem when you do that to people who try to do the right thing. You tell others, "If you try, we will destroy you" and so we can either accept that no one can challenge the national security apparatus, or accept that anyone who does do it will have to break the law.

Conservatives love to see authority abused. It's why they line up to defend every cop that gets fired for abusing their authority.
 
You have different concerns, not greater concerns. And you are simply arguing a hypothetical of what might have happened while I am concerned with what he actually did.

Actually, you continue to prove that you have no idea what Snowden did or did not do. You're making the same noises as a plugged toilet. Get some air man. You have cast aspersions with absolutely no factual basis or linked support. Many of the posters on this board were born at night, but it was not last night. You're passin' gas, my friend.
 
I didnt call it "made up".
I said they essentially just took the UK governments position, and ran with it.
He even says that when asked about he came about the story, "Asked by CNN's George Howell how senior British government officials know that Russia and China have indeed breached the encrypted files, Harper replied: "I don’t know the answer to that. All we know is that this is effectively the official position of the British government." Sunday Times Reporter Tries To Defend Snowden Story

This is just **** for journalism.
:doh He doesn't have to know to report what he is being told. :doh
 
Of course I'm old enough to remember! The difference between Snowden and Ellberg is one did it for money and the other was just naive.

Institutionalized torture is now banned by the Obama administration. What's your point?

And no I'm not big on torture. It provides lots of false information due to the desperation of the detainee.

And contrary to our last president and vp, waterboarding IS torture which is obvious to anyone that is familiar with it.

I'm glad we agree that torture is a crime under both US statutes and international law.

Regarding the comparison between Ellsberg and Snowden, which of them did it for money? Do we know how much money was involved?
 
:doh He doesn't have to know to report what he is being told. :doh

A journalist shouldnt backup his sources with evidence, instead should just write what the government tells him without evidence or verification? :doh Wow....
 
:doh He doesn't have to know to report what he is being told. :doh

That's correct, because the press in that case acts as government stenographers, the PR arm of the intelligence agency, publishing unsourced press releases. That's all they're doing. That's the point.

If you want to believe evidence free and anonymous press releases from government agencies repeatedly caught lying to the public and to Congress/UK legislators, that's your prerogative but some of us are a bit more skeptical and would like a name so we can hold them accountable and some evidence for what are extraordinary and explosive claims.
 
A journalist shouldnt backup his sources with evidence, instead should just write what the government tells him without evidence or verification? Wow....
Holy **** your reply is as comical as it is lame.
He doesn't have to "know" to report what he was told.
Do you really not understand that?
Many things are reported that way.
Do you also not understand that?

He reported what he was told. There is nothing wrong with that, especially as he made that clear.





That's correct, because the press in that case acts as government stenographers, the PR arm of the intelligence agency, publishing unsourced press releases. That's all they're doing. That's the point.
That may or may not be what is happening, but to assume it is, is absurd.


some of us are a bit more skeptical
Be skeptical if you want. But assuming is asinine.
 
Actually, you continue to prove that you have no idea what Snowden did or did not do. You're making the same noises as a plugged toilet. Get some air man. You have cast aspersions with absolutely no factual basis or linked support. Many of the posters on this board were born at night, but it was not last night. You're passin' gas, my friend.

No, you are just suffering from delusions. As has been pointed out over and over, Snowden's claims about what he has and doesn't have simply don't add up. He claimed that he gave everything he had to the reporters in Hong Kong, and yet was still releasing data after that point, and NSA has established that he took 1.7 million documents with him to Hong Kong, and only gave 200,000 to the press, leaving 1.5 million unaccounted for.

There is not a chance that he was granted asylum in Russia by Putin, with all of the diplomatic baggage, without a quid pro quo.
 
No, you are just suffering from delusions. As has been pointed out over and over, Snowden's claims about what he has and doesn't have simply don't add up. He claimed that he gave everything he had to the reporters in Hong Kong, and yet was still releasing data after that point, and NSA has established that he took 1.7 million documents with him to Hong Kong, and only gave 200,000 to the press, leaving 1.5 million unaccounted for.

There is not a chance that he was granted asylum in Russia by Putin, with all of the diplomatic baggage, without a quid pro quo.

Once again, full of crap. Theoretically Snowden was in contact with 1.7 million documents, no other proof. Once again you are passing gas. Produce links that prove what you say, not what the gov't wants the Mass Media to say.
 
Once again, full of crap. Theoretically Snowden was in contact with 1.7 million documents, no other proof. Once again you are passing gas. Produce links that prove what you say, not what the gov't wants the Mass Media to say.

The NSA released that number, what reason would they have to exaggerate the number of documents Snowden took? You are simply ignoring the facts because they interfere with your narrative.
 
The NSA released that number, what reason would they have to exaggerate the number of documents Snowden took? You are simply ignoring the facts because they interfere with your narrative.

Yeah man, we all know very well that the NSA would never deceive anybody....:lamo

Their reputation for truthfulness is legend. ;) They would NEVER spin facts.
 
Yeah man, we all know very well that the NSA would never deceive anybody.

Or Putin. But I see you didn't answer the question: What reason could the NSA have for exaggerating the size of the theft?

Also, what reason would Putin have for granting political asylum to Snowden? Why did Snowden move to the Russian Consulate in Hong Kong while negotiating asylum in Iceland?

Their reputation for truthfulness is legend. ;) They would NEVER spin facts.

Why would they spin facts to make the theft appear larger than it was?
 
Or Putin. But I see you didn't answer the question: What reason could the NSA have for exaggerating the size of the theft?

Also, what reason would Putin have for granting political asylum to Snowden? Why did Snowden move to the Russian Consulate in Hong Kong while negotiating asylum in Iceland?



Why would they spin facts to make the theft appear larger than it was?

Snowden was a gift to Russian PR and Putin, nearly a gift from heaven. A major propaganda gift, sent from heaven.

If the NSA command had treated Thomas Drake and others differently, Snowden might not have been driven there, but if a frog had wings...

I don't work for NSA and never have, so I am unqualified to give any sort of accurate answer as to why NSA did what they did.

I can speculate however, just like you, and can say that they can spin using reverse psychology or any other style of misdirection and deception. Our media is so damn gullible they believe whatever the spy agencies say, no questions asked. Go figure.
 
Snowden was a gift to Russian PR and Putin, nearly a gift from heaven. A major propaganda gift, sent from heaven.

It wasn't a propaganda gift, it is diplomatic poison. If Putin was interested in international propaganda he wouldn't have annexed the Crimea.

If the NSA command had treated Thomas Drake and others differently, Snowden might not have been driven there, but if a frog had wings...

You meant he guy who was cleared of all charges two years before Snowden did anything? Yeah, he must have been really scared that he might not be convicted and go on to be interviewed by the daily show and enter the speaking circuit and a lucrative career as a fourth amendment proponent. He must have been terrified. :roll:

I don't work for NSA and never have, so I am unqualified to give any sort of accurate answer as to why NSA did what they did.

But you are qualified to declare it is a lie? How strange!

I can speculate however, just like you, and can say that they can spin using reverse psychology or any other style of misdirection and deception. Our media is so damn gullible they believe whatever the spy agencies say, no questions asked. Go figure.

If you recall, the hold over in Russia was spun as an unwanted intrusion by the Russians when in fact it was a planned trip by the Russians in Hong Kong. If it was a propaganda event there would be no reason for such a ruse.

As was pointed out in the articles I posted, Snowden was still releasing information after he claimed to have turned over all the documents to the journalists in Hong Kong.
 
Once again, full of crap. Theoretically Snowden was in contact with 1.7 million documents, no other proof. Once again you are passing gas. Produce links that prove what you say, not what the gov't wants the Mass Media to say.

Besides that, as though we're going to trust the NSA as the source for what documentation Snowden ended up with. It's the same old tired thing we see by the fringe right. They hate big government if it is beneficial to society, protects our food, air and water, provides a bit of a safety net for the less fortunate, or feeds children at school. But they always get behind and defend the heavy hand of government when it comes to their constant abuse of our civil liberties, they don't care how big we allow government to get to further that end (Patriot Act, Homeland Security) they never flinch at how much we need to spend on the next war killing people and destroying property, the CIA can have an open budget to conduct their regime change if the military fails, and any American that dares to expose crimes committed against American citizens by this big government, well they are traitors! This is the mindset of those fringe righties clinging to the edge by their fingernails. Oh, I forgot, any amount of money Israel asks for, they'll give them too. Just don't feed that hungry child showing up to school in the morning. I'm telling you, they are freaks.
 
Yeah man, we all know very well that the NSA would never deceive anybody....:lamo

Their reputation for truthfulness is legend. ;) They would NEVER spin facts.

The freaks on the right hate big government, except when they love it!
 
those black soldiers are boring the sun
 
Back
Top Bottom