Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

stonewall50 said:
I'm wondering why the guy shot a kid. I can't really open it. Tapatalk is a whore sometimes. I mean...was he just being a one bullet Barney dumb ass?

If the cop driver had just stayed on the road instead of pulling up within feet of the kid and both jumping out like Rambo, my bet is he would still be alive right now.

Hatuey · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

reinoe said:
Cops get a thrill from watching children bleed to death on the floor.

This is a ridiculous lie. Stop it. It's enough that we have to deal with the bull**** claims and absurd lies from those who will defend police officers no matter what.

reinoe · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

JasperL said:
The reports are they administered no first aid, no CPR. That didn't happen until the FBI agent arrived, who did both, before the ambulance arrived. They did wrestle his distraught sister to the ground and put her in handcuffs, though!
.

Yep. Those cops made her watch her brother bleed to death and ensure that she couldn't render medical aid.

reinoe · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Hatuey said:
This is a ridiculous lie. Stop it. It's enough that we have to deal with the bull**** claims and absurd lies from those who will defend police officers no matter what.

Why did the cops mount the curb and drive up to the child if not to ensure the bullets didn't miss?

JasperL · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

CRUE CAB said:
Good luck fighting off the criminals.

If the cops on the job now are such whiney pansies that they'll walk off it because citizens who pay their salaries and who they are sworn to serve complain about the use of deadly force, good riddance to them all. They are clearly in the wrong profession and have the attitude we owe them gratitude and not extreme skepticism when they kill unarmed citizens.

I don't believe that, however. What these incidents do is give the good cops a bad name, especially when the actions are defended as appropriate.

I can understand there being legitimate disagreement about whether or not a murder charge is appropriate. I suspect the officer was trying to do a good job and made a tragic mistake in the blink of an eye. The reason I support a trial is that's the standard that would apply if that kid shot someone - we wouldn't be giving him the benefit of the doubt if the victim was a white man with a carry permit reaching for his wallet.

But what I can't understand is pretending that this officer did his job well, or handled the situation appropriately.

VanceMack · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Lutherf said:
No. I advocated that someone be killed for creating a situation where any reasonable person would have cause to fear for their life.

Precisely what I said. The cops rolled up on a situation where they were told there was a person threatening people with a gun(and we have video tape showing he did just that) and when they arrived on the scene he jumped up, pulled up his shirt exposing the weapon, and reached for the weapon. Any reasonable person would assume that he was reaching for the weapon with cops approaching him with the intent to use it.

Hatuey · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

reinoe said:
Why did the cops mount the curb and drive up to the child if not to ensure the bullets didn't miss?

You don't get to weasel away from your words. Cops DO NOT get a thrill from seeing kids die. To claim that COPS in the general sense get a thrill from killing kids is absolute garbage that goes beyond trolling. You're welcome to either withdraw them or be embarrassed for the next 10 pages. Your choice.

Excon · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Lutherf said:
That's not true. Cops have to abide by the same rules everyone else does and their use of force has to meet the same standards as a civilian. Cops have arrest and apprehension privileges that civilians do not so there is more flexibility in scenarios where they might be required to use force but they are not exempt from the law.

Show the law, not some report of a persons opinion on the law.

As the Officer is there to confront the suspect it is unlikely they have a duty to retreat when it is there duty to confront.

You have shown you understand self defense. Show that it was not reasonable for the Officer to believe Tamir grabbing his gun was a lethal threat.

Simon W. Moon · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Excon said:
Show the law, not some report of a persons opinion on the law.
As the Officer is there to confront the suspect it is unlikely they have a duty to retreat when it is there duty to confront.
You have shown you understand self defense. Show that it was not reasonable for the Officer to believe Tamir grabbing his gun was a lethal threat.

There's on in every crowd ain't there?.

reinoe · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Hatuey said:
You don't get to weasel away from your words. Cops DO NOT get a thrill from seeing kids die. To claim that COPS in the general sense get a thrill from killing kids is absolute garbage that goes beyond trolling. You're welcome to either withdraw them or be embarrassed for the next 10 pages. Your choice.

Ok not all cops but these two certainly did. They even tackled her sister to prevent her from giving aid and then made her watch her brother slowly die.

Hatuey · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

reinoe said:
Ok not all cops but these two certainly did. They even tackled her sister to prevent her from giving aid and then made her watch her brother slowly die.

Even that is unsubstantiated. They could simply be ****ty police officers and all of the evidence available points to exactly that, them being ****ty police officers. Unless of course you have access to their psych evaluations/reports.

JasperL · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

VanceMack said:
Precisely what I said. The cops rolled up on a situation where they were told there was a person threatening people with a gun(and we have video tape showing he did just that) and when they arrived on the scene he jumped up, pulled up his shirt exposing the weapon, and reached for the weapon. Any reasonable person would assume that he was reaching for the weapon with cops approaching him with the intent to use it.

LOL. In your scenario, he has the 'gun' out, is pointing it at people at that instant, and is screaming threats.

In the Rice case, he put his hand under his shirt. That's it.

The equivalent is a call saying the lawyer has what could be a fake gun in his briefcase, and he's shot and killed when he reaches into it, before he brings the gun out, before he issues a threat, before he points it at anyone.

Excon · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Simon W. Moon said:
There's on in every crowd ain't there?.

Which begs the question as to why you are asking. :mrgreen:

Montecresto · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Excon said:
That in no way shows what you claimed. Especially as the Judge totally ignored what was on the known video unless it was illegally edited, which I would not put beyond a possibility being that the lawyer was Crump.

It absolutely shows that the judge has more influence then Excon does. And there's plenty of people here, and on other forums, and on the radio and TV who have seen the video, and agree with the judge, and not with you. But from what I've seen from you, a cop could walk up to anybody and shoot them and you'd defend him.

reinoe · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Hatuey said:
Even that is unsubstantiated. They could simply be ****ty police officers and all of the evidence available points to exactly that, them being ****ty police officers. Unless of course you have access to their psych reports.

The shooter was dismissed from the independence police department for being a sociopath.

The driver had a lawsuit against him for pinning a woman to the ground and savagely beating her.

This is speculation but it's likely that as soon as they heard from dispatch about the gun being fake they knew they could shoot the child and get away with it.

blackjack50 · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064712245 said:
If the cop driver had just stayed on the road instead of pulling up within feet of the kid and both jumping out like Rambo, my bet is he would still be alive right now.

Sadly that is probably true, and probably would have been the smart play. I am going to watch the video when I get off work. I found one that works and I think I have an idea of different mind sets people have watching it. I like to know going in so I can look for specific things on my first watching.

Kreton · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Montecresto said:
It absolutely shows that the judge has more influence then Excon does. And there's plenty of people here, and on other forums, and on the radio and TV who have seen the video, and agree with the judge, and not with you. But from what I've seen from you, a cop could walk up to anybody and shoot them and you'd defend him.

We actually have established that in the other cop thread. The pool party one. He does not believe cops should be held accountable regardless of what they do. He believes cops can do what they wish simply because they are cops. Laws do not apply to them.

Lutherf · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

VanceMack said:
Precisely what I said. The cops rolled up on a situation where they were told there was a person threatening people with a gun(and we have video tape showing he did just that) and when they arrived on the scene he jumped up, pulled up his shirt exposing the weapon, and reached for the weapon. Any reasonable person would assume that he was reaching for the weapon with cops approaching him with the intent to use it.

Oh FFS:doh

If you're in a court room and someone pulls a gun you will probably be in a situation where others are in immediate danger and the prospect of escape is hindered by stuff like doors, walls and furniture. In such a situation you shoot until the threat is eliminated.

In the Tamir Rice situation there was no other person in imminent danger and if the cops had used so much as a shred of common sense and even half decent tactics they could have avoided danger while still communicating with the kid. If, after trying to communicate with the kid, he went hostile then they would be reasonable in taking him out by whatever means necessary including deadly force. However, they never exercised that option. They simply went for the throat and in doing so caused themselves and the suspect to be put in a life or death situation. That's just plain reckless.

Look, I've actually been in two very similar situations as a cop in the military. In both cases I approached, used my vehicle for cover and addressed the situation. In both cases the suspect was quite obviously armed but in neither case did they present enough of a threat that I had to shoot them. Why? Because I didn't put myself in a situation where that was the only option I had!

Hatuey · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

reinoe said:
The shooter was dismissed from the independence police department for being a sociopath.

You're engaging in lying, man. Here, read up on the guy:

Cleveland officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty in 2012 | US news | The Guardian

Officer Timothy Loehmann, who killed Tamir Rice on 22 November, was specifically faulted for breaking down emotionally while handling a live gun. During a training episode at a firing range, Loehmann was reported to be “distracted and weepy” and incommunicative. “His handgun performance was dismal,” deputy chief Jim Polak of the Independence, Ohio, police department wrote in an internal memo.

Here is a basic definition of a "sociopath":

so·ci·o·path
ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
noun
noun: sociopath; plural noun: sociopaths

a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

He was dismissed for being unable to handle his emotions when handling a live weapon. That indicates the exact opposite of a sociopath.

The driver driver had a lawsuit against him for pinning a woman to the ground asavagely beating her.

This, like the previous claim is not an indication of sociopathy even in layman's terms.

This is speculation but it's likely that as soon as they heard about the gun being fake they knew they could shoot the child and get away with it.

The problem with that claim is that the cops didn't have enough information to determine whether the gun was fake or not. That is one of the reason for people being generally angry at the reaction from the police officers. I warned you already reinoe, you can either drop this bull**** or you can be embarrassed for 10 pages.

Nursmate · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Montecresto said:
It absolutely shows that the judge has more influence then Excon does. And there's plenty of people here, and on other forums, and on the radio and TV who have seen the video, and agree with the judge, and not with you. But from what I've seen from you, a cop could walk up to anybody and shoot them and you'd defend him.

There was A LOT of human failure surrounding this case. From the 911 call, parental supervision, a police officer not fit for duty, and how the victim was treated after the shoot. If you research his background, he was a good kid, but raised by a idiot. In time, he had a good chance of being shot by a gang banger. The location of where Tamir was shot is considered a "red zone" in Cleveland. A toddler was shot the previous year by a drive by shooting. Gun shots go off all the time there. Tamir should have had supervision to play in that park alone....his 14 year old sister should not have been there either. His mother was home the day of the shooting and she has a arrest record as long as your arm. The police officer had a lot of issues as LE in a suburb...he was disciplined for poor decisions, target requirements, (he was a terrible shot), and emotional issues surrounding a break up with a girlfriend. Cleveland PD hired him without checking his references. The cop had only been on the force (both) a short period time and IMO, not experienced enough to work in a red zone. I doubt that the officers will be charged with a crime...the bottom line...Tamir was armed, not lethally, but a gun was present..toy or not. Considering the open carry laws in Ohio...LE is going to protect themselves, regardless. Tamir was not a "thug"...just a ill informed kid who did not realize the seriousness or consequences of his actions. I do think the officers involved should be relieved of their badges...they will never be the same after killing a kid and will not be able to safely patrol in Cleveland again.

matchlight · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

ludin said:
Yep and there is nothing in the video that would cause the grand jury to send this to a trial. if they do then it is all political and not anything other than that.

I am not privy to the evidence the grand jury will consider, which apparently consists of far more than just this video we see on the internet.

Hatuey · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

matchlight said:
I am not privy to the evidence the grand jury will consider, which apparently consists of far more than just this video we see on the internet.

I'm sure by the end of this, we'll find out that Tamir Rice was really a front for a 42 year old Colombian drug lord with ties to the Triads and actually kept voodoo dolls in his room.

TurtleDude · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

VanceMack said:
Lets say you are in the courtroom...room full of interested parties...jury, family, media...packed house. The attorney mutters something like "**** this" and reaches into his briefcase, pulls out this....

View attachment 67185553

And shouts die mother****ers! and points the gun at people in the courtroom. What happens? Be honest.

the bailiff might shoot him or in some of the courtrooms I have been in the judge will

others they might challenge him

I don't think the kid pointed the gun at the cop and screamed DIE MFs. he didn't have time before he was shot

Hatuey · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

TurtleDude said:
the bailiff might shoot him or in some of the courtrooms I have been in the judge will

others they might challenge him

I don't think the kid pointed the gun at the cop and screamed DIE MFs. he didn't have time before he was shot

2 seconds is more than enough for a 12 year old to impersonate Tony Montana. I think the cops should have AT LEAST asked him who he was just in case he actually was Tony Montana.

TurtleDude · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Hatuey said:
2 seconds is more than enough to turn into Tony Montana.

not from what I saw on the tape.

edit in response to edit

Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

Μολὼν λαβέ

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Hatuey

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reinoe

reinoe

JasperL

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Hatuey

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Excon

Simon W. Moon

reinoe

Hatuey

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JasperL

Excon

Montecresto

reinoe

blackjack50

Kreton

Doesn't know

Lutherf

Hatuey

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Nursmate

matchlight

Hatuey

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TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

Hatuey

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TurtleDude

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