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Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

Then you're the exception the general reality. Just because there's a white christian male bias in our systems doesn't mean every white christian male is guaranteed to benefit from it. It just means that theirs a must higher percentage of white males benefiting/succeeding compared to non-whites. Also indicates a less likelihood, but not impossible, of being treated poorly simply because of being a certain color or religion or gender or sexual preference.

Or even being treated differently. White folks never fear being "shook down" or stopped in a white neighborhood based on race, they never see a person subtly move their purse to the other side of their body when walking by a group of people of a different race, they never see a black person cross the street to avoid walking past a group of white people, they never see people avoid getting into a elevator with them, they are never followed around in a store in fear of stealing something...and the list goes on. Blacks notice this behavior even tho a white person may not realize they are doing it. Whites do not know what it is like to be a second class citizen...especially white males.
 
Power is no longer exclusive to whites. There are a lot of other races in power. And even though a lot of "power positions" are held by white people, it does not do a damn thing for other 99% of white americans. The way our country works, very few in poverty ever get out of poverty. More people fall into poverty than climb out. And most of those who do climb out of poverty only make it to about lower middle class if they are lucky. The reason you see so little people of color who do get into power is because those in power, and those who control their money after they have left power, do not concede power. And since it is near impossible for anyone of any race to go from poverty to powerful in America, many minorities are trapped into that system. But so are all the poor white people. Poor is poor, and rich is rich. Money is what matters. Rich white kids do get more opportunities and priveledges than poor black kids, but along those same lines, rich black kids get more opportunities and priveledges than poor white kids. It is the GREEN that matters not white, black, brown or yellow. I happen to be the same race as some of the richest people in America, and as it turns out, they don't share with me either. Some of you can say white people get more, but 20 million people struggling would disagree and would disagree that thier white skin has afforded them any extra benefits.

All I'll say is racism is real where I live and if you applied for a job race (that you are white) wouldn't be an issue for you. Not in the hiring, not with your fellow workers, not one person would object because you're white and are a supervisor and giving them orders. None of your clients or customers would care that you are white. Cops wouldn't stop you and search your vehicle for no reason. The loss prevention folks wouldn't follow you around stores while you're shopping. If you're black, none of that is true.

Sheesh, my own uncle was fired from his good job with a power plant because he told the black supervisor he "wouldn't take orders from a nigger." He's an idiot, but this is Mississippi and I'm sure a fair number of his coworkers felt similarly but were smart enough to keep it to themselves. You don't think that makes it harder for that black guy to do a good job as supervisor, when some part of his workforce hates him because he's black?

Yes, I've said that the real privilege is money and had several debates about how much of an advantage it provides - IMO, immense! But at least in MOST jobs in MOST regions, being white gives you a better chance at success, getting an interview, getting a job, getting promoted, than being black.
 
All I'll say is racism is real where I live and if you applied for a job race (that you are white) wouldn't be an issue for you. Not in the hiring, not with your fellow workers, not one person would object because you're white and are a supervisor and giving them orders. None of your clients or customers would care that you are white. Cops wouldn't stop you and search your vehicle for no reason. The loss prevention folks wouldn't follow you around stores while you're shopping. If you're black, none of that is true.

.

I do not believe any of that to be true. Largely because I have been pulled over. I have had my car searched. I have been handcuffed as cops flipped my apartment. I have been followed around stores. Just like almost every other teen in America. Very few people care any more if their boss is black. That has been a problem in the past but most companies, especially large companies have minorities in management or supervisory positions. You are simply wrong on almost all counts.


But at least in MOST jobs in MOST regions, being white gives you a better chance at success, getting an interview, getting a job, getting promoted, than being black.

no it doesnt. Show me ONE employer who hires based on race in any major corporation in the United States. you may be able to find some family run businesses that all happen to be the same race, largely due to them being family, but i can point out many businesses in almost any city where people of every race do that. .

You seem to have this false idea that the majority of Americans are racist. It is simply not true. Most Americans are not racist. That isn't to say there aren't any racists out there, but it is no longer common.
 
That is part of it, but it's not all of it. I can see you're too personally bitter to see that. So be it.

You can't see anything, and that is all of it - the only folks who see more is those who want to create more racial divide.
 
So racism is dead?
A non sequitur question or a strawman masquerading as a question.... you choose.

Conscious and subconscious? If it's not, and given that almost all the real power is still held by whites, mostly white males, then being something other than white comes with a disadvantage. It's really that simple.
Power is wielded by the highest economic classes and by the political class, regardless of the color of their skin.
 
IOW, it was perfectly legal so you're going to run away from my challenge
I don't argue points with someone who doesn't know the subject matter. Go educate yourself and ask a better question. What are you still confused about?

You can be jailed, for a limited time, without being charged and the article doesn't say he wasn't charged.
Please quote and link the NY State penal code where that's allowed.
 
Saying someone is not honest about race is the same as saying people are not honest in discussing stuff. It is an unframed position.

I never said someone was honest, I said have a serious discussion about race. Since that one is confounding you a bit how about you narrow it down to something you feel comfortable discussing and then you open a thread about it? This thread is actually not about race but about a comment made by Paul who referenced a kid being held in jail without a trial - of all the things to pull out for the headline (WT editor should be slapped around for that one) there were so many other things said by Paul that actually made sense.
 
I'll tell you what can be done. Stop MESSING with people over stuff that has no victim, like prostitution, dope, gambling, guns, etc. You'll then have 4x as much jail space, court time, etc, to go after and swiftly deal with those who DO harm people. Why CARE about stuff that has no victim?
 
A non sequitur question or a strawman masquerading as a question.... you choose.

Power is wielded by the highest economic classes and by the political class, regardless of the color of their skin.

If you think you'd do better in life as a black man than a white man, I think you're delusional. I've explained why in several posts to you and others. Not much else to say. I guess we'll disagree.

I know if someone suggested I color my face black and change my name to Jamal to improve my job prospects, I'd call the person suggesting that an idiot and wonder if they were drunk or high or just pulling my leg, especially in my region. You live in NJ. Maybe it doesn't matter there. In the South, it matters, a lot.
 
I don't argue points with someone who doesn't know the subject matter. Go educate yourself and ask a better question. What are you still confused about?

Please quote and link the NY State penal code where that's allowed.

Answer my question and I'll answer yours
 
If you think you'd do better in life as a black man than a white man, I think you're delusional. I've explained why in several posts to you and others. Not much else to say. I guess we'll disagree.
I never said that - I said I've never been given any sort of privilege because of the color of my skin.
 
Answer my question and I'll answer yours

You're question isn't worth answering. I already know the answer... just like I already know there's no such penal code. I just want to make you look more incompetent in this thread, but that may not be possible since your confusion seems permanent and persistent.
 
You're question isn't worth answering. I already know the answer... just like I already know there's no such penal code. I just want to make you look more incompetent in this thread, but that may not be possible since your confusion seems permanent and persistent.

You don't know the answer because your claim that his being sent to Rikers was illegal is BS.

It was perfectly legal to send that kid to Rikers.
 
You don't know the answer because your claim that his being sent to Rikers was illegal is BS.

So prove me wrong and show me the NY penal code allowing him to be held for 3 years at Rikers without a trial..... I'll wait.
 
So prove me wrong and show me the NY penal code allowing him to be held for 3 years at Rikers without a trial..... I'll wait.

So after saying you won't answer the question, you're now answering the question? And your answer doesn't show that he was jailed illegally; it shows that he wasn't given a speedy trial
 
So prove me wrong and show me the NY penal code allowing him to be held for 3 years at Rikers without a trial..... I'll wait.

I never said that the law allowed someone to be held for 3 years. I said the law allows someone to be held without being charged.
 
I never said that - I said I've never been given any sort of privilege because of the color of my skin.

Like I said, the "privilege" is at its core not having had to overcome any externally imposed barriers on your success, the kind of barriers that those of other races, religions, and women in many cases DO have to overcome.

Or to put it another way, I can't speak for you, but I know in my personal or professional life I've never for one second had to worry about my race or my gender or my religion. It has never occurred to me that any of those might be a disadvantage in any way. That's not true for blacks, women, or for other races or religions, for whom who they are IS often/frequently/constantly a barrier to their success.

Finally, if I was worried number 1 about career success and could pick, I'd pick what I am - white male Christian. In most areas of the country, in the vast majority of jobs, that's still true and it's not close (except obviously race/gender/religion specific - I'd make a poor lingerie model...).

It doesn't mean you were GIVEN a thing, or that your road was easy, or that your success illegitimate or in any way unearned. You're misunderstanding what the term is supposed to imply.
 
He is right when he states black civilians dont receive "the same justice" as white civilians, AKA black civilians get harsher sentences, etc. But I probably will not agree with his policy solutions to the problem.
Wrong.
A comparison of sentences for a specific crime that does not consider the other variables that go into a specific sentencing means absolutely nothing.
 
I never said that - I said I've never been given any sort of privilege because of the color of my skin.

I think that what he is saying is that you don't have to be given any special privileges......because the system is geared in your favor from the beginning. The "system" is geared for the white male to succeed.
 
Wrong.
A comparison of sentences for a specific crime that does not consider the other variables that go into a specific sentencing means absolutely nothing.

This information has been provided to you many times before. Numbers dont lie.All you have done to counter is just screamed, "nauh!" over and over again
 
This information has been provided to you many times before. Numbers dont lie.All you have done to counter is just screamed, "nauh!" over and over again
:lamo Ha, ha, ha. :doh
Just more dishonesty. Same as using such stats in the first place. Figures.

The numbers are not a complete and thorough examination of all pertaining facts to sentencing and as such mean absolutely nothing of value.
 
:lamo Ha, ha, ha. :doh
Just more dishonesty. Same as using such stats in the first place. Figures.

The numbers are not a complete and thorough examination of all pertaining facts to sentencing and as such mean absolutely nothing of value.

Guess we have to present it to you again...
20sxfo7.jpg

"This study provides robust evidence that black male federal defendants receive longer
sentences than whites arrested for the same offenses and with the same prior records. On average
black males receive sentences that are approximately 10% longer than comparable white
males with those at the top of the sentencing distribution facing even larger disparities. Much of
that disparity appears to be driven by decisions at the initial charging stage, especially by prosecutors’
filing of “mandatory minimum” charges, which, ceteris paribus, they do twice as often
against black defendants. Our estimates of disparities in prosecutorial decisions are likely conservative,
because they do not encompass gaps introduced by prearrest prosecutorial involvement
in the case, nor do they account for possible disparities in law enforcement. "
Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences by M. Marit Rehavi, Sonja B. Starr :: SSRN

In other words even when looking at the background of such cases african americans are more likely to be charged with violations carrying minimal sentences and this accounts for most of the black white gap in sentencing.

Its okay, I already know your response: "Nauh!"
 
Guess we have to present it to you again...
http://i59.tinypic.com/20sxfo7.jpg[IMG]
"This study provides robust evidence that black male federal defendants receive longer
sentences than whites arrested for the same offenses and with the same prior records. On average
black males receive sentences that are approximately 10% longer than comparable white
males with those at the top of the sentencing distribution facing even larger disparities. Much of
that disparity appears to be driven by decisions at the initial charging stage, especially by prosecutors’
filing of “mandatory minimum” charges, which, ceteris paribus, they do twice as often
against black defendants. Our estimates of disparities in prosecutorial decisions are likely conservative,
because they do not encompass gaps introduced by prearrest prosecutorial involvement
in the case, nor do they account for possible disparities in law enforcement. "
[URL="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1985377"]Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences by M. Marit Rehavi, Sonja B. Starr :: SSRN[/URL]

In other words even when looking at the background of such cases african americans are more likely to be charged with violations carrying minimal sentences and this accounts for most of the black white gap in sentencing.

Its okay, I already know your response: "Nauh!"[/SIZE][/QUOTE]You still are not paying attention.

Again.
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="#000033"][B][FONT=Trebuchet MS]The numbers [COLOR="#0000ff"][U][COLOR="#000033"]are not a complete and thorough examination of all pertaining facts to sentencing[/COLOR][/U][/COLOR] and as such mean absolutely nothing of value.[/FONT][/B][/COLOR][/INDENT][/INDENT]

You really should have paid attention to what was said.
What you provided does not provide a complete and thorough examination of all facts pertaining to sentencing and as such is meaningless drivel.


It is funny that you think that same crime means same actions. Or that same criminal history means the same actions created that history.
Get a clue. They don't.
 
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Log cabin cells?
 
I do not believe any of that to be true. Largely because I have been pulled over. I have had my car searched. I have been handcuffed as cops flipped my apartment. I have been followed around stores. Just like almost every other teen in America. Very few people care any more if their boss is black. That has been a problem in the past but most companies, especially large companies have minorities in management or supervisory positions. You are simply wrong on almost all counts.

Ask a black person about DWB. Have you ever done that?

And let's take this at face value: "Very few people care any more if their boss is black." Approximately no one cares if their boss is a white male, because that's the 'standard' if you will. Advantage white male! And that's really the entire point.

no it doesnt. Show me ONE employer who hires based on race in any major corporation in the United States. you may be able to find some family run businesses that all happen to be the same race, largely due to them being family, but i can point out many businesses in almost any city where people of every race do that. .

Again, you're making my point nicely. Of course we all consciously or subconsciously prefer to hire and work closely with those who are like us. And so for lots of reasons, in my area in part centuries of state sanctioned discrimination, most businesses are owned by whites, mostly white males, mostly white male Christians, and so in a competition if it's two people - a white male, and a black female, all things equal, the white male gets the job. Not because of overt racism anymore - I think the vast majority are over that - but just comfort, rapport, ease working with, etc. It's just human nature.

Take a look at the CEOs for Fortune 500 or Fortune 1000. It's getting better - in 2000 there were 3 of 1,000. Now there's a whopping 51 of 1,000. I don't really think that's because there are only 51 qualified women in the country. It's because until 2000, CEO was a job for white males, period. That was it. So you're going to have to do a lot of work to convince anyone that white males don't have the edge. And it's not just CEO - that's just the last of many steps. It's for top management jobs, period. And it's easy to explain. The BOD hires the CEO, and the Board is likely all male, almost all white and they're most comfortable, have the most confidence in people like them, white males. Their style is the same, way of communicating, golf outings, outings to strip joints, hunting weekends, playing softball, etc.

You seem to have this false idea that the majority of Americans are racist. It is simply not true. Most Americans are not racist. That isn't to say there aren't any racists out there, but it is no longer common.

Not at all. But we all have biases, and there is a big gray area where almost all of us fall between "stone cold racist" and "color blind" and it's various levels of preference, comfort, ease, confidence in those like YOU.

FWIW, I'll admit my biases because I live in the South and we have a long history of overt and state supported racism, and it lasted well into MY lifetime, and it just is not at all dead here. If I was talented and black, I'd move, and most do.
 
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