• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

I've never gotten any privilege in my life. Everything was work, everything was struggle. I'm a white Christian male. Tell me how privileged I am due to the color of my skin.

I think you're misunderstanding what the term means. Essentially it only refers to the fact that white males don't suffer from any externally imposed barriers. People of other races/religions/females do. In my part of the world, in my lifetime, that privilege was state sanctioned and state enforced. Mountains of evidence indicate the barriers are still real and still very significant, many of them a function of the centuries of state sanctioned privilege, explicit and implicit.

It's also undoubtedly true that the most significant privilege is being born into wealth or privilege, and it so happens that in part because of centuries of explicit and implicit state sanctioned white male privilege that almost all people born into wealth and privilege are still white and so have large advantages over other whites, and other races.

I could keep going, cite all the studies, the hiring studies, attitudes of jurors, arrest rates, search rates, etc. but they all point in the same direction - white privilege is real. And it does NOT mean that being born white is the ticket to success. That requires hard work for everyone but the trust fund babies. What it does mean is success is somewhat/slightly/hugely (depending on the region/profession, etc) more difficult for non-whites and women. That is, there is a real advantage to being white, especially a white Christian male.
 
Last edited:
I've never gotten any privilege in my life. Everything was work, everything was struggle. I'm a white Christian male. Tell me how privileged I am due to the color of my skin.





"...2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
...
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
...
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
..
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
...
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
..
 
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

...
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
..
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
...

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social."

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack by Peggy McIntosh
Also good: http://www.buzzfeed.com/michaelblackmon/17-harrowing-examples-of-white-privilege-9hu9#.nhXbNw951a
On Racism and White Privilege | Teaching Tolerance
 
The two are not inconsistent.

In libertarian fantasies only. In real life, business discrimination can have as much or more impact as governmental discrimination.
 
In libertarian fantasies only. In real life, business discrimination can have as much or more impact as governmental discrimination.

I don't doubt it. But people have recourse with respect to business discrimination. They can vote with their dollars. You really can't do that with the government.
 
I don't doubt it. But people have recourse with respect to business discrimination. They can vote with their dollars. You really can't do that with the government.

You can't vote with your dollars if you live in a small town or isolated location and need fresh groceries. You can't vote with your dollars if the local hospital won't treat you and you're quickly bleeding to death.
 
I don't doubt it. But people have recourse with respect to business discrimination. They can vote with their dollars. You really can't do that with the government.

You can vote them out. That is the recourse with government. Dollars run loops and not be very purchase is direct. How do you withhold your dollars from Monsanto? Or your local electric monopoly?
 
Well when you have something specific you want to discuss, let me know. "Race" is like saying "stuff".

Stuff can be anything - race is specific to skin color. It's not like saying stuff at all.
 
I think you're misunderstanding what the term means. Essentially it only refers to the fact that white males don't suffer from any externally imposed barriers. People of other races/religions/females do. In my part of the world, in my lifetime, that privilege was state sanctioned and state enforced. Mountains of evidence indicate the barriers are still real and still very significant, many of them a function of the centuries of state sanctioned privilege, explicit and implicit.
I don't think that's true. I had an external barrier based on economics - I came from a poor family. No one gave us anything. I used the GI bill to go to college or else I'd be digging ditches for a living. I like many minorities that were with me in the Army did the same thing.

It's also undoubtedly true that the most significant privilege is being born into wealth or privilege, and it so happens that in part because of centuries of explicit and implicit state sanctioned white male privilege that almost all people born into wealth and privilege are still white and so have large advantages over other whites, and other races.
I can see the rich having privilege because they have the money to benefit them and buy themselves and the influence money provides them, in higher social circles. However, rich does not equal white. Rich also does not equal wealth.


I could keep going, cite all the studies, the hiring studies, attitudes of jurors, arrest rates, search rates, etc. but they all point in the same direction - white privilege is real. And it does NOT mean that being born white is the ticket to success. That requires hard work for everyone but the trust fund babies. What it does mean is success is somewhat/slightly/hugely (depending on the region/profession, etc) more difficult for non-whites and women. That is, there is a real advantage to being white, especially a white Christian male.
You can get a study to say anything - the economically wealthy can hire someone to do a study that says whatever they want it to say. Cigarette companies did this in the 1950's to cover up how they were peddling cancer. Studies don't mean anything unless what is being said resonates with the average citizen. The BS that white = success is just that, BS. I'm successful because I worked my ass off to be MORE successful than my parents one of which was an immigrant to this country. This is simply more of the "you didn't build that" tripe.... not buying.
 
"...2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
...
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
...
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
..
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
...
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
..

A list of more horse**** would be difficult to find. Congratulations.
#25 - unless of course the person or organization is a Conservative - then they're singled out due to their political preference. :lamo
 
You can't vote with your dollars if you live in a small town or isolated location and need fresh groceries. You can't vote with your dollars if the local hospital won't treat you and you're quickly bleeding to death.

The former is exception not the rule. Most people have choices.

Hospitals are not dry cleaners a different set of rules should apply.
 
Last edited:
I've never gotten any privilege in my life. Everything was work, everything was struggle. I'm a white Christian male. Tell me how privileged I am due to the color of my skin.

And yet non-whites can work just as hard, and struggle just as much and still be denied, detained, dehumanized. That's where your white, male, Christian privilege comes in. You see results when you struggle, many non-whites and their communities (and females of all color) only see their feet being kicked out from under them every time they try to stand.
 
Is this where everyone has to buy into the BS white privilege nonsense or we all get labeled as racists? Progressive trolls don't want to seriously talk about issues or truths... they need a comment to help further divide and segregate the population for political benefits of their party. Paul is very smart, very poignant and

Thanks to the OP poster for not actually providing any factual information or context such as this from his own link:



The issue is about being jailed without a trial and without being found guilty - and the kid committing suicide because he was jailed illegally.

What was illegal about his being held at Rikers?
 
You can vote them out. That is the recourse with government. Dollars run loops and not be very purchase is direct. How do you withhold your dollars from Monsanto? Or your local electric monopoly?

I assume you're talking about discriminatory hiring practices? Why can't consumers simply decide not to purchase someone's products? It's happened before. Sponsors are always distancing themselves from their reps who say stupid things for Lear of lost sales.

Utilities are regulated monopolies. The rules of the free market really don't apply.
 
I assume you're talking about discriminatory hiring practices? Why can't consumers simply decide not to purchase someone's products? It's happened before. Sponsors are always distancing themselves from their reps who say stupid things for Lear of lost sales.

Utilities are regulated monopolies. The rules of the free market really don't apply.

Just talking about companies that are not much effected by direct public purchasing of their products or services.
 
What was illegal about his being held at Rikers?

Educate yourself about the subject matter first and then come back with a more intelligent question.
 
And yet non-whites can work just as hard, and struggle just as much and still be denied, detained, dehumanized.
That applies to anyone regardless of skin color or ethnicity.

That's where your white, male, Christian privilege comes in.
Prove it.

You see results when you struggle, many non-whites and their communities (and females of all color) only see their feet being kicked out from under them every time they try to stand.
Incorrect, I did not see results as part of my struggles, which is why I joined the Army and why many minorities with whom I served did the same thing. You see, while superficial political word games throwing around PC terms like "white privilege" jazzes up Progressives, it turns off the rest of America who know it's bull**** since we lived through it. Black. White. Latino. You name it.

It's certainly good fodder for the 1% upper crust to discuss over 60 thousand dollar a plate political dinners though, and the dopes who buy into it.
 
That applies to anyone regardless of skin color or ethnicity.

Prove it.

Incorrect, I did not see results as part of my struggles, which is why I joined the Army and why many minorities with whom I served did the same thing. You see, while superficial political word games throwing around PC terms like "white privilege" jazzes up Progressives, it turns off the rest of America who know it's bull**** since we lived through it. Black. White. Latino. You name it.

It's certainly good fodder for the 1% upper crust to discuss over 60 thousand dollar a plate political dinners though, and the dopes who buy into it.

Then you're the exception the general reality. Just because there's a white christian male bias in our systems doesn't mean every white christian male is guaranteed to benefit from it. It just means that theirs a must higher percentage of white males benefiting/succeeding compared to non-whites. Also indicates a less likelihood, but not impossible, of being treated poorly simply because of being a certain color or religion or gender or sexual preference.
 
Then you're the exception the general reality. Just because there's a white christian male bias in our systems doesn't mean every white christian male is guaranteed to benefit from it. It just means that theirs a must higher percentage of white males benefiting/succeeding compared to non-whites. Also indicates a less likelihood, but not impossible, of being treated poorly simply because of being a certain color or religion or gender or sexual preference.

And that's my point - there are millions of exceptions with white skin. The issue isn't skin color but economic wealth. Privilege comes with wealth not skin color.
 
And that's my point - there are millions of exceptions with white skin. The issue isn't skin color but economic wealth. Privilege comes with wealth not skin color.
That is part of it, but it's not all of it. I can see you're too personally bitter to see that. So be it.
 
And that's my point - there are millions of exceptions with white skin. The issue isn't skin color but economic wealth. Privilege comes with wealth not skin color.

So racism is dead? Conscious and subconscious? If it's not, and given that almost all the real power is still held by whites, mostly white males, then being something other than white comes with a disadvantage. It's really that simple.
 
Educate yourself about the subject matter first and then come back with a more intelligent question.

IOW, it was perfectly legal so you're going to run away from my challenge

I thought the illegal part was being held without formal charges, no?

You can be jailed, for a limited time, without being charged and the article doesn't say he wasn't charged.
 
So racism is dead? Conscious and subconscious? If it's not, and given that almost all the real power is still held by whites, mostly white males, then being something other than white comes with a disadvantage. It's really that simple.

Power is no longer exclusive to whites. There are a lot of other races in power. And even though a lot of "power positions" are held by white people, it does not do a damn thing for other 99% of white americans. The way our country works, very few in poverty ever get out of poverty. More people fall into poverty than climb out. And most of those who do climb out of poverty only make it to about lower middle class if they are lucky. The reason you see so little people of color who do get into power is because those in power, and those who control their money after they have left power, do not concede power. And since it is near impossible for anyone of any race to go from poverty to powerful in America, many minorities are trapped into that system. But so are all the poor white people. Poor is poor, and rich is rich. Money is what matters. Rich white kids do get more opportunities and priveledges than poor black kids, but along those same lines, rich black kids get more opportunities and priveledges than poor white kids. It is the GREEN that matters not white, black, brown or yellow. I happen to be the same race as some of the richest people in America, and as it turns out, they don't share with me either. Some of you can say white people get more, but 20 million people struggling would disagree and would disagree that thier white skin has afforded them any extra benefits.
 
Stuff can be anything - race is specific to skin color. It's not like saying stuff at all.

Saying someone is not honest about race is the same as saying people are not honest in discussing stuff. It is an unframed position.
 
Back
Top Bottom