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American Pharoah wins Triple Crown

Middleground said:
The last time I witnessed a horse win the triple crown, I was 11 years old. The following year, Spectacular Bid narrowly failed to become the 4th horse in 7 years to win the TC in the 70s. Back then I thought it was too easy... LOL. Cue 37 years later, and we have our 12th winner. Amazing. I was doubtful AP had the class to win, but he proved me wrong.
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I was 12 the last time I saw one win it. It was Seattle Slew in 77'. I watched Secretariat do it in 73' also when I was 8 years old, but missed Affirmed in 78'.
 
Middleground said:
Actually, Secretariat did not run as a 4 year-old. Soon after the Belmont, he was syndicated for $7 million, a crazy amount for that time. He did race about 4 times after the Belmont, and ran his last race in Canada, in the Canadian International on the grass.
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My mistake - thanks - I was thinking his Canadian International was in his 4yr old year.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I wouldn't run him again, too much risk, the reward is already set in stone.
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I can agree, but the racing public and media will pretty much demand it - how much will NBC put on the table to get him to run in the Breeder's Cup Classic?
 
Chomsky said:
I agree.

He was the Micheal Jordan & Wayne Gretzky of Thoroughbreds!

(I avoid references to Man o' War due to different eras)

I forgot about Northern Dancer, but you're right.

You might be interested in Blood Horse' rankings, if you haven't seen them:

(Northern Dancer is ranked 7th - scroll-down several pages to the contents)

Thoroughbred Champions: Top 100 Racehorses of the 20th Century
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Thanks for sharing that - I was speaking more to stud fees and the progeny of Northern Dancer who's seen as the sire/grandsire/greatgrandsire of champion horses throughout the latter years of the 20th century. Northern Dancer didn't complete the Triple Crown, his owners great proponents of Canadian racing, and he ran in the Queen's Plate instead of the Belmont because they were too close together. He won the Canadian Triple Crown but Americans don't think much of that, discrediting his Kentucky Derby and Preakness because of it. But Northern Dancer can be seen in the bloodlines of a lot of great horses the last half-century.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I can agree, but the racing public and media will pretty much demand it - how much will NBC put on the table to get him to run in the Breeder's Cup Classic?
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I can agree with that, that would be the tough part in the decision because you do need to give the fans what they want. That horse deserves his rest after this accomplishment and one just has to do the pro-con on this one. With those stud fees, so much back end risk.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I can agree with that, that would be the tough part in the decision because you do need to give the fans what they want. That horse deserves his rest after this accomplishment and one just has to do the pro-con on this one. With those stud fees, so much back end risk.
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It's being reported this morning that the owners and trainer intend to run him again this year, with his next race being one of the stakes races at Saratoga or the Haskell in Monmouth/New Jersey as his next race leading up to the Breeder's Cup Classic. The owners are based in New Jersey and favour going to the Haskell as supporting their home base. The owners are also quoted as saying the people who bought he stud rights have no say in whether he runs again or not - that tells me the only issue is whether American Pharoah remains sound and comes back training well in the late summer.
 
I cried. I bawled. It's been a long 37 years. It's no secret that I'm a gigantic horse racing fan. My name is a recently retired race horse. I spent my entire life around horses, including a lot of time at the track.

I remember watching Secretariat when it happened in 1973. I also remember Seattle Slew in 1977, and Affirmed in 1978. I watched every one of the near misses since then, and started to think it would never happen again, in my lifetime or beyond. I knew on Sunday he was going to win. He was peaking. His last work before the Belmont showed a fresh horse who had a lot to give. He as bred to be a "long distance sprinter", like Secretariat. I greatly admired his daddy Pioneerof the Nile (not a misspelling - the "of" ran right into "Pioneer" because of the limits on characters & spaces with the Jockey Club), and adored his granddaddy Empire Maker.

AP is a very very special horse. He has incredible class, an amazing gait, and a lot of heart.

I don't care for his trainer Bob Baffert and his owners the Zayats are a bit quirky, but I am so damn glad that this horse did it. And did it with style and with some left in the tank.
 
CanadaJohn said:
It's being reported this morning that the owners and trainer intend to run him again this year, with his next race being one of the stakes races at Saratoga or the Haskell in Monmouth/New Jersey as his next race leading up to the Breeder's Cup Classic. The owners are based in New Jersey and favour going to the Haskell as supporting their home base. The owners are also quoted as saying the people who bought he stud rights have no say in whether he runs again or not - that tells me the only issue is whether American Pharoah remains sound and comes back training well in the late summer.
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He will run again this year. Probably 3 times. They're considering the Travers or Jim Dandy (Saratoga), Pacific Classic (Del Mar) if they don't go to Saratoga, and the Haskell (Monmouth). And of course the Breeders Club Classic.
 
LaMidRighter said:
There may not be a choice. Leg injuries are nearly always fatal to a horse, I forgot the name of the infection but it's nasty, it is beyond cruel to let them suffer with it.
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Laminitis? That's what did in Secretariat.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Thanks for sharing that - I was speaking more to stud fees and the progeny of Northern Dancer who's seen as the sire/grandsire/greatgrandsire of champion horses throughout the latter years of the 20th century. Northern Dancer didn't complete the Triple Crown, his owners great proponents of Canadian racing, and he ran in the Queen's Plate instead of the Belmont because they were too close together. He won the Canadian Triple Crown but Americans don't think much of that, discrediting his Kentucky Derby and Preakness because of it. But Northern Dancer can be seen in the bloodlines of a lot of great horses the last half-century.
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There was a recent Kentucky Derby where all 20 horses were direct descendants of Northern Dancer. He was without question the greatest stallion in history.
 
Middleground said:
A jockey will get fined for letting up/not trying. They were simply not good enough.
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Yes and no. They don't get in trouble for easing their horses down the stretch when there is obviously no chance of coming in the money. And that's what most owners & trainers want them to do. It's blatant easing when there is no reason to ease that gets them in trouble, like on the backstretch or even at the clubhouse turn. Frosted was really the only one trying to get to AP, but you could even see Rosario ease up on him. He knew there was no catching AP.
 
Middleground said:
One of the greatest moments in sports, that's for sure. Also, one of the greatest lines in sports, too:

"He's moving like a tremendous machine!" - Chic Anderson

BTW, it was also nice seeing Penny Chenery there yesterday. She still going strong at 92 years of age!
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I cry to this day when I see that. Chic Anderson said after the race he was so taken aback by what he was seeing that he couldn't even think of an appropriate term and that's what came to his mind. It's such a famous moment in sports calling.

I remember watching that race live on television. My mother cried. My father was speechless.

Jack Nicklaus said he watched that race alone in his living room, and he wept. He said all his life he had been striving for perfection and couldn't find it. He said that was the first time in his life that he saw perfection.

PS I will never, ever make the claim that AP is in Secretariat's league. AP is a great horse and a special horse. Secretariat was a once in history horse. I don't think we will ever see anyone like him again.
 
donsutherland1 said:
An interesting piece, especially for the longer-term trend for Belmont Stakes times:

American Pharoah’s A Superhorse, But He’s No Secretariat | FiveThirtyEight
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And he'd be correct. NOBODY was Secretariat, and nobody ever will be.

I think AP is a better horse than Affirmed, and quite possibly better than Seattle Slew, who I really loved. Slew's legacy isn't even so much the Triple Crown as it was his success as a stud, one of the 5 greatest in history.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I fully agree. It was nice to see that Ms. Chenery is still doing well. She was a classy owner throughout Secretariat's racing career and life.
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She was. She also loved Riva Ridge, who was a year older than Secretariat. She definitely adored her horses.
 
tres borrachos said:
I will never, ever make the claim that AP is in Secretariat's league. AP is a great horse and a special horse. Secretariat was a once in history horse. I don't think we will ever see anyone like him again.
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You need only look at the times, if nothing else. Over 40 years ago, Secretariat set the record for the Belmont and it'll never be touched. I'm still amazed at him going 1:09 and change for the opening 6 furlongs in a mile and a half race and still having lots left at the end. And when you look at the finishing times, Secretariat was over 2 and a half seconds faster - that's almost 15 lengths - in front of American Pharoah's time. And you look at over 40 years of improvements in training techniques, improvements in veterinary skills and treatments, track conditions, supplements, etc. and Secretariat's feat will never be matched.
 
tres borrachos said:
I cried. I bawled. It's been a long 37 years. It's no secret that I'm a gigantic horse racing fan. My name is a recently retired race horse. I spent my entire life around horses, including a lot of time at the track.

I remember watching Secretariat when it happened in 1973. I also remember Seattle Slew in 1977, and Affirmed in 1978. I watched every one of the near misses since then, and started to think it would never happen again, in my lifetime or beyond. I knew on Sunday he was going to win. He was peaking. His last work before the Belmont showed a fresh horse who had a lot to give. He as bred to be a "long distance sprinter", like Secretariat. I greatly admired his daddy Pioneerof the Nile (not a misspelling - the "of" ran right into "Pioneer" because of the limits on characters & spaces with the Jockey Club), and adored his granddaddy Empire Maker.

AP is a very very special horse. He has incredible class, an amazing gait, and a lot of heart.

I don't care for his trainer Bob Baffert and his owners the Zayats are a bit quirky, but I am so damn glad that this horse did it. And did it with style and with some left in the tank.
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That was a heartfelt & poignant post!

And it reminded me that those of us who were around in the seventies, got quite a bit spoiled as to the relative abundance of Triple Crown winners!
 
CanadaJohn said:
You need only look at the times, if nothing else. Over 40 years ago, Secretariat set the record for the Belmont and it'll never be touched. I'm still amazed at him going 1:09 and change for the opening 6 furlongs in a mile and a half race and still having lots left at the end. And when you look at the finishing times, Secretariat was over 2 and a half seconds faster - that's almost 15 lengths - in front of American Pharoah's time. And you look at over 40 years of improvements in training techniques, improvements in veterinary skills and treatments, track conditions, supplements, etc. and Secretariat's feat will never be matched.
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I agree CJ. Imagine any kind of sports record standing for 43 years (so far). It's impossible. Improvements in shoes, training, feed, track conditions, even the damn prenatal care they get - it is absolutely impossible for a speed record to stay intact that long, yet his has. That just goes to show he was the greatest that ever lived and probably ever will live.

I have some fellow racing fans who say that AP's showing was great, but he's no Secretariat. I keep telling them they need to stop comparing every horse to him. The way I see it is there was Secretariat, and then there was every other race horse in history. Compare them to each other, but don't ever compare anyone to him. It's just going to lead to disappointment. AP is a super horse who deserved his win, and he will forever be greatly admired by me - stubby tail and all.
 
Chomsky said:
That was a heartfelt & poignant post!

And it reminded me that those of us who were around in the seventies, got quite a bit spoiled as to the relative abundance of Triple Crown winners!
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We waited 25 years for the first one of our lifetimes (Secretariat), and then had 2 more within 5 years. I'm kinda ashamed to admit it, but I wished Affirmed hadn't won his. He was a great horse, and Alydar did everything he could to try to stop it, but it almost lessened the impact of Slew's and to some degree, Secretariat's. There shouldn't be 3 TC winners in such close succession.

37 years. I still can't believe it was 37 years.
 
tres borrachos said:
We waited 25 years for the first one of our lifetimes (Secretariat), and then had 2 more within 5 years. I'm kinda ashamed to admit it, but I wished Affirmed hadn't won his. He was a great horse, and Alydar did everything he could to try to stop it, but it almost lessened the impact of Slew's and to some degree, Secretariat's. There shouldn't be 3 TC winners in such close succession.

37 years. I still can't believe it was 37 years.
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Very good points.

But we do get to say: "We saw Secretariat take the Belmont Stakes by 31"!

Does it get any better than that?

And - how many horses get compared (seriously) to Man o' War?
 
Chomsky said:
Very good points.

But we do get to say: "We saw Secretariat take the Belmont Stakes by 31"!

Does it get any better than that?

And - how many horses get compared (seriously) to Man o' War?
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I get to say it. :mrgreen: I saw it. I was only 11 but remember it like it was yesterday. And you're right, it doesn't get any better than that. My kids have all seen the clip of his race many times, since they were little and YouTube made it possible. We went to see his birthplace in Virginia (the old Meadow Farm). His foaling barn is still there. We saw his grave at Claiborne Farm. My kids were raised on that horse. I saw him once, about a year before he died, at Claiborne. What a magnificent beast he was.

Man O War, he was a special guy too. An American icon. Did you know his funeral was broadcasted on the radio and his body lay in state? Here's his funeral:



Lying in state:

Man%20o%20War%20funeral04.11-4-47.JSBL_.jpg
 
'American Pharoah' owners drop by Morning Joe | MSNBC

By the way, the Zayats were on Morning Joe this morning. Zayat said he was pointing him towards the Haskell (his "most probably next race at Monmouth"). It was a very fun interview. I love Joanne Zayat. And if I was 30 years younger and single, I'd fall in love with Justin who I think is just adorable. You can see the clip in the link above.
 
SlevinKelevra said:
My point was that it seemed to me that you seemed to find that unusual or uncommon?
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Well, I was actually thinking about the last few "oh this horse almost has a triple crown" races I've seen.

That kind of dominating lead wasn't really a thing in those races, if my memory is accurate.
 
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