• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

roguenuke said:
How about forgetting your child on the roof of your car?

snopes.com: Baby Left on Car Roof



And according to snopes, that is just a one of about 14 incidents like it that happened prior to 1993.
Click to expand...

OMG! Well that makes all the difference in the world! One guy forgot he laid his car seat on the roof of a car in 1980. Okay, I stand corrected. No parent should worry about their children in car seats again. If the kid dies, hey, it's just a mistake.

:roll:
 
roguenuke said:
You said that people don't ever not know where their children are. Even told someone to ask any parent. I am a parent and I know how my brain works to at least some degree. I know what I've told people and, although I've never personally forgotten my children somewhere dangerous, I have forgot who they were with when asked or where exactly they were (hell I "lost" my son while breastfeeding him one time, kept asking my family where my son was and they kept pointing out the older one, because no one thought I could be talking about the youngest, who was attached to my breast at that moment, our brains don't always give us the right clues or connect them the right way). Even good parents forget where their children are sometimes or don't think about their children for long portions of time if they believe that their children are where they are supposed to be, somewhere safe.
Click to expand...

Not knowing where your child is for a couple minutes is not the same as leaving them in a car for 8+ hours. Kids wander off, they have a knack for it. Difference is you realized after a few minutes and looked for your child. He didn't die because you neglected him all day strapped in an oven. You cant compare two different scenarios that have one common factor at opposite ends of extreme and compare them. Slapping someone and beating them relentlessly with a bat are technically both forms of assault but they totally different things.
 
tres borrachos said:
OMG! Well that makes all the difference in the world! One guy forgot he laid his car seat on the roof of a car in 1980. Okay, I stand corrected. No parent should worry about their children in car seats again. If the kid dies, hey, it's just a mistake.

:roll:
Click to expand...

Wow, way to change your argument. You said to show you where someone before the 90s forgot their child somewhere. Do you think most of those (14 confirmed) incidents didn't make the news?

It shows that people can forget their children in different scenarios, that it really isn't "this generation", and that the issue with forgetting them in the car is so big because of the circumstances of how heat or cold can work in a car, how the child is trapped even if they could otherwise move around on their own and the increased dire consequences of doing so.
 
Kreton said:
Not knowing where your child is for a couple minutes is not the same as leaving them in a car for 8+ hours. Kids wander off, they have a knack for it. Difference is you realized after a few minutes and looked for your child. He didn't die because you neglected him all day strapped in an oven. You cant compare two different scenarios that have one common factor at opposite ends of extreme and compare them. Slapping someone and beating them relentlessly with a bat are technically both forms of assault but they totally different things.
Click to expand...

No, all parents don't. That simply isn't how memory works. I read about children being lost/left in airports, and most of the parents had no clue the child wasn't with them until airport/airline personnel contacted them. Again the reason people remember is due to clues they are given, most of the time, even if it is a stray thought that tangentially leads to remembering the child. In many other circumstances, you can forget your child, and they will be found or fine if left for hours because of not being confined in a small space that amplifies heat or traps cold. It has a lot to do with the difference in time windows to get to the children. I'm willing to bet many, many parents have forgotten their child at home. But since our homes generally keep us protected from the elements, there is little risk of heat stroke or hypothermia, which are the main causes of death for a child left in a car. And when forgotten in public, children are going to be seen or heard so that someone can notify the parent.
 
roguenuke said:
No, all parents don't. That simply isn't how memory works. I read about children being lost/left in airports, and most of the parents had no clue the child wasn't with them until airport/airline personnel contacted them. Again the reason people remember is due to clues they are given, most of the time, even if it is a stray thought that tangentially leads to remembering the child. In many other circumstances, you can forget your child, and they will be found or fine if left for hours because of not being confined in a small space that amplifies heat or traps cold. It has a lot to do with the difference in time windows to get to the children. I'm willing to bet many, many parents have forgotten their child at home. But since our homes generally keep us protected from the elements, there is little risk of heat stroke or hypothermia, which are the main causes of death for a child left in a car. And when forgotten in public, children are going to be seen or heard so that someone can notify the parent.
Click to expand...

We are going in circles now. I am not ok with people neglecting their child and causing their needless deaths. No matter how you try to word it I am not ok with parents killing their children and using oops to justify it.

Any decent parent, hell any half way decent parent does not forget to care for their children for hours. When a child is in your care you should be very aware of it. If a parent and a child are at home, especially a small child, I expect that that parent is watching that child. Not forgetting the child and going grocery shopping and leaving the child home all day. That is some of the dumbest **** I have ever heard. If someone is so unaware of their surroundings that they are incapable of remembering not to kill their children, or cant remember to bring their 18 month old child with them when they leave so the kid isnt home all day, that person should not ever have a child left in their care.
 
Kreton said:
We are going in circles now. I am not ok with people neglecting their child and causing their needless deaths. No matter how you try to word it I am not ok with parents killing their children and using oops to justify it.

Any decent parent, hell any half way decent parent does not forget to care for their children for hours. When a child is in your care you should be very aware of it. If a parent and a child are at home, especially a small child, I expect that that parent is watching that child. Not forgetting the child and going grocery shopping and leaving the child home all day. That is some of the dumbest **** I have ever heard. If someone is so unaware of their surroundings that they are incapable of remembering not to kill their children, or cant remember to bring their 18 month old child with them when they leave so the kid isnt home all day, that person should not ever have a child left in their care.
Click to expand...

That's just it, these parents don't believe the child is in their care. They almost certainly believe that the child is safe with another caregiver or wherever they are supposed to normally be. They aren't doing it on purpose.
 
What a mess, the last similar case I read about was the fault of some gay pothead who had fun with his boyfriend while his adopted child was stiving in a hot car.
 
roguenuke said:
That's just it, these parents don't believe the child is in their care. They almost certainly believe that the child is safe with another caregiver or wherever they are supposed to normally be. They aren't doing it on purpose.
Click to expand...

These parents don't believe the child is in their care? One adult takes one child and straps that child into a vehicle. That one adult begins to drive that vehicle. Still just the one adult and one child in the car. Who exactly do they think is caring for the child if they don't think it is them? Did she think the dad was going to teleport in? Or that infants come with built in nannies?
 
Bodhisattva said:
I don't see a point to debating with you when you don't even know basic English. I said I skimmed it. Skimming is not making an informed decision.

: to look over or read (something) quickly

Skim | Definition of skim by Merriam-Webster
Click to expand...
Exactly, yet you defend an uninformed position.
Your problem on extarplating and cherry picking what suits your pPOV.
Any proof yet on Parent s being hardwired to wake at a moments
And I have a general idea of what skim means.
While I am not to bright at times, I tend not to be stupid all the time.

Bodhisattva said:
I could care less what his qualifications are... a parent in a dead sleep will wake at the slightest odd sound from a baby. Parents brains are wired for their baby.

Again, that psychobabble bull**** excuse for forgetting a child is pathetic...
Click to expand...


Any proof on that all parent wake at the slightest odd sound? Still waiting on that one.
Hate to be hangin while waiting.
 
JANFU said:
Exactly, yet you defend an uninformed position.
Your problem on extarplating and cherry picking what suits your pPOV.
Any proof yet on Parent s being hardwired to wake at a moments
And I have a general idea of what skim means.
While I am not to bright at times, I tend not to be stupid all the time.
Click to expand...

The grammar in this section is so bad that I literally cringed when reading it...

Any proof on that all parent wake at the slightest odd sound? Still waiting on that one.
Hate to be hangin while waiting.
Click to expand...

I am not that interested in finding some study on what I, and many parents that I have talked to about it, already know... Have a kid and learn something new.
 
xdangerousxdave said:
What a mess, the last similar case I read about was the fault of some gay pothead who had fun with his boyfriend while his adopted child was stiving in a hot car.
Click to expand...

"the Gays" are evils I tell ya!
 
Bodhisattva said:
The grammar in this section is so bad that I literally cringed when reading it...



I am not that interested in finding some study on what I, and many parents that I have talked to about it, already know... Have a kid and learn something new.
Click to expand...

Typing fast, English is my first language, you cringed, wow.
But you understood it. Good for you.
I have a kid.
You have no proof other than your personal opinion, yet I have offered scientific studies.
You do have a habit of shying away, like a Vampire and Holy Water from science based studies.
And you cherry pick, then cannot rebut my points.
I can understand why you are upset and do not wish to debate the science.


Now take this whatever way you wish to
I have terrible grammar, yet now it is an issue with you.
Man you do have some serious nitpicking issues to address.
Try attending to those while looking for science based studies where parents address this point you make which is ludicrous to say the least and bull crap to say the worst..

Bodhisattva said:
I could care less what his qualifications are... a parent in a dead sleep will wake at the slightest odd sound from a baby. Parents brains are wired for their baby.

Again, that psychobabble bull**** excuse for forgetting a child is pathetic...
Click to expand...
 
JANFU said:
Typing fast, English is my first language, you cringed, wow.
But you understood it. Good for you.
I have a kid.
You have no proof other than your personal opinion, yet I have offered scientific studies.
You do have a habit of shying away, like a Vampire and Holy Water from science based studies.
And you cherry pick, then cannot rebut my points.
I can understand why you are upset and do not wish to debate the science.


Now take this whatever way you wish to
I have terrible grammar, yet now it is an issue with you.
Man you do have some serious nitpicking issues to address.
Try attending to those while looking for science based studies where parents address this point you make which is ludicrous to say the least and bull crap to say the worst..
Click to expand...

I pointed out a logical flaw in your argument, not the science itself. So... wrong on that one...

and: How Becoming a Father Changes Your Brain | WIRED
 
Bodhisattva said:
I pointed out a logical flaw in your argument, not the science itself. So... wrong on that one...

and: How Becoming a Father Changes Your Brain | WIRED
Click to expand...

No logical flaw on my part. You attacked me telling me to have a kid.
Where is my logical flaw on that.
Yes you were attacking the science.
Then my bad /poor grammar. Oh dear, how you must have cringed, did it bring tears to your eyes?

As to your link, still does not address the point you made, now does it.
Read you link.


Bodhisattva said:
I could care less what his qualifications are... a parent in a dead sleep will wake at the slightest odd sound from a baby. Parents brains are wired for their baby.

Again, that psychobabble bull**** excuse for forgetting a child is pathetic...
Click to expand...
 
JANFU said:
No logical flaw on my part. You attacked me telling me to have a kid.
Where is my logical flaw on that.
Yes you were attacking the science.
Then my bad /poor grammar. Oh dear, how you must have cringed, did it bring tears to your eyes?

As to your link, still does not address the point you made, now does it.
Read you link.
Click to expand...

It goes to show that the parent brain wires itself to the needs of the child. Anyway, this has become retarded and I am moving on from this sophistry...
 
roguenuke said:
Wow, way to change your argument. You said to show you where someone before the 90s forgot their child somewhere. Do you think most of those (14 confirmed) incidents didn't make the news?

It shows that people can forget their children in different scenarios, that it really isn't "this generation", and that the issue with forgetting them in the car is so big because of the circumstances of how heat or cold can work in a car, how the child is trapped even if they could otherwise move around on their own and the increased dire consequences of doing so.
Click to expand...

No, I said I don't remember anyone leaving a child in his/her car and going on about his/her business for 8 hours. You obviously had to scour the internet to find a story from 1980 about a single person doing it, as if that is somehow backing up your moronic claims that it's easy to forget about your kid for 8 hours. I'll show you a link about Ted Bundy from 1980 killing dozens of women in multiple states over a period of 10 years. Wow, I guess that's enough to prove that it's not so extraordinary for men to go on multi-state killing sprees because their brains are wired that way.
 
roguenuke said:
No, all parents don't. That simply isn't how memory works. I read about children being lost/left in airports, and most of the parents had no clue the child wasn't with them until airport/airline personnel contacted them. Again the reason people remember is due to clues they are given, most of the time, even if it is a stray thought that tangentially leads to remembering the child. In many other circumstances, you can forget your child, and they will be found or fine if left for hours because of not being confined in a small space that amplifies heat or traps cold. It has a lot to do with the difference in time windows to get to the children. I'm willing to bet many, many parents have forgotten their child at home. But since our homes generally keep us protected from the elements, there is little risk of heat stroke or hypothermia, which are the main causes of death for a child left in a car. And when forgotten in public, children are going to be seen or heard so that someone can notify the parent.
Click to expand...

FFS show a link about a child being lost/left in an airport for 8 hours.
 
Forget their child at home? Or in an airport? I am very forgetful and my memory sucks but there has never ever been a time I just forgot my child. I'm willing to take the bet that those people who forgot their kids didn't forget to check their Facebook to see what their second closest friend from grade school ate for lunch.
 
Last edited:
americanwoman said:
Forget their child at home? Or in an airport? I am very forgetful and my memory sucks but there has never ever been a time I just forgot my child. I'm willing to take the bet that those people who forgot their kids didn't forget to check their Facebook to see what their second closest friend from grade school ate for lunch.
Click to expand...

Many of those happened before Facebook, or even a popular, useful internet.
 
tres borrachos said:
Until the last 10-20 years or so, I never remember hearing of a parent forgetting a child. I never knew anyone who was accidentally left somewhere (with the exception of the movie Home Alone, which was supposed to be a farce). I never knew of anyone getting left on vacation, in the mall, in the hairdresser....nothing. If this phenomena is physical, I'd like to know how often this happened in history? Can anyone name a single instance of a famous story of some infant being simply left somewhere because the parents "forgot" about him/her?
Click to expand...

This is your post. You asked for a single incident of a child being forgot somewhere, and the article link I posted had several, and said there were a confirmed 14 in a span of about 20 years of kids being forgotten in their car seats on roofs of cars. There are thousands of parents (that I can find with a fairly quick search) that admit to forgetting their children somewhere, at home, at an airport, at the store or restaurant, or even in the car, just they remembered before the child died. And not all of those 700+ children who died were forgotten. Some were intentionally left behind because the parent thought they wouldn't be that long. Some climbed in on their own. And then there's the guy who is believed to have left the child to die, but that is a whole other situation. The children in car seats on top of the car were likely there for less than five minutes, yet they were forgotten. Some of those parents had morning drives taking them 15, 30 minutes, or more, and they had to be at least concentrating on driving.

As I've said before, the reason we don't hear about the other incidents is because they are not nearly as likely to result in death, even if the child is left for hours.
 
roguenuke said:
This is your post. You asked for a single incident of a child being forgot somewhere, and the article link I posted had several, and said there were a confirmed 14 in a span of about 20 years of kids being forgotten in their car seats on roofs of cars. There are thousands of parents (that I can find with a fairly quick search) that admit to forgetting their children somewhere, at home, at an airport, at the store or restaurant, or even in the car, just they remembered before the child died. And not all of those 700+ children who died were forgotten. Some were intentionally left behind because the parent thought they wouldn't be that long. Some climbed in on their own. And then there's the guy who is believed to have left the child to die, but that is a whole other situation. The children in car seats on top of the car were likely there for less than five minutes, yet they were forgotten. Some of those parents had morning drives taking them 15, 30 minutes, or more, and they had to be at least concentrating on driving.

As I've said before, the reason we don't hear about the other incidents is because they are not nearly as likely to result in death, even if the child is left for hours.
Click to expand...

You haven't posted examples from 20 and 30 and 40 years ago of parents forgetting their children for over 8 hours while they were at work. Pay attention to what we're talking about. It isn't forgetting to pick up your child at a birthday party or forgetting about your child for 15 minutes.

You are determined to give this woman a pass. Go right ahead. I'm not going to. I don't excuse the death of an innocent and helpless child.

And where are your links to stories about people forgetting their children in an airport for 8 hours?
 
tres borrachos said:
You haven't posted examples from 20 and 30 and 40 years ago of parents forgetting their children for over 8 hours while they were at work. Pay attention to what we're talking about. It isn't forgetting to pick up your child at a birthday party or forgetting about your child for 15 minutes.

You are determined to give this woman a pass. Go right ahead. I'm not going to. I don't excuse the death of an innocent and helpless child.

And where are your links to stories about people forgetting their children in an airport for 8 hours?
Click to expand...

And again you change the demand. That isn't what you were asking for. You moved the goal posts.

I never said they were forgotten for 8 hours. It's hard to forget a child for that long in a public place because there are other people there, not because the parents remembered. Many of the parents were on the plane, some already in the air when they got informed or realized, and in most cases, there was more than one family member flying, all not realizing the child wasn't with them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom