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Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

And you.... are okay with that????

So you don't care what positions a candidate takes on issues, or what type of representative your area needs because those in power are going to keep grabbing more power at their leisure?

Do you stay home on election day?

Or, in this proposition... are "The People" the "rulers"?
If so... do you believe our government should be a pure democracy then?

Sorry to burst your bubble. It's reality, what I am "okay with" doesn't matter.

There is no set universal standard of why government exists. The rulers get to chose that.

In the US, "we the people" are the rulers. We have EXACTLY the government that the aggregate voters desire. We modify this government slightly ever year to keep up with the changing desires. Our government might not be exactly what any one individual wishes it to be, but no one individual is "the aggregate voter".

Of course I care as an individual what position a candidate takes, but my opinion doesn't control government. I live in reality world, you live in a fantasy world where you and you alone apparently get to define "the purpose of government" by yourself? Are you King of the Land of Nod?
 
Look at your history books. Only a real revolution will fix the problem.

The US has become no different with what is happening in imperial Russia where a very small minority hold 95% of all the wealth of the land.

I work long and hard hours for my money. I don't want to give up my hard earned money. I believe I deserve more money than those people.

We have a small revolution the second Tuesday of each November. Some participate, most chose not to.
 
RULERS?

our federal government does not exist to do whatever it wants, you know that's not true and giving me a simplistic reply shows you cannot back that up.

In reality land it does, although it may not in your libertarian fantasy world. I live in reality land.
 
Lot's of people become rich with no skills or hard work. Luck plays a huge factor. I guess it's fair to say that Bernie Madeoff had skills and worked hard though, he was skilled at conning people and worked hard at spending their money.


lots?

depends on what that means to you

some? yes

the paris hiltons, and kardashians of the world fit that bill

is that the "norm?" not that i have seen

but yes, some people do make it to the top through, fame, luck, or other traits.....other than hard work and great skills
 
is that the "norm?" not that i have seen

but yes, some people do make it to the top through, fame, luck, or other traits.....other than hard work and great skills

I think the more relevant observation is lots of people have considerable skills and work very hard and do not achieve great success - ahead of their time, bad luck, bad timing, events out of their control, sickness, natural disaster, family tragedies, etc. Many millions more work like dogs and don't have the skills that our current economy rewards, such as most creative or academic skills, teaching, etc.
 
lots?

depends on what that means to you

some? yes

the paris hiltons, and kardashians of the world fit that bill

is that the "norm?" not that i have seen

but yes, some people do make it to the top through, fame, luck, or other traits.....other than hard work and great skills

Yea, basically anyone who inherits, or is given a position via cronyism or nepotism, or who wins the lottery or who becomes famous overnight due to happenstance, etc.

For every singer/rock star/author/etc who hit's the big time, there are a thousand others who have worked just as hard and are just as good and talented. Sometimes life is about having just the right face at the right time and place.
 
Yea, basically anyone who inherits, or is given a position via cronyism or nepotism, or who wins the lottery or who becomes famous overnight due to happenstance, etc.

A whole lot of union employees then. :mrgreen:
 
A whole lot of union employees then. :mrgreen:

So most union employees are rich?

Just how are we defining rich these days?

I'm really talking about the Mit Romneys and Bill Gates of the world, - people who's 'rents and buddies hooked them up with million dollar contracts.
 
So most union employees are rich?

Just how are we defining rich these days?

Well, if we're going to do away with cronyism and nepotism quite a few union employees wouldn't have jobs. The problem with leveling the playing field is all the top and half the middle get lowered in the doing.
 
Well, I've got just the cure for them: watch Fox News so they can listen to corporate-funded talking heads tell them that they're engaging in "class warfare" for expressing concern over the growing inequality gap.

So no one but Fox has any corporate funding? Would you like to bet on that?
 
What you are attacking is communism. We both don't like communism. I just want moderate income inequality and a proportional amount of economic growth going to the poor and middle class.
Then try tithing or volunteering. But don't look to the politicians to do what individuals should be doing. They only encourage dependency in order to attract votes.
 
I think the more relevant observation is lots of people have considerable skills and work very hard and do not achieve great success - ahead of their time, bad luck, bad timing, events out of their control, sickness, natural disaster, family tragedies, etc. Many millions more work like dogs and don't have the skills that our current economy rewards, such as most creative or academic skills, teaching, etc.

some people have bad luck....

no denying that.....

and they can accept the help out there and pull themselves back up

and the ones that dont have the skills to get the "better" jobs.....

whose fault is that? what role did they play in the position they currently hold?

and more importantly, what are they doing to try and remedy that situation?

forgive my lack of sympathy for most of these people

i help those who actually try to help themselves

for instance.....saw a waitress really do well with a belligerent customer a few weeks back

wife and I watched the situation play out.....and this kid (she is 17) acted like a pro

she kept her cool, and after the idiot finally left i waved her over

she now works for me.....as a customer service rep.....

she has a lot of work ahead of her.....but i think and hope she is up to the task

will what i did change her life...i dunno....but it gives her a chance
 
some people have bad luck....

no denying that.....

and they can accept the help out there and pull themselves back up

and the ones that dont have the skills to get the "better" jobs.....

whose fault is that? what role did they play in the position they currently hold?

and more importantly, what are they doing to try and remedy that situation?

forgive my lack of sympathy for most of these people

i help those who actually try to help themselves

for instance.....saw a waitress really do well with a belligerent customer a few weeks back

wife and I watched the situation play out.....and this kid (she is 17) acted like a pro

she kept her cool, and after the idiot finally left i waved her over

she now works for me.....as a customer service rep.....

she has a lot of work ahead of her.....but i think and hope she is up to the task

will what i did change her life...i dunno....but it gives her a chance

I'm not really arguing with you about whose "fault" it all is. The problem is pretty systemic - there have always been good, bad, and mediocre workers and that's not ever going to change. And what bothers me when conversations go off on this tangent is it's really a way to change the focus from a macro trend, which is more and more income going to the top, and flat or falling wages and earnings for the vast majority to blaming it on individuals, so a micro look. If it's no one's fault but their own that society is allocating rising shares to the top 1%, globally, and that this isn't a change in the rules of the game, but a change in the worthiness of the bottom 80% to wages versus the top 1%, then we really CAN ignore all this and if someone whines, just say - it's your own damn fault. Sorry. And we can conclude that the modern day CEO is a productivity machine, far better than his cohorts in 1950, and deserves to be paid the modern day equivalent of royalty, with his heirs set up for life!

I don't believe that. The trends are macro, and even good workers are getting less pay and low raises in any particular job. When a plant closes and moves offshore and 500 people lose their jobs, there just do not exist equivalent jobs for the GOOD workers to move into. The jobs that do exist pay less. Sure, someone can rise above stocking shelves to management, but not everyone can and the person who DOES stock shelves is needed and either should or should not in a functioning system share in rising productivity and profits and be able to afford the basics on the income from that job. If not, then what do we do about that.

Saying, well that shelf person should work harder and if he did he'd make more money doesn't change that the next guy in his job cannot make it on that pay. If that job doesn't pay enough to afford healthcare then what do we do when that person or his kids get sick? The job won't go away, so blaming THAT guy for holding it isn't an answer.

Similarly, in that restaurant there are some probably ordinary waitresses. What do you think a reasonable expectation should be of them? If they're not extraordinary, they "deserve" financial insecurity and no healthcare insurance? If their kid gets sick, they have no one to blame but themselves for the bankruptcy, for doing an average job in an average vocation?
 
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I'm really talking about the Mit Romneys and Bill Gates of the world, - people who's 'rents and buddies hooked them up with million dollar contracts.
If only it was that easy. I doubt that's true in either of these cases.
 
When a plant closes and moves offshore and 500 people lose their jobs, there just do not exist equivalent jobs for the GOOD workers to move into.
Why does this plant close and why are they moving elsewhere? That's what everyone should be asking themselves.
The jobs that do exist pay less. Sure, someone can rise above stocking shelves to management, but not everyone can and the person who DOES stock shelves is needed and either should or should not in a functioning system share in rising productivity and profits and be able to afford the basics on the income from that job. If not, then what do we do about that.
There isn't much you can do. The glory years are over and the world has become more competitive. That's just the way it is.

Some countries, and people, can adapt to the modern world while others cannot, and governments are limited in what they can do. The US has always prided itself on hard work and initiative but that idea now appears old-fashioned and a more collective society has emerged, encouraged by politicians who say they can offer programs in order to turn things around. Many people still believe that in fact and ask themselves why the government doesn't do something.
Saying, well that shelf person should work harder and if he did he'd make more money doesn't change that the next guy in his job cannot make it on that pay. If that job doesn't pay enough to afford healthcare then what do we do when that person or his kids get sick? The job won't go away, so blaming THAT guy for holding it isn't an answer.
The idea has always been to work your way up or be satisfied with your position in life and find happiness in other areas. There is nothing demeaning in stocking shelves anyway. Honest work is often its own reward.
Similarly, in that restaurant there are some probably ordinary waitresses. What do you think a reasonable expectation should be of them? If they're not extraordinary, they "deserve" financial insecurity and no healthcare insurance? If their kid gets sick, they have no one to blame but themselves for the bankruptcy, for doing an average job in an average vocation?
That's largely why family, relationships, and good planning are important. Realizing you're largely on your own in this world and to take responsibility for your life is the first step toward genuine freedom. I, like many others, have profited greatly from 'the kindness of strangers' and have given kindness in return. The government often ruins those human relationships.
 
If only it was that easy. I doubt that's true in either of these cases.

Look it up, it's true.

Mit's dad was a governor, etc, and hooked him up with his first job.

Bill Gates mom financed microsoft for him, but more importantly she hooked him up with an IBM contract (his mother was buddies with the IBM CEO at the time).

It's perfectly possible to get "Millionare Next Door" rich by working hard for fourty or fifty years and living like a miser and saving like crazy, but "Millionare Next Door" type of wealth isn't even considered rich these days. Becoming Uber rich requires a lot of help from others along the way.
 
Lot's of people become rich with no skills or hard work. Luck plays a huge factor. I guess it's fair to say that Bernie Madeoff had skills and worked hard though, he was skilled at conning people and worked hard at spending their money.

So all right people are like Bernie Madeoff? Is Steve Jobs like Bernie Madeoff?
 
It's improving faster than at any point in history. Technology grows exponentially.

It is common knowledge that technology expended the fastest during the industrial revolution. We went from horses to cars. Now we just go from cars to hybrid cars.
 
Then try tithing or volunteering. But don't look to the politicians to do what individuals should be doing. They only encourage dependency in order to attract votes.

How will tithing and volunteering reduce income inequality?
 
How will tithing and volunteering reduce income inequality?
There will always be income equality. Always. "For you will always have the poor with you".

What we want to do is prevent human suffering. That can best be done by helping each other and allowing everyone the freedom to improve their lives.
 
Look it up, it's true. Mit's dad was a governor, etc, and hooked him up with his first job.
That's right but he was also, largely, a self made man. We can see repeatedly that being a Presidents son, governors son or any prominent person's son doesnt guarantee sucess. Certainly it may offer a step in the right direction but after that they're on their own. There are many, the current President included, who are successful without that start. The difference lies in taking any opportunity and dedication to hard work and an education. The education can often take many forms.
Mitt Romney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bill Gates mom financed microsoft for him, but more importantly she hooked him up with an IBM contract (his mother was buddies with the IBM CEO at the time).
And Bill Gates and partners did it largely on their own. They took advantage of an opportunity, one that IBM itself missed out on. Bill Gates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's perfectly possible to get "Millionare Next Door" rich by working hard for fourty or fifty years and living like a miser and saving like crazy, but "Millionare Next Door" type of wealth isn't even considered rich these days. Becoming Uber rich requires a lot of help from others along the way.
Is being "Uberrich" really that important? Has that become the meaning of life? Whatever happened to genuine spirituality and fulfillment from other aspects of being?
 
It is common knowledge that technology expended the fastest during the industrial revolution. We went from horses to cars. Now we just go from cars to hybrid cars.

We are moving from manufactured products and services to virtual products and services today, that's a far greater expansion of technology.
 
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