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Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

He already said it, a right to fight. He, as all the fringe right, is always spoiling for a fight.
Loves the US provocations to China,
which even the CFR has said should stop!

The provocations to China?
Are you joking?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

You're conflating two separate issues here. I have consistently said there is a venue for settling these disputes, and none of it involves building anything anywhere in advance of a settlement.

Ok, you've already condemn China for building on the islands as provocative and aggressive. I guess this here was a veiled attempt at acknowledging that Vietnam is also being threatening and aggressive!!!!
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Actually, what you've bolded is what you claim I think - not at all what I have said or think. And no, I'm not checking every claim - I'm looking at the particular one that poses the greatest problem.

There you go that's what I thought, just like everybody else that has their forgone conclusions on China, you don't need to look at all the claimants claims to see who's is the strongest, no objectivity necessary here, China IS the greatest problem. No wonder we get into so many unnecessary disputes.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

The provocations to China?
Are you joking?

Are you only asking if I'm joking, or are you questioning the senior fellows at the Council on Foreign Relations, too??
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Ok, you've already condemn China for building on the islands as provocative and aggressive. I guess this here was a veiled attempt at acknowledging that Vietnam is also being threatening and aggressive!!!!

Vietnam is hardly a threat to China - a fundamental reality you fail to acknowledge. That doesn't excuse Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan or any other claimant for their actions - it's a simple recognition of reality. Those countries individually pose no threat to China. China has violated international law and settlements it originally agreed to - i.e., broken their word as a nation and acted in an aggressive manner to militarily assert rights it doesn't have under the 1982 conventions as well as other agreements.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Here's two sound recommendations that the Council on Foreign Relations has for the United States if the interest is in defusing tensions.

First, the United States should ratify UNCLOS; though it voluntarily adheres to its principles and the Obama administration has made a commitment to ratify the convention, the fact that the United States has not yet ratified the treaty lends credence to the perception that it only abides by international conventions when doing so aligns with its national interests.

The United States should review its surveillance and reconnaissance activities in the air and waters bordering China's twelve-mile territorial sea and assess the feasibility of reducing their frequency or conducting the operations at a greater distance.

http://www.cfr.org/world/armed-clash-south-china-sea/p27883
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Vietnam is hardly a threat to China - a fundamental reality you fail to acknowledge. That doesn't excuse Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan or any other claimant for their actions - it's a simple recognition of reality. Those countries individually pose no threat to China. China has violated international law and settlements it originally agreed to - i.e., broken their word as a nation and acted in an aggressive manner to militarily assert rights it doesn't have under the 1982 conventions as well as other agreements.

Vietnam and China are long-standing enemies. The point is not that Vietnam threatens China but that it threatens what China perceives as its vital interests in the South China Sea, while inversely China clearly threatens what Vietnam sees as its vital interests there.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Lol. You think that's the extent of Chinese claims, or complaints.

No. It's indicative of China's lack of respect for agreements which they sign and their intent to aggressively and militarily claim what they couldn't by convention. It doesn't speak well in support of your argument that China is the abused nation here. It appears to be the opposite, in fact. Lol, indeed.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Vietnam is hardly a threat to China - a fundamental reality you fail to acknowledge. That doesn't excuse Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan or any other claimant for their actions - it's a simple recognition of reality. Those countries individually pose no threat to China. China has violated international law and settlements it originally agreed to - i.e., broken their word as a nation and acted in an aggressive manner to militarily assert rights it doesn't have under the 1982 conventions as well as other agreements.

It's very hypocritical of you to accuse China of threatening, aggressive behavior for building military infrastructure on the islands, while being dismissive of Vietnam doing the same. And nobody seems willing to address the fact that Taiwan too has laid claim to ALL of the Spratly islands, which means, not only is Taiwan stepping on China's claims, but they're stepping on the claims of Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam as well!!!
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

No. It's indicative of China's lack of respect for agreements which they sign and their intent to aggressively and militarily claim what they couldn't by convention. It doesn't speak well in support of your argument that China is the abused nation here. It appears to be the opposite, in fact. Lol, indeed.

An argument from ignorance considering that you don't even know the extent of China's claims upon the archipelago, nor the extent of the others claims for that matter.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Vietnam and China are long-standing enemies. The point is not that Vietnam threatens China but that it threatens what China perceives as its vital interests in the South China Sea, while inversely China clearly threatens what Vietnam sees as its vital interests there.

All true. Much the same can be said for many of the other claimants in the area - they've all had disputes with China, and China with them over the course of many years. Various countries over the years have established or attempted to establish a military presence of such reefs and islands in the region during conflicts.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

It's very hypocritical of you to accuse China of threatening, aggressive behavior for building military infrastructure on the islands, while being dismissive of Vietnam doing the same. And nobody seems willing to address the fact that Taiwan too has laid claim to ALL of the Spratly islands, which means, not only is Taiwan stepping on China's claims, but they're stepping on the claims of Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam as well!!!

And maybe you can tell me what the result of a military conflict between Vietnam and China would likely be. I don't dismiss the actions of any of the nations in the region, but I pay more attention to the elephant in that room. This is pure deflection on your part. China has clearly demonstrated contempt for the very agreements it's a party to as recently as 2012.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

An argument from ignorance considering that you don't even know the extent of China's claims upon the archipelago, nor the extent of the others claims for that matter.

What international body has determined that China's claims, however wonderful they might be, are valid? Besides you and China, which don't meet that requirement.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

All true. Much the same can be said for many of the other claimants in the area - they've all had disputes with China, and China with them over the course of many years. Various countries over the years have established or attempted to establish a military presence of such reefs and islands in the region during conflicts.

All very true and several of the claimants have created certain "facts on the ground". What sets China apart is the facts that it alone claims the whole of the South China Sea (I use this name for convenience sake - the name itself is a point of contention) AND has the capacity to actually put military muscle behind this claim. The military power of the Philippines is negligeable and While Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and other regional states do have serious military force, none of them can balance China in a real conflict, which is why they are all desperate to keep the US engaged in the region.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

And maybe you can tell me what the result of a military conflict between Vietnam and China would likely be. I don't dismiss the actions of any of the nations in the region, but I pay more attention to the elephant in that room. This is pure deflection on your part. China has clearly demonstrated contempt for the very agreements it's a party to as recently as 2012.

I don't want to contemplate a military clash between the two, and hopefully, there's enough objectivity to avoid it.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

What international body has determined that China's claims, however wonderful they might be, are valid? Besides you and China, which don't meet that requirement.

What "international body" has ever determined that the US annexation (read: stolen by conquest) of the Hawaiian islands are valid? That finger pointed has three pointing back at itself!!
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

All very true and several of the claimants have created certain "facts on the ground". What sets China apart is the facts that it alone claims the whole of the South China Sea (I use this name for convenience sake - the name itself is a point of contention) AND has the capacity to actually put military muscle behind this claim. The military power of the Philippines is negligeable and While Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and other regional states do have serious military force, none of them can balance China in a real conflict, which is why they are all desperate to keep the US engaged in the region.

China may well have the most meritorious claim to the Spratlys. There's little doubt the other players wish to keep us engaged. Our interest, however, is limited to acceptance of international law and maintaining free passage through the area. This is something we have historically done since our founding and we will continue to do it. It's not, as has been characterized here by some, China bashing. All of the overlapping claimed EEZ zones in the area are a problem, but China is the one nation making such a claim that can legitimately threaten that free passage.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

What "international body" has ever determined that the US annexation (read: stolen by conquest) of the Hawaiian islands are valid? That finger pointed has three pointing back at itself!!

The US claim to Hawaii is not in question here.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Ok, you've already condemn China for building on the islands as provocative and aggressive. I guess this here was a veiled attempt at acknowledging that Vietnam is also being threatening and aggressive!!!!

Building on islands they own and increasing the size of islands they own is one thing.
But this ain't that one thing.
They want an island(s) to develop, likely for an eventual military installation, in what should be international waters but won't be once they claim it.
You're okay with that?
Why?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

On the bolded, so you acknowledge the US's contradiction. And China doesn't believe they have violated it.

Correct and China is obligated by the Treaty. What is the problem with that.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Ok, you've already condemn China for building on the islands as provocative and aggressive. I guess this here was a veiled attempt at acknowledging that Vietnam is also being threatening and aggressive!!!!

Upping the game


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/w...defense-zone-in-south-china-sea.html?ref=asia

Adm. Sun Jianguo, deputy chief of staff of the People’s Liberation Army, speaking at a regional security forum in Singapore, said that China had not definitely said it would create a so-called air defense identification zone, but that any decision would be based on an aerial threat assessment and the maritime security situation. He also said other nations should not overemphasize the issue.

The creation of an air defense zone would be viewed by the United States and Southeast Asian nations as a huge provocation. In recent years, foreign officials have speculated whether one of Beijing’s next moves in the South China Sea would be to set up such a zone, which would further solidify China’s military presence in the waters.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

No. It's indicative of China's lack of respect for agreements which they sign and their intent to aggressively and militarily claim what they couldn't by convention. It doesn't speak well in support of your argument that China is the abused nation here. It appears to be the opposite, in fact. Lol, indeed.

Want to mention vietnams lack of respect for violating the same agreements by building military infrastructure on the islands. Ignoring that doesn't bode well for your argument.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

China may well have the most meritorious claim to the Spratlys. There's little doubt the other players wish to keep us engaged. Our interest, however, is limited to acceptance of international law and maintaining free passage through the area. This is something we have historically done since our founding and we will continue to do it. It's not, as has been characterized here by some, China bashing. All of the overlapping claimed EEZ zones in the area are a problem, but China is the one nation making such a claim that can legitimately threaten that free passage.

The problem is, that is a strawman argument, not unlike such arguments we heard before concerning what ifs. The US is building a massive base at Guam, which you will undoubtedly dismiss the significance of, but it's not lost on China. Nor is it lost on China that the US has been sucking up to its long time enemy Vietnam, in an attempt to regain use of their deep water port. Nor did they miss the both literal and symbolic stationing of US troops in northern Australia, accompanied with a direct provocative speech promising our regional ally's containment of China. Obviously the US is spoiling for a fight with China.
 
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