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Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
A standard to which you hold only the US. Every country on Earth is the product of conquest.
Click to expand...

Arguing the legitimacy of conquest and opposing it at the same time, seems BR was speaking of you. Which demonstrates the insanity of your claims against China's ownership of the Spratly's. They have fought for those islands at least twice, and won recognition both times, in writing, and in a land boundary convention treaty. They have international recognitions of the islands as I posted in #293, what other nations have anything close? For some reason, you guys are but hurt over China. And I'd love to see a Pew, Zogby or Gallup poll asking Americans if they believe that the United States of America, including all its holdings were aquired by the same means that they/our government go about the world condemning (as in the case with Russia and the Ukraine presently) other nations from doing the exact same things. In fact walk down the street and start asking people how it is that Hawaii belongs to the US. :lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
How does that address the five pieces of evidence bolstering China's claims in the quote, speak to them please!
Click to expand...

Can you post those again please.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

DA60 said:
What?!?

Over $1.3 trillion is a heck of a myth (China and Hong Kong U.S. debt held).

Japan now holds more U.S. debt than China - Apr. 15, 2015


If China suddenly dumped all of it's debt, interest rates would shoot up...guaranteed. You cannot just dump a trillion dollars of bonds on the market and have your interest rates unaffacted. And America is TOTALLY dependant on VERY low interest rates right now. How is that good for either U.S. debt or consumers?

Plus, the value of the dollar would plunge - making imports (including oil) much more expensive. And the poor/those on fixed incomes would get hit the hardest on this as they largely depend on those cheap imports.

Additionally, confidence in the dollar would fall further...undermining it's world currency status.


And how on Earth would it hurt China? They would sell the bonds - probably for dollars - and then convert that into hard currency (they already buy more gold then anyone else) and other raw materials they need for their economy. ANd they could buy foreign real estate and just about anything else they want.
Plus, the value of the yuan would rise, which would make buying those raw materials less expensive.
Sure, that would hurt exports to some extent. But since the dollar would be weaker, almost all other currencies would be stronger, so the affect would not be as great. Besides, China is trying to force their economy inwards and less outwards...this would facilitate that.
Also, China does not depend on America as much as most think for trading. They only send 1/6 of their exports to America. Sure, it would hurt their economy if that were cut off. But it's no back breaker.

• China: main export partners 2014 | Statistic


Overall, China dumping it's U.S. debt could hurt China a bit. And it would probably not be catastrophic for America.

But the idea that China suddenly dumping all of it's U.S. debt not hurting America significantly is - no offense - totally erroneous.

You disagree - fine.


Good day.
Click to expand...

". . . China’s hard currency hoard adds little punch to its geopolitical power because its stockpile results from a growth strategy that relies on an undervalued currency to keep exports competitive. If China threatens to reduce its investment in U.S. debt, it will either have to find alternative investments (not an easy task these days) or export less to the United States (not a good idea for Chinese manufacturers). Moreover, with so much invested in Western debt, China would suffer disastrous capital losses if it spooked financial markets. . . ."

Five myths about China's power - The Washington Post

Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis...myths...chinas.../gIQA...


The Washington Post


Jan 20, 2012 - The much-feared scenario of China dumping U.S. sovereign debt on world markets to bend Washington to its will has not materialized — and ...
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

DA60 said:
What?!?

Over $1.3 trillion is a heck of a myth (China and Hong Kong U.S. debt held).

Japan now holds more U.S. debt than China - Apr. 15, 2015


If China suddenly dumped all of it's debt, interest rates would shoot up...guaranteed. You cannot just dump a trillion dollars of bonds on the market and have your interest rates unaffacted. And America is TOTALLY dependant on VERY low interest rates right now. How is that good for either U.S. debt or consumers?

Plus, the value of the dollar would plunge - making imports (including oil) much more expensive. And the poor/those on fixed incomes would get hit the hardest on this as they largely depend on those cheap imports.

Additionally, confidence in the dollar would fall further...undermining it's world currency status.


And how on Earth would it hurt China? They would sell the bonds - probably for dollars - and then convert that into hard currency (they already buy more gold then anyone else) and other raw materials they need for their economy. ANd they could buy foreign real estate and just about anything else they want.
Plus, the value of the yuan would rise, which would make buying those raw materials less expensive.
Sure, that would hurt exports to some extent. But since the dollar would be weaker, almost all other currencies would be stronger, so the affect would not be as great. Besides, China is trying to force their economy inwards and less outwards...this would facilitate that.
Also, China does not depend on America as much as most think for trading. They only send 1/6 of their exports to America. Sure, it would hurt their economy if that were cut off. But it's no back breaker.

• China: main export partners 2014 | Statistic


Overall, China dumping it's U.S. debt could hurt China a bit. And it would probably not be catastrophic for America.

But the idea that China suddenly dumping all of it's U.S. debt not hurting America significantly is - no offense - totally erroneous.

You disagree - fine.


Good day.
Click to expand...

Yep, and America would risk all that to dispute the legitimacy of China's claims to a few hundred acres of tiny sand only "islands". When China has the tightest claims to the islands of all the claimants. And, the US hasn't any claims to the islands, yet these guys argue that the US is legitimate in sticking its nose in based upon a hypothetical that next, China's going to shut down the shipping lanes that straddle this archipelago, despite the fact that China's made no such threats. :roll:
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

JANFU said:
Can you post those again please.
Click to expand...

You're joking right? Ma'is Salama
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
Arguing the legitimacy of conquest and opposing it at the same time, seems BR was speaking of you. Which demonstrates the insanity of your claims against China's ownership of the Spratly's. They have fought for those islands at least twice, and won recognition both times, in writing, and in a land boundary convention treaty. They have international recognitions of the islands as I posted in #293, what other nations have anything close? For some reason, you guys are but hurt over China. And I'd love to see a Pew, Zogby or Gallup poll asking Americans if they believe that the United States of America, including all its holdings were aquired by the same means that they/our government go about the world condemning (as in the case with Russia and the Ukraine presently) other nations from doing the exact same things. In fact walk down the street and start asking people how it is that Hawaii belongs to the US. :lamo :lamo :lamo
Click to expand...

I don't care at all about the Spratlys and you won't find a post of mine arguing that point, so your first obligation is to retract your claim. China's neighbors, however, care very much, and China's actions are driving them into our arms (as I have posted). The US issue is freedom of navigation and flight, a core vital national interest.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
How does that address the five pieces of evidence bolstering China's claims in the quote, speak to them please!
Click to expand...

Is it legal, please speak to that.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
Yep, and America would risk all that to dispute the legitimacy of China's claims to a few hundred acres of tiny sand only "islands". When China has the tightest claims to the islands of all the claimants. And, the US hasn't any claims to the islands, yet these guys argue that the US is legitimate in sticking its nose in based upon a hypothetical that next, China's going to shut down the shipping lanes that straddle this archipelago, despite the fact that China's made no such threats. :roll:
Click to expand...

China threatened the US aircraft flying in international air space, as already posted.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
You're joking right? Ma'is Salama
Click to expand...

I found them
Now care to answer the question I posted.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

U.S. Says China Has Deployed Artillery on Disputed Islands

". . . Carter on Wednesday made it clear that the U.S. will "fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows." But so far he has said little about what the U.S. is willing to do to get China to stop the island construction.

U.S. and other regional officials have expressed concerns about the island building, including worries that it may be a prelude to navigation restrictions or the enforcement of a possible air defense identification zone over the South China Sea. China declared such a zone over disputed Japanese-held islands in the East China Sea in 2013. . . ."


 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
I don't care at all about the Spratlys and you won't find a post of mine arguing that point, so your first obligation is to retract your claim. China's neighbors, however, care very much, and China's actions are driving them into our arms (as I have posted). The US issue is freedom of navigation and flight, a core vital national interest.
Click to expand...

Ok, you don't care about the Spratly's, and my focus throughout this thread has been exclusively the Spratly's (as related Paracel's) so you and I aren't even debating the same subject, lol. But sense you mentioned China's neighbors with regards to the Spratly's, China's claims are very solid, while the rest of the claimants have mostly dubious claims, and as such, I don't care about them.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
Ok, you don't care about the Spratly's, and my focus throughout this thread has been exclusively the Spratly's (as related Paracel's) so you and I aren't even debating the same subject, lol. But sense you mentioned China's neighbors with regards to the Spratly's, China's claims are very solid, while the rest of the claimants have mostly dubious claims, and as such, I don't care about them.
Click to expand...

Now, the areas claimed by China, are they in your opinion well founded under the convention and other law?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
Ok, you don't care about the Spratly's, and my focus throughout this thread has been exclusively the Spratly's (as related Paracel's) so you and I aren't even debating the same subject, lol. But sense you mentioned China's neighbors with regards to the Spratly's, China's claims are very solid, while the rest of the claimants have mostly dubious claims, and as such, I don't care about them.
Click to expand...

OK, but China is driving them into our arms, creating the firm opposing alliance they don't want.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
China threatened the US aircraft flying in international air space, as already posted.
Click to expand...

They didn't threaten that plane, they asked them eight times (in English for no lost in translation) to leave the area which they eventually did. No threats were made, and the plane wasn't engaged militarily. China, setting on their island making improvements on them, very much minding their own business while Kerry and Carter are making grandiose declarations and for the obvious reason of provocation the Pentagon invites CNN to tag along for the show (wink wink, nod nod) flies right up to the edge (13 Miles I think I read) probably giving China the middle finger salute.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
They didn't threaten that plane, they asked them eight times (in English for no lost in translation) to leave the area which they eventually did. No threats were made, and the plane wasn't engaged militarily. China, setting on their island making improvements on them, very much minding their own business while Kerry and Carter are making grandiose declarations and for the obvious reason of provocation the Pentagon invites CNN to tag along for the show (wink wink, nod nod) flies right up to the edge (13 Miles I think I read) probably giving China the middle finger salute.
Click to expand...

1. China had no right to ask the US aircraft to leave.
2. All international aviation transmissions/exchanges are conducted in English by international agreement.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
OK, but China is driving them into our arms, creating the firm opposing alliance they don't want.
Click to expand...

Well, that may be. But realistically, Taiwan, the Philippines and Malaysia have been pretty much "in our arms" all along anyway. We recognize Taiwanese independence, and Hillary Clinton, acting about 12 years old, stood in Manila and called the SCS the West Philippines Sea, and we've long since had our defence treaties with them. IOW, it's no big deal, it's not as though China had these countries in their pocket to begin with.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
1. China had no right to ask the US aircraft to leave.
2. All international aviation transmissions/exchanges are conducted in English by international agreement.
Click to expand...

They had every right to ask them to leave, and the plane had every right to remain.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
They had every right to ask them to leave, and the plane had every right to remain.
Click to expand...

No. There is no right to ask an aircraft to leave international air space. Moreover, the Chinese clearly threatened.

"This is the Chinese navy ... This is the Chinese navy ... Please go away ... to avoid misunderstanding," a voice in English crackled through the radio of the aircraft in which CNN was present. . . . "

Exclusive: China warns U.S. spy plane - CNNPolitics.com


  1. www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/south-china-sea-navy-flight/
  2. CNN
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

JANFU said:
Now, the areas claimed by China, are they in your opinion well founded under the convention and other law?
Click to expand...

Come on dude. How many times must I link up the 1887 Sino-French land boundary treaty recognizing China as the rightful owner of the Spratly's? And, I just gave you a list of six examples of international recognition of China's legal ownership of the Spratly's. What is wrong with you, seriously!!!???
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
Well, that may be. But realistically, Taiwan, the Philippines and Malaysia have been pretty much "in our arms" all along anyway. We recognize Taiwanese independence, and Hillary Clinton, acting about 12 years old, stood in Manila and called the SCS the West Philippines Sea, and we've long since had our defence treaties with them. IOW, it's no big deal, it's not as though China had these countries in their pocket to begin with.
Click to expand...

We do not recognize Taiwan independence. And West Philippines Sea is a perfectly valid name. Malaysia has absolutely not been "in our arms."
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
No. There is no right to ask an aircraft to leave international air space. Moreover, the Chinese clearly threatened.

"This is the Chinese navy ... This is the Chinese navy ... Please go away ... to avoid misunderstanding," a voice in English crackled through the radio of the aircraft in which CNN was present. . . . "

Exclusive: China warns U.S. spy plane - CNNPolitics.com


  1. www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/south-china-sea-navy-flight/
  2. CNN
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're all familiar with that. I don't see a threat.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Montecresto said:
Come on dude. How many times must I link up the 1887 Sino-French land boundary treaty recognizing China as the rightful owner of the Spratly's? And, I just gave you a list of six examples of international recognition of China's legal ownership of the Spratly's. What is wrong with you, seriously!!!???
Click to expand...

Well my friend I used Google Earth on those islands that you mentioned.
The questions I have is the unilateral line from China within the laws? as they are right on top of other countries territorial waters.
They originally agreed to group discussion, then altered their position to one on one.
Then they started rapid building. On some islands they own.
FP by the new Leader has diametrically changed from cooperation by past leaders to unilateral in this case.
That is what is getting peoples attention.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Jack Hays said:
We do not recognize Taiwan independence. And West Philippines Sea is a perfectly valid name. Malaysia has absolutely not been "in our arms."
Click to expand...

Why do you always do this Jack? Of course "officially" at State we don't, but in practice and indeed, we very much support Taiwanese independence, and were prepared to go to their defence should the PRC threaten it. And the "West Philippines Sea" is certainly NOT appropriate, and was stated by Hillary Clinton while she was still smarting from China's rebuke on Syria. :roll:
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

JANFU said:
Well my friend I used Google Earth on those islands that you mentioned.
The questions I have is the unilateral line from China within the laws? as they are right on top of other countries territorial waters.
They originally agreed to group discussion, then altered their position to one on one.
Then they started rapid building. On some islands they own.
FP by the new Leader has diametrically changed from cooperation by past leaders to unilateral in this case.
That is what is getting peoples attention.
Click to expand...

I don't know what further to say to you bud. I've pointed you to China's historic title to the Spratly archipelago, I've shown you a list of of international recognition to China's title to the islands, if I was making the decisions in China, it would look very much as it does now.
 
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