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Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I'd wager they would claim it was the other way round. I hope the Chinese are not dumb enough to get sucked into an arms race because of these US provocations. If they continued I'd simply call in my financial tab with the US if I were them .This sort of leverage wasn't available to the USSR back in the day so if the Chinese play the financial cards right it will be very interesting to see how things will play out economically. The Chinese could see their global hegemon arrive rather sooner than they thought

How is the US provoking China?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

We'll then that's the problem, I've been talking about the Spratly's (and a bit on the Paracel's) exclusively, the whole time.
Then most of the other claims by China are illegal?
Including building and turning these man made islands into defensive/offensive operations militarily?
Of course the Spratly Islands if found under the UN Convention to be China's would have waters that are exclusively China's.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Then most of the other claims by China are illegal?
Including building and turning these man made islands into defensive/offensive operations militarily?
Of course the Spratly Islands if found under the UN Convention to be China's would have waters that are exclusively China's.

I don't know about the broader claims of all the waters and everything else you're talking about. I've been talking about the Spratlys and Paracels, which by my research, China has thee soundest claims to, and as such, they may do as they wish with them, and yes they should include the traditional twelve miles around them. Do you have any criticisms for Taiwan which claims the entire archipelago as well, and as such is stepping on the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei's claims???
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

How is the US provoking China?

Look JANFU, you can take the position all day long that China's the big bad aggressor in this and the US, Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan and Brunei are victims being bullied, have at it. But please do not be coy about the US's provocation to China last Friday, that's really ridiculous. Of course the US flew right over the Chinese there as a deliberate provocation.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Look JANFU, you can take the position all day long that China's the big bad aggressor in this and the US, Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan and Brunei are victims being bullied, have at it. But please do not be coy about the US's provocation to China last Friday, that's really ridiculous. Of course the US flew right over the Chinese there as a deliberate provocation.

That is international air space.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Look JANFU, you can take the position all day long that China's the big bad aggressor in this and the US, Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan and Brunei are victims being bullied, have at it. But please do not be coy about the US's provocation to China last Friday, that's really ridiculous. Of course the US flew right over the Chinese there as a deliberate provocation.

". . . From the cockpit, Lt. Cmdr Matt Newman told CNN, "There's obviously a lot of surface traffic down there: Chinese warships, Chinese coast guard ships. They have air search radars, so there's a pretty good bet they're tracking us."

The proof was loud and clear. The Chinese navy ordered the P8 out of the airspace eight times on this mission alone.
Each time, the American pilots told them calmly and uniformly that the P8 was flying through international airspace.
That answer sometimes frustrated the Chinese radio operator on the other end.
Once he responds with exasperation: "This is the Chinese navy ... You go!". . . "





  1. Exclusive: China warns U.S. spy plane - CNNPolitics.com

    www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/south-china-sea-navy-flight/
  2. CNN


    May 20, 2015 - Above the South China Sea (CNN) The Chinese navy issued warnings ... The series of man-made islands and the massive Chinese military build-up on ... of China's building activity and audio of Chinese challenges of a U.S. aircraft. ... Soon after the Chinese communication was heard, its source appeared ...
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Try, having a little objectivity.

Provoking Beijing in the South China Sea Will Only Backfire on Washington
When China declares an Air Defense Identification Zone in the South China Sea, the United States will have only itself to blame.

Provoking Beijing in the South China Sea Will Only Backfire on Washington | Foreign Policy

China already declared an air defense zone. We ignored it.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

What about Chinese aggression?

What about China is aggressive??
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

". . . From the cockpit, Lt. Cmdr Matt Newman told CNN, "There's obviously a lot of surface traffic down there: Chinese warships, Chinese coast guard ships. They have air search radars, so there's a pretty good bet they're tracking us."

The proof was loud and clear. The Chinese navy ordered the P8 out of the airspace eight times on this mission alone.
Each time, the American pilots told them calmly and uniformly that the P8 was flying through international airspace.
That answer sometimes frustrated the Chinese radio operator on the other end.
Once he responds with exasperation: "This is the Chinese navy ... You go!". . . "




  1. Exclusive: China warns U.S. spy plane - CNNPolitics.com

    www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/south-china-sea-navy-flight/
  2. CNN


    May 20, 2015 - Above the South China Sea (CNN) The Chinese navy issued warnings ... The series of man-made islands and the massive Chinese military build-up on ... of China's building activity and audio of Chinese challenges of a U.S. aircraft. ... Soon after the Chinese communication was heard, its source appeared ...

What 'massive' Chinese build up could there possibly be on islands with an area of a few hundred hectares ? By far the largest island in the group is less than a mile long and a quarter mile wide so they are not going to be docking supercarriers there any time soon nor launching any invasions of its neighbours. What has been massive though is the US overreaction given the recent movement of the USS Ronald Reagan battle group into the far east
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

How is the US provoking China?

So you think the US stated strategic pivot to the far east is somehow not meant to provoke China ?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

That is international air space.

Come on Jack I cannot believe you are that naieve. They knew exactly what they were doing and why they were there and I know you do too
 
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Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

China already declared an air defense zone. We ignored it.

Why ? What is it of such great strategic importance for the US on this tiny archipeligo, and don't blather on about that freedom of the seas/piracy BS because that doesn't wash. China has not threatened to close any sea lanes and does have the strongest historic claim here.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I'm sorry, but... why the war ships and war planes of uncle Sam are in the South China Sea in the far western side of the Pacific Ocean? Should they be there? I didn't get it.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

So you think the US stated strategic pivot to the far east is somehow not meant to provoke China ?

Do you think that China claiming what they have claimed in the China Sea is not meant to provoke/intimidate other countries including the US.
A strategic pivot is exactly what China is doing with the SC Seas claim and building in areas/reefs outside of their territorial waters.
.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Do you think that China claiming what they have claimed in the China Sea is not meant to provoke/intimidate other countries including the US.
A strategic pivot is exactly what China is doing with the SC Seas claim and building in areas/reefs outside of their territorial waters.
.

They have the strongest historic claim to these islands so I have no problem with it. Its why the US is choosing to have such a problem with it that I take issue with. These islands are tiny ,of little military utility whatsoever and are 8000 miles from the US. They are just being used as an excuse to try and provoke the Chinese and somehow justify the US 'pivot' nothing more
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Do you think that China claiming what they have claimed in the China Sea is not meant to provoke/intimidate other countries including the US.
A strategic pivot is exactly what China is doing with the SC Seas claim and building in areas/reefs outside of their territorial waters.
.

No. This isn't anything new. China has been fighting for and claiming and possessing and manning and improving the Spratly's and Paracel's for a very very long time.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Do you think that China claiming what they have claimed in the China Sea is not meant to provoke/intimidate other countries including the US.
A strategic pivot is exactly what China is doing with the SC Seas claim and building in areas/reefs outside of their territorial waters.
.

How are the Spratly's outside of China's territorial waters?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

They have the strongest historic claim to these islands so I have no problem with it. Its why the US is choosing to have such a problem with it that I take issue with. These islands are tiny ,of little military utility whatsoever and are 8000 miles from the US. They are just being used as an excuse to try and provoke the Chinese and somehow justify the US 'pivot' nothing more

I was not referring to the Spratly's.
So please answer what I asked.
This is the present claim by China.
View attachment 67184988
Look at the photos then tell me this is not an illegal grab of territorial waters of other countries.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=chin...kjIPoCQ&ved=0CDsQ7Ak&biw=1600&bih=767&dpr=1.2

Then we have India preparing.
Gunboat diplomacy: Indian navy ready to set sail to South China Sea ? RT News
The Indian Navy’s military actions are a bit late, but meant to defend the country’s interests in the region, Sreeram Chaulia, the dean of the Jindal School of International Affairs, told RT.

“It's seen as a belated but necessary move by the Indian military to be able to say that if our interests are now so widespread, then we will also need to show our capabilities to defend our interests come what may. And of course, the situation in the South China Sea has been deteriorating in terms of security and a high level of competition and bickering between some ASEAN countries and China,” said Chaulia
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

No one cares about the islands. The issue is freedom of navigation.




Well it is about that.....but there is more to it JH.:2wave:





China’s Island-Building Spree Is About More Than Just Military Might.....


China’s playing Monopoly in the South China Sea—only, instead of building hotels on Pacific Avenue, it’s constructing helipads and, in some cases, whole new islands. The new reclaimed islands are only the latest Spratly rockpiles and reefs that, since February 2014, China has willed into existence by heaping sand atop of them–to the alarm among China’s neighbors.

ihs-photo1.jpg

Airbus Defence and Space satellite imagery shows the brisk clip at which China has turned Gaven Reefs into a helipad-supporting island.(IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly ©CNES 2015, Distribution DS/IHS: 1570064)

UWC’s Dutton is less concerned about the lack of evidence; he says the US compiled solid documentation prior to the Chinese reclamation. But he brings up another potential spur driving China’s South China Seas buildup. When Taiwan holds its presidential elections in January 2016, experts say the Kuomingtang Party, which traditionally favors closer relations with China, is likely to lose to much less pro-China Democratic Progressive Party.

If you turn the map, there’s a very interesting, almost direct axis line between the islands China’s been reclaiming in Spratlys and Taiwan and the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands,” he says. “If I were a Taiwanese security planner, that would have caught my attention".....snip~

China's Island-Building Spree Is About More Than Just Military Might - Defense One
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

How are the Spratly's outside of China's territorial waters?

Do they legally own each one of the many rock outcroppings?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

How are the Spratly's outside of China's territorial waters?

Arbitration 101: Philippines v. China | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative
A ruling on the jurisdictional issue may be expected anytime within 3 to 6 months after the middle of June 2015. This is on account of the importance of the crucial issue of jurisdiction, the pace at which the Tribunal has proceeded thus far, and assuming that a hearing on oral arguments is not called for, and that Vietnam’s statement does not result in additional proceedings. The latter depends largely on the results of consultations on the matter. This ruling will determine whether the case will terminate at this stage or proceed any further.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Do you think that China claiming what they have claimed in the China Sea is not meant to provoke/intimidate other countries including the US.
A strategic pivot is exactly what China is doing with the SC Seas claim and building in areas/reefs outside of their territorial waters.
.


That's correct JF. Its 6 sites that has most attention, and it is what has all those other Asian nations condemning the moves. As this asserts more of China's Claims. While diminishing theirs.



photo2.jpeg

Comparison of current operational distances of PLA bases with airstrips from<br />Taiwan versus the Spratly Islands (distances in nautical miles).(“China’s First Airstrip in the Spratly Islands Likely at Fiery Cross Reef,” Ethan Meick, using Google Maps; adapted from David Shlapak, “Chinese Air Superiority in the Near Seas,” in Peter Dutton, Andrew S. Erickson, and Ryan Martinson (eds.), China’s Near Seas Combat Capabilities (China Maritime Studies, U.S. Naval War College, February 2014))


One of the military initiatives China’s likely to undertake once it’s done building the islands is to implement an air-identification zone (a.k.a. ADIZ), says Peter Dutton, director of the China Maritime Studies Institute at the U.S. Naval War College. But China’s Spratly ambitions likely go way beyond mere military might, he adds.

“It certainly also means supporting the fishing fleet, oil and natural-gas exploration, the ability to support law enforcement and coast guard, in addition to military activities,” says Dutton. “The islands being built up in the South China Seas really do present a major problem for other claimants in the region in that regard, because China simply outclasses them in every dimension of state power needed to reinforce [its claims].”.....snip~

China's Island-Building Spree Is About More Than Just Military Might - Defense One
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

That's correct JF. Its 6 sites that has most attention, and it is what has all those other Asian nations condemning the moves. As this asserts more of China's Claims. While diminishing theirs.



photo2.jpeg

Comparison of current operational distances of PLA bases with airstrips from<br />Taiwan versus the Spratly Islands (distances in nautical miles).(“China’s First Airstrip in the Spratly Islands Likely at Fiery Cross Reef,” Ethan Meick, using Google Maps; adapted from David Shlapak, “Chinese Air Superiority in the Near Seas,” in Peter Dutton, Andrew S. Erickson, and Ryan Martinson (eds.), China’s Near Seas Combat Capabilities (China Maritime Studies, U.S. Naval War College, February 2014))

One of the military initiatives China’s likely to undertake once it’s done building the islands is to implement an air-identification zone (a.k.a. ADIZ), says Peter Dutton, director of the China Maritime Studies Institute at the U.S. Naval War College. But China’s Spratly ambitions likely go way beyond mere military might, he adds.

“It certainly also means supporting the fishing fleet, oil and natural-gas exploration, the ability to support law enforcement and coast guard, in addition to military activities,” says Dutton. “The islands being built up in the South China Seas really do present a major problem for other claimants in the region in that regard, because China simply outclasses them in every dimension of state power needed to reinforce [its claims].”.....snip~

China's Island-Building Spree Is About More Than Just Military Might - Defense One
Oil, gas, fishing rights, minerals and control of the area. They can easily create a Denial of Area to any country they wish to.
Denial of Area, making it costly in blood and treasure is meant to lock out the US from Asia.
And China play a long game, and that is my opinion.
They want Asia and the countries near them to be more like client states.
TPP will also cost them trade and investment.
India is upping their military spending, why, due to China and security issues.
But China only has so long to do this.
Aging population and as economists say, China will be old, before they are rich.
India on the other hand is or will be a Superpower in the next 20-30 years.
Then we have Malaysia, economy on fire and growing fast.
As to the US pivot to Asia, well that is what most countries are doing as Asia is where growth is.
There will not be a Unipolar world for much longer, with the US at the top of the heap.
More likely Tri Polar. US-China-India-
And Russia, well until they reform their economy and legal titles to property, rid themselves of corruption, they will be China's Putz Boys.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Do they legally own each one of the many rock outcroppings?

We've been over this repeatedly. Yes, having read from an array of differing accounts, taking into consideration all the different biases and subjective interests of not only the six countries which have the overlapping claims, but various advocacy groups, experts in international/foreign affairs, and so on, China emerges as the most legitimate claimant, they simply do. And I remain frustrated by those that continue to point to the infrastructure that China has built on "disputed islands" while the other claimants (save Brunei) have in fact constructed their own infrastructures as well as rotated troops upon the very same "disputed islands" without a single mention, let alone criticism. Additionally you won't comment on the fact that Taiwan has laid claim to the entire Spratly archipelago and the implications that has on Vietnam, Philippines and Malaysia??!!
 
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