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Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Acting to establish a claim by force undercuts the possible validity of the claim. China has drawn a contorted and tortured map in an attempt to establish that claim as well. Note that the map China offers also includes Taiwan. I wonder if Taiwan should approach the UN and claim China as theirs.

Taiwan claims all the islands in the Spratly archipelago, too!! Where's that leave Vietnam, the Philippines, and others??
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

You haven't a clue about the history of the Spratlys, nor any understanding of what overlapping claims mean, as such your a waste of time, take the last word and then go play games with someone else, hear?

Yo Monte save all that BS. You are becoming the Joke of the neighborhood. It was you that said you didn't care about that History. Got that now. Those were your words. Not mine!
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Acting to establish a claim by force undercuts the possible validity of the claim. China has drawn a contorted and tortured map in an attempt to establish that claim as well. Note that the map China offers also includes Taiwan. I wonder if Taiwan should approach the UN and claim China as theirs.

Mornin HB. :2wave: Yeah and South Korea too. Imagine that.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Taiwan claims all the islands in the Spratly archipelago, too!! Where's that leave Vietnam, the Philippines, and others??

The more the merrier, I suppose. A couple of typhoons or a seismic event might make the Chinese reconsider the utility of their effort. Hopefully the whole flap will be settled in an amicable manner, but given the number of claims, there's bound to be some long faces somewhere. Meanwhile, the poor fishermen from the surrounding areas will be left in the lurch. China appears to be installing some radars, and since they don't appear to be constructing a tourist destination, one can reasonably expect that the complimentary "things that go boom" elements will follow.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Mornin HB. :2wave: Yeah and South Korea too. Imagine that.

I expect that every nation in the area will want to at this point as a counterweight to China. If you had even one individual who was documented to have shipwrecked on one of those reefs, you'll want to make a claim.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

The more the merrier, I suppose. A couple of typhoons or a seismic event might make the Chinese reconsider the utility of their effort. Hopefully the whole flap will be settled in an amicable manner, but given the number of claims, there's bound to be some long faces somewhere. Meanwhile, the poor fishermen from the surrounding areas will be left in the lurch. China appears to be installing some radars, and since they don't appear to be constructing a tourist destination, one can reasonably expect that the complimentary "things that go boom" elements will follow.

That's when they aren't ramming fishing boats, and using Blast fishing to acquire their catch.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

That's when they aren't ramming fishing boats, and using Blast fishing to acquire their catch.

It's that exclusion zone that bothers me most. Fishing is a way of life there and a staple of the people in the region. I don't care all that much if they want to build a military playground on those reefs. If shooting actually started, that wouldn't survive the first shots fired. It would be the first target. It's just a place from which to launch all the bullying in an attempt to assert a claim they might actually find accepted if they were to pursue it through normal channels. China's problem is that they wouldn't get that exclusion zone if they went about it in the prescribed fashion. They don't have time for that. There's money to be made and power to be accumulated.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

For my final attempt with you JANFU. Though there's more than this, China holds a treaty from 1887 known as the boundary convention, signed between China and France at the conclusion of the Sino-French war, in which China already fought for the un inhabited Spratly islands and won! In which treaty the Chinese are documented as the rightful owners! Furthermore, in 1939, the Japanese wrested possession of the islands from the Chinese, but after the Japanese surrender, during restoration, the Spratlys were returned to the Chinese in 1947.

Never stated they did not have some claim, just not all of what they are claiming.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

If you want America to stand up to China, then your advocating Americans spill their blood. I'm not loosing any argument. The Chinese, nor any of the other claimants give a **** what you and I have to say about this!

There will be more than the US involved if it came to that.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Facts be damned. They don't care 'bout no stinking piece of paper.

That appears to be the case. Then they may be pushing to see how far and what then can gain from it.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

There will be more than the US involved if it came to that.

Yes there would be, but as an American, of course my concerns are with American blood and treasure. I'm sure there would be Filipino citizens for example that would be taking up their own concerns with their own government over their feelings about spending blood and treasure in defense of the insignificant Spratly islands.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

That appears to be the case. Then they may be pushing to see how far and what then can gain from it.

They know we aren't going to war over it, so they'll take what they can grab. The countries in the region objecting pose no threat to China. In fact they're trading partners with China. The Chinese have taken a lesson from Putin and are getting what they can while our global influence is at a low ebb.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

They know we aren't going to war over it, so they'll take what they can grab. The countries in the region objecting pose no threat to China. In fact they're trading partners with China. The Chinese have taken a lesson from Putin and are getting what they can while our global influence is at a low ebb.

Why should the US be getting involved with any of this ? Has its regional allies ever asked it to intercede here on their behalf ?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

The more the merrier, I suppose. A couple of typhoons or a seismic event might make the Chinese reconsider the utility of their effort. Hopefully the whole flap will be settled in an amicable manner, but given the number of claims, there's bound to be some long faces somewhere. Meanwhile, the poor fishermen from the surrounding areas will be left in the lurch. China appears to be installing some radars, and since they don't appear to be constructing a tourist destination, one can reasonably expect that the complimentary "things that go boom" elements will follow.

I'll agree with you on your wishes for an amicable settlement. The rest of your assertions are just that at this point.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

They know we aren't going to war over it, so they'll take what they can grab. The countries in the region objecting pose no threat to China. In fact they're trading partners with China. The Chinese have taken a lesson from Putin and are getting what they can while our global influence is at a low ebb.

I don't think anybody can definitively state that "they know we aren't going to war over it"
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Acting to establish a claim by force undercuts the possible validity of the claim. China has drawn a contorted and tortured map in an attempt to establish that claim as well. Note that the map China offers also includes Taiwan. I wonder if Taiwan should approach the UN and claim China as theirs.

We are seeing why it is dangerous--even to the point of inviting war on a large scale--to have a weak sister like Barack Obama as president. It is six years of weakness under his presidency that has encouraged this aggressiveness by the leadership of China, just as it has encouraged other rivals and adversaries of this country to be aggressive. It takes courage, determination, and the ability to lead to further the interests of the United States in the world, however much that fact may offend the exquisite sensitivities of Barack Obama and his pajama-boy acolytes.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I don't think anybody can definitively state that "they know we aren't going to war over it"

Probably not, but if I were China just now, I'd take that gamble.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Yes there would be, but as an American, of course my concerns are with American blood and treasure. I'm sure there would be Filipino citizens for example that would be taking up their own concerns with their own government over their feelings about spending blood and treasure in defense of the insignificant Spratly islands.

It is not the Spratly’s. You refuse to look at the area claimed. You refuse to accept that China signed on to an agreement to address these issues.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Probably not, but if I were China just now, I'd take that gamble.

Well there you have it, if I were China right now, I would fully expect a US military response to this, sense those with the power to order the Pentagon to make plans, the CIC and his cabinet are failing to acknowledge that China has the strongest claims to the Spratlys. Does anybody think that at a time when the US is seeking containment of China's growth and influence, that they'd be siding with China on this, when this situation presents itself as a good early opportunity for the US to engage China militarily now, before they have too much more time to balance the military power between the two states??
 
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Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

We are seeing why it is dangerous--even to the point of inviting war on a large scale--to have a weak sister like Barack Obama as president. It is six years of weakness under his presidency that has encouraged this aggressiveness by the leadership of China, just as it has encouraged other rivals and adversaries of this country to be aggressive. It takes courage, determination, and the ability to lead to further the interests of the United States in the world, however much that fact may offend the exquisite sensitivities of Barack Obama and his pajama-boy acolytes.

I think China knows just how far they can go without serious repercussion. They won't start something they would lose, but they'll go up to the line. Potentially, China has a whole lot more to lose here than we do if they push too far. It is the South China Sea, after all. Of course, sitting here in the comfort of my home, I can say such things. It's a different story entirely if your ass happens to be the one on that line. If China says they'll fight, I believe them. Exactly who they intend to fight is unknown. As it stands at present, it isn't us.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Well there you have it, if I were China right now, I would fully expect a US military response to this, sense those with the power to order the Pentagon to make plans, the CIC and his cabinet are failing to acknowledge that China has the strongest claims to the Spratlys. Does anybody think that at a time when the US is seeking containment of China's growth and influence, that they'd be siding with China on this, when this situation presents itself as a good early opportunity for the US to engage China militarily now, before they have too much more time to balance the military power between the two states??

I don't think Obama is prepared to engage militarily with China over Taiwan, so I don't thing we'll be in a fight with them over the Spratlys. We could contain their entrepreneurial exuberance in the South China Sea, though. They aren't building a military base just to defend a military base.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I don't think Obama is prepared to engage militarily with China over Taiwan, so I don't thing we'll be in a fight with them over the Spratlys. We could contain their entrepreneurial exuberance in the South China Sea, though. They aren't building a military base just to defend a military base.

And once again I ask what is the US stake in this and have any of its regional allies asked it to intercede politically or militarily on their behalf here ?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

And once again I ask what is the US stake in this and have any of its regional allies asked it to intercede politically or militarily on their behalf here ?

No, none have asked to my knowledge. If you haven't received an answer in nearly 200 posts that satisfies you, one doesn't likely exist that will. I hope our interests go beyond just the South China Sea, but I don't make policy - I just offer very pedestrian comment on it now and then.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

No, none have asked to my knowledge. If you haven't received an answer in nearly 200 posts that satisfies you, one doesn't likely exist that will. I hope our interests go beyond just the South China Sea, but I don't make policy - I just offer very pedestrian comment on it now and then.

So it could be claimed that the US is sticking its nose into something that is really none of its business and where it has never been asked to . I'm guessing that the stimulation of a new arms race this time with the Chinese might be the alterior motive here. Given the lack of any serious existential military threat since the end of the Cold War that huge US defence budget has to be justified somehow
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

So it could be claimed that the US is sticking its nose into something that is really none of its business and where it has never been asked to . I'm guessing that the stimulation of a new arms race this time with the Chinese might be the alterior motive here. Given the lack of any serious existential military threat since the end of the Cold War that huge US defence budget has to be justified somehow

You could say that. However, the US does have treaty obligations and that other thing I alluded to. You could consider those too if you actually take obligations such as those seriously. Consider for a moment what the disregard of treaty obligations on the part of the US might mean for England. You won't get much objection from us if you decide to go it alone. There are other issues as well, but I'm loathe to have to point them out.
 
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