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Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

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“What apparently happened is the Iraqi forces just showed no will to fight,” he said. “They were not outnumbered. In fact, they vastly outnumbered the opposing force. That says to me, and I think to most of us, that we have an issue with the will of the Iraqis to fight ISIL and defend themselves."

Carter saying Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' sparks more criticism, concern about Obama plan | Fox News

Here we go again with our desperate attempts to train those who will shoot at our backs once they will be left alone.

They say you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Bush Jr. invaded the wrong country (as if he could invade the right one). Iraqis understand they will die from ISIS attacks, but many of them got addicted to ISIS propaganda. So both facts are against US there - the fact Iraqis are muslims makes them sympathize isis and they never stopped treating us as invaders so I'm not surprised they don't want to fight.

It seems Pentagon's idea was to create non-US troops to fight ISIS and to oppose terrorists without getting involved to a direct confrontation.

So, does it mean we spend money on training future terrorists?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Carter saying Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' sparks more criticism, concern about Obama plan | Fox News

Here we go again with our desperate attempts to train those who will shoot at our backs once they will be left alone.

They say you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Bush Jr. invaded the wrong country (as if he could invade the right one). Iraqis understand they will die from ISIS attacks, but many of them got addicted to ISIS propaganda. So both facts are against US there - the fact Iraqis are muslims makes them sympathize isis and they never stopped treating us as invaders so I'm not surprised they don't want to fight.

It seems Pentagon's idea was to create non-US troops to fight ISIS and to oppose terrorists without getting involved to a direct confrontation.

So, does it mean we spend money on training future terrorists?

Life is never simple. We helped Stalin. Remember?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Carter saying Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' sparks more criticism, concern about Obama plan | Fox News

Here we go again with our desperate attempts to train those who will shoot at our backs once they will be left alone.

They say you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Bush Jr. invaded the wrong country (as if he could invade the right one). Iraqis understand they will die from ISIS attacks, but many of them got addicted to ISIS propaganda. So both facts are against US there - the fact Iraqis are muslims makes them sympathize isis and they never stopped treating us as invaders so I'm not surprised they don't want to fight.

It seems Pentagon's idea was to create non-US troops to fight ISIS and to oppose terrorists without getting involved to a direct confrontation.

So, does it mean we spend money on training future terrorists?

So we should have continued spending our blood and ($10B worth monthly of) treasure to keep propping up the regime there? Even if the whole Middle East melts down, does that really affect us? Remember, we're now the world's largest producer of oil and gas.

What's sad is that there's a whole swath of Americans - conservatives - who seem to think that sending in our troops is the solution to everything, as if that would somehow make differences in religious dogma go away.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Well, I learned from my year in Vietnam that it's really impossible to be an occupying army in any foreign culture. That is, countries don't like to be invaded by any other.

You can't blame the Iraqis--why in hell do they want to fight for the gang of thieves who invaded them? The "government" is just a puppet of the US.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Let this be a lesson:

"War & invasion (regardless of intention or perceived necessity) is froth with unintended consequence"
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Well, I learned from my year in Vietnam that it's really impossible to be an occupying army in any foreign culture. That is, countries don't like to be invaded by any other.

You can't blame the Iraqis--why in hell do they want to fight for the gang of thieves who invaded them? The "government" is just a puppet of the US.

Why wouldn't they want freedom and a better government? Would you have wanted to live under Saddam?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Carter saying Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' sparks more criticism, concern about Obama plan | Fox News

Here we go again with our desperate attempts to train those who will shoot at our backs once they will be left alone.

They say you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Bush Jr. invaded the wrong country (as if he could invade the right one). Iraqis understand they will die from ISIS attacks, but many of them got addicted to ISIS propaganda. So both facts are against US there - the fact Iraqis are muslims makes them sympathize isis and they never stopped treating us as invaders so I'm not surprised they don't want to fight.

It seems Pentagon's idea was to create non-US troops to fight ISIS and to oppose terrorists without getting involved to a direct confrontation.

So, does it mean we spend money on training future terrorists?

I'm sorry, when did they have the will to fight ISIS in the first place? Their lack of will to fight is why there's an ISIS in Iraq. Unless we were willing to be permanently stationed there this was going to happen.
 
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Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Why wouldn't they want freedom and a better government? Would you have wanted to live under Saddam?

A secular leader that had zero tolerance for the religious fighting between Islamic extremists, As opposed to the Islamic State, HELL YES, not you?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

So all of the other massive crimes against humanity don't bother you?

List of Saddam's Crimes Is Long - ABC News

Sure they do. And all the crimes against humanity carried out by the United States government against the indigenous people's of America, the crimes against humanity with the US targeting of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the atrocities committed by our CIA against the Latin American community, bother me too, and?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Why wouldn't they want freedom and a better government? Would you have wanted to live under Saddam?

It depends on what was more important to them. Having a horrible dictator and ok life or an elected government and a horrible life. To some of us ideology is worth dying for. To others what is most important is housing and feeding their family.

There was certainly a portion of the population who were terrorized by the regime. But that wasn't the case for most Iraqis.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Sure they do. And all the crimes against humanity carried out by the United States government against the indigenous people's of America, the crimes against humanity with the US targeting of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the atrocities committed by our CIA against the Latin American community, bother me too, and?

Are Andrew Jackson or FDR still president? Saddam was, and we took him out to your dismay. You would've rather had a man who gassed tens of thousands of his own people than a democracy.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

It depends on what was more important to them. Having a horrible dictator and ok life or an elected government and a horrible life. To some of us ideology is worth dying for. To others what is most important is housing and feeding their family.

There was certainly a portion of the population who were terrorized by the regime. But that wasn't the case for most Iraqis.

It seems odd to me, and it must be because I'm an American and used to freedom and justice, to see citizens contentedly living under a monster who's gassed his own people. It's like there's no sympathy or concern for anyone but oneself over there.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Are Andrew Jackson or FDR still president?
Saddam was, and we took him out to your dismay.
You would've rather had a man who gassed tens of thousands of his own people than a democracy.

Which Democracy was that--the one were Bush/Cheney's stooge MALIKI massacred Sunnis and did not allow them a voice in the Iraqi government?
Think that the development of ISIL was an overnight thing?

Why did Maliki refuse a SOFA agreement with Bush/Cheney to protect our soldiers from Sharia law?
Few Americans would consider Sharia Law for our Soldiers a "Democracy" .
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Which Democracy was that--the one were Bush/Cheney's stooge MALIKI massacred Sunnis and did not allow them a voice in the Iraqi government?
Think that the development of ISIL was an overnight thing?

Why did Maliki refuse a SOFA agreement with Bush/Cheney to protect our soldiers from Sharia law?
Few Americans would consider Sharia Law for our Soldiers a "Democracy" .

Don't they get to vote?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I don't blame them, the US condition them to fight and kill their brethren. The common enemy is the US now.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

It seems odd to me, and it must be because I'm an American and used to freedom and justice, to see citizens contentedly living under a monster who's gassed his own people. It's like there's no sympathy or concern for anyone but oneself over there.

It is definitely a culture thing. I am also an American but i spent the better part of 2 decades living in places like Libya, Cambodia and Zimbabwe.

It is easy for us, with our decent houses, and cable TV, and two cars per family, consistent electricity and clean water and more food than we know what to do with. We can afford to spend out time and mental resources on political outrage. But in other places what is most important is just "getting by". And when you see other people not getting by it is just a reminder of how good you have it, relatively speaking.

It is very, VERY difficult for us to put ourselves in their shoes. We are shaped by our cultures and the societies in which we are raised.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Are Andrew Jackson or FDR still president? Saddam was, and we took him out to your dismay. You would've rather had a man who gassed tens of thousands of his own people than a democracy.

Oh, were such an idea a real possibility for Iraq, I'd rather have it. But sense it's not, I'll take Saddam back. He may have killed tens of thousands, but the Iraq war claimed the lives of a couple hundred thousand.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Oh, were such an idea a real possibility for Iraq, I'd rather have it. But sense it's not, I'll take Saddam back. He may have killed tens of thousands, but the Iraq war claimed the lives of a couple hundred thousand.

By that logic, would you rather we didn't fight our Civil War?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

By that logic, would you rather we didn't fight our Civil War?

Of course I wouldn't have preferred fighting a war that cost the lives of 600,000 Americans for the sake of preserving the union.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Nothing, you're right, voting is meaningless.

Yeah, pretty much, ask Iraqis. Matter of fact, it doesn't mean a lot in the US.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Of course I wouldn't have preferred fighting a war that cost the lives of 600,000 Americans for the sake of preserving the union.

So bring back slavery and add to it a north and south U.S. that may not have been strong enough to exist today lol.

Goodnight.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

So bring back slavery and add to it a north and south U.S. that may not have been strong enough to exist today lol.

Goodnight.

No, slavery was on the way out as it needed to be. States rights though should never be on the way out. As to the union, I'm not opposed to it, but I would oppose another civil war to preserve it now. Night night.
 
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