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Ohio House bill would ban abortions spurred by diagnosis of Down syndrome

It's called compassion. Are you anti-compassion?

In fact, there are many with Down Syndrome who are productive members of society.

Downs is different for everyone. Some are high functioning and some are very sick and need constant surgery on their extremities as well as heart surgeries. I think it is more about quality of life risk than productiveness. I know a couple who has a little Down's girl and her Mom knew by prenatal testing that Down's Syndrome was a high risk and she decided to keep her. The little girl is 13 and has multiple surgeries on her feet and heart and has suffered greatly. She is dependent for life on her parents and now they are worried about who will care for her when they are gone. The Mom was 46 when the girl was born. I know another case where the son with Down's lives in an apartment and works for a local grocery store. It is hard to determine which way it will fall...but banning abortion in this case would be wrong due to the multiple circumstances. I am sure this would be a miserable decision for a parent.
 


Are you seriously posting a video of one monkey and claiming all monkeys do that?

I was talking about birth defects anyway, not anything like this.
 
Downs is different for everyone. Some are high functioning and some are very sick and need constant surgery on their extremities as well as heart surgeries. I think it is more about quality of life risk than productiveness. I know a couple who has a little Down's girl and her Mom knew by prenatal testing that Down's Syndrome was a high risk and she decided to keep her. The little girl is 13 and has multiple surgeries on her feet and heart and has suffered greatly. She is dependent for life on her parents and now they are worried about who will care for her when they are gone. The Mom was 46 when the girl was born. I know another case where the son with Down's lives in an apartment and works for a local grocery store. It is hard to determine which way it will fall...but banning abortion in this case would be wrong due to the multiple circumstances. I am sure this would be a miserable decision for a parent.

What would that family been able to accomplish if they didn't have to spend the time and resources on that baby/child?
 
Are you seriously posting a video of one monkey and claiming all monkeys do that?

I was talking about birth defects anyway, not anything like this.

Well your beliefs are completely ludicrous, inhuman to say the least.
 
Downs is different for everyone. Some are high functioning and some are very sick and need constant surgery on their extremities as well as heart surgeries. I think it is more about quality of life risk than productiveness. I know a couple who has a little Down's girl and her Mom knew by prenatal testing that Down's Syndrome was a high risk and she decided to keep her. The little girl is 13 and has multiple surgeries on her feet and heart and has suffered greatly. She is dependent for life on her parents and now they are worried about who will care for her when they are gone. The Mom was 46 when the girl was born. I know another case where the son with Down's lives in an apartment and works for a local grocery store. It is hard to determine which way it will fall...but banning abortion in this case would be wrong due to the multiple circumstances. I am sure this would be a miserable decision for a parent.

I don't disagree. Every case is different. I would rather err on the side of caution though, and preserve all human life. Who are we to say a life rife with malady is less preferable than no life at all? Not that you said that, just making a point. :)

I would prefer abortions never occur, but I think pro-lifers should concentrate on limiting late term abortions, rather than subjective perceptions such as this down syndrome legislation.
 
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What would that family been able to accomplish if they didn't have to spend the time and resources on that baby/child?

Oh...it is rough on them financially. He will never be able to retire and the Mom was never able to work to care for her. He received an inheritance when his parents died and was able to pay off the house...that is what saved them. They love her dearly but I think the Mom sometimes reflects what if. She never gets a break...24/7 and she is a older Mom. I feel bad for them.
 
Ah, right. On the other hand, the hypocritical phrasings of the false Christian religion are completely intellectually respectable. I'd forgotten. How thoughtless of me.

I rest my case.
 
I don't disagree. Every case is different. I would rather err on the side of caution though, and preserve all human life. Who are we to say a life rife with malady is less preferable than no life at all?

I would prefer abortions never occur, but I think pro-lifers should concentrate on limiting late term abortions, rather than subjective perceptions such as this down syndrome legislation.

That is exactly the case...we cannot say or make choices for others in a free society. I wish abortion numbers were much lower than they are...and would never get one myself...but I will never judge or choose for another person. The older I get, the softer I become on this issue...and I agree late term abortions should never happen unless the Mother's life is in danger or something horribly goes wrong with the fetus. If a woman cannot make a decision within 12 weeks for what is best for her situation...then live with the mistake or consequence. Adoption is a choice too. The hospital that I work for is one of the no questions asked drop off spots for people who do not want their children anymore...and we have seen a fair share of infants. Those babies are gone within hours of people who want them, mostly the staff members. There are strong pro choice advocates pushing for 26 weeks...then it will go to 30 weeks..etc. I have read some articles where abortions are performed because of the sex.
 
Google it. I was being much nastier than you think.



They are a collective drain on resources.

I don't begrudge your views on the rhino; I accept and endorse them wholeheartedly. I am simply extending your logic.

To the nonsensical. That is not a society – It is a caveman mentality.
 
Ah, right. On the other hand, the hypocritical phrasings of the false Christian religion are completely intellectually respectable. I'd forgotten. How thoughtless of me.

Is their a true Religion?
 
I don't disagree. Every case is different. I would rather err on the side of caution though, and preserve all human life. Who are we to say a life rife with malady is less preferable than no life at all? Not that you said that, just making a point. :)

I would prefer abortions never occur, but I think pro-lifers should concentrate on limiting late term abortions, rather than subjective perceptions such as this down syndrome legislation.

CB, Morning
I am Pro Abortion as the women’s decision to make up to a point.
I agree with the prohibition on late term abortions, approx at the 22 week mark as the child is viable.
Only exception would be if the mother’s life was at risk, and that would be hers to make, and hers to live or die with.
In 76 my girlfriend became pregnant. I offered the usual things a man does, but it was hers to make.
My daughter or son would be turning 39 late this year. It seems to be a constant on my mind.
 
Well your beliefs are completely ludicrous, inhuman to say the least.

Bull. How could they be inhuman if they are inline with the betterment of the species?

Humans are on this earth to reproduce. All the other stuff is man made crap.
 
Oh...it is rough on them financially. He will never be able to retire and the Mom was never able to work to care for her. He received an inheritance when his parents died and was able to pay off the house...that is what saved them. They love her dearly but I think the Mom sometimes reflects what if. She never gets a break...24/7 and she is a older Mom. I feel bad for them.

Did they have any other kids? I really feel sorry for the other kids in a family where there is a baby like this. They don't get what they need to thrive.
 
How are they going to prove that a given abortion was performed because the fetus had downs?

Greetings, Dittohead not! :2wave:

It sounds like doctors are going to be on the "hot-seat," because they'll be required to produce records of blood-work and ultrasound testing, and when said testing was done, to determine if the fetus had downs. Would they be required to give such tests to every pregnant mother they have as a patient, or would it be on a case to case basis depending on family history? This would almost guarantee that obstetrics is going to get a lot more expensive than it already is, IMO. Since the sponsor of the bill doesn't feel that getting an abortion is warranted just because a baby may have downs, I don't see this bill being voted into law, especially since a woman may currently have an abortion for any reason she wishes. .
 
Bull. How could they be inhuman if they are inline with the betterment of the species?

Humans are on this earth to reproduce. All the other stuff is man made crap.

Betterment of society and you state my belief is BS.
What would that family been able to accomplish if they didn't have to spend the time and resources on that baby/child?
Did they have any other kids? I really feel sorry for the other kids in a family where there is a baby like this. They don't get what they need to thrive.
Everything to you is about resources. Sad, really sad.
 
Did they have any other kids? I really feel sorry for the other kids in a family where there is a baby like this. They don't get what they need to thrive.

He has a adult son from a previous marriage. This pregnancy came later in life and was a mistake. He was in his early 50's when she was born. They love her dearly and she is the sunshine of their life...but it is so much harder in middle age with a child with special needs. Keep in mind, with all the surgeries she has had on her feet...she doesn't get around very well...and uses a diaper at 13. She is starting to gain weight from inactivity and it is getting hard for her Mom to carry her and help her around. The sad thing....they are a middle class couple and there is nothing really available to help them with her.
 
Betterment of society and you state my belief is BS.


Everything to you is about resources. Sad, really sad.

Not sad at all. Realistic
 
He has a adult son from a previous marriage. This pregnancy came later in life and was a mistake. He was in his early 50's when she was born. They love her dearly and she is the sunshine of their life...but it is so much harder in middle age with a child with special needs. Keep in mind, with all the surgeries she has had on her feet...she doesn't get around very well...and uses a diaper at 13. She is starting to gain weight from inactivity and it is getting hard for her Mom to carry her and help her around. The sad thing....they are a middle class couple and there is nothing really available to help them with her.

Yes that is very sad and it must be very hard.

What are they going to do long term when they are not there any more?
 
Greetings, Dittohead not! :2wave:

It sounds like doctors are going to be on the "hot-seat," because they'll be required to produce records of blood-work and ultrasound testing, and when said testing was done, to determine if the fetus had downs. Would they be required to give such tests to every pregnant mother they have as a patient, or would it be on a case to case basis depending on family history? This would almost guarantee that obstetrics is going to get a lot more expensive than it already is, IMO. Since the sponsor of the bill doesn't feel that getting an abortion is warranted just because a baby may have downs, I don't see this bill being voted into law, especially since a woman may currently have an abortion for any reason she wishes. .

Exactly, and, after all of the expensive tests are performed and the woman wants to abort, then what? If the doctor asks whether she is choosing to abort because the fetus is downs, all she has to say is, "no."
 
Many downs syndrome people and their parents would challenge you on whether or not they are productive members of society, and rightly so. Irrespective of the issue identified in the OP, your comment is truly offensive.

I agree with you.

Incidentally, my bestie had a boy with Down Syndrome. He died at age 5 because of a heart defect, and she had a breakdown. She says she would never abort a pregnancy, but she believes women should have the choice, regardless of their reason for doing so.
 
I agree with you.

Incidentally, my bestie had a boy with Down Syndrome. He died at age 5 because of a heart defect, and she had a breakdown. She says she would never abort a pregnancy, but she believes women should have the choice, regardless of their reason for doing so.

I've seen lots of down syndrome children on television and certainly they're quit prominent in Special Olympics and other such events. When I was working, there was a young man, in his early 20s, who was a down syndrome child and his parents had both just died and he remained living in their home, on his own, with community supports but he had a job and was well presented and behaved and quite pleasant every time I met him near my office.

I can imagine the prospect of any child is daunting, let alone a special needs child, but to give a blanket indictment to all such children is just so wrong.
 
Why would anybody be against aborting a baby with a life altering condition which would guarantee that person would never be a productive member of society?

While I maintain that choice is paramount, I think a lot of people have been provided poor information and a lack of resource connections.

There needs to be a great deal of humility involved in trying to either determine whether another person's life is worth living as well as what their prospects hold. Persons with Down Syndrome and many other disabilities have had the unfortunate experience of professionals (be they from the medical profession or the education profession) completely downplay their capabilities, and many have often proved them wrong. Is it like that for most? Not necessarily. Professionals can be right a decent chunk of the time. But does that still make them right about whether or not someone has the right to life and whether it was justifiable to write someone off in the womb, after birth, or in their first years? I have incredible doubts on the professional's prescience on both accounts. They aren't given that kind of authority on anyone else, but we kind of presume it's a-okay for people with disabilities.
 
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Not sad at all. Realistic
You place a resource driven, what they can produce value to each person.
Do you have any friends with sick children, or perhaps people with a physical or mental disability, and your philosophy would subject them to a cull.
 
Yes that is very sad and it must be very hard.

What are they going to do long term when they are not there any more?

That is where a responsible society that cares for the weak steps up to the plate.
 
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