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Warren Buffett: $15 minimum wage will hurt the working class

Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

They're not objectively better. Period. The pilot is just in a better position to negotiate for economic gain. Income is a very poor measure of personal or moral value.

But's it is a kick butt measure of economic value. Pay is a measure of the value of service one provides to the economy. It's also related to the scarcity of those qualified to provide the specific economic benefit their labor provides. Burger flippers are a dime a dozen, and are paid accordingly. An airline pilot is not, so the pay is considerably different. Should a retired airline pilot expect to be paid the same as when they were flying should they take a job at McDonalds?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Maybe you missed it, but part of my point is that welfare actually contributes to wages being lower than they would be if welfare didn't exist.

In the absence of welfare, wages would be lower since those who now choose to sit out of the workforce would have to participate or starve
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

If you accept that a $15 minimum wage will eventually reach an equilibrium where those at the bottom see their gains gobbled up by inflation ...
If you accept that making college education free and universal would devalue college degrees to the level of a HS diploma ...

... then don't you also have to accept....

I would think that people who think that $15 minimum wage is a good idea, don't agree that the pay increase would be "gobbled up by inflation".
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

It hurts the graphic designer (I am one, BTW, and $15 is low-ball for my field, but whatever) by putting inflationary pressure on low-end goods and services. To be fair, though, any policy that increases demand by putting more money in poor people's hands is going to create inflationary pressure.

Here's a CBO report from last year estimating the effects of a raise in the federal minimum wage. According to them, it would push some families out of poverty and enrich the poor in general, but some jobs would be lost entirely.

Ironically, it's the understanding that we're all in the same economic boat that both undermines redistributive policies and makes them necessary.

Historically, there has never been an spike in the inflation rate that correlates with previous increases in minimum wage.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

No. I am basing the harm done to him on the fact that his skill, education and training is worth exactly the same as an unskilled, untrained worker hired on to do the same work....

If that ends up being the case, then so what? Either his wages will increase, or not, either way, he is no worse off.

Lots of highly skilled people make low wages. Like musicians, who often can only find "free" work, or who only get paid tips. But they still do it, because they love to.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

No. I am basing the harm done to him on the fact that his skill, education and training is worth exactly the same as an unskilled, untrained worker hired on to do the same work.

Any time. But lets pretend you are being honest. You spent years, likely in the military learning to fly and spent thousands of hours in the **** pit. Lets say because of your skill, training, talent, and education you make $50 per hour. Minimum wage is raised to $50 per hour. What has just happened to you? Your skill, training, talent and education has just been devalued. Your labor is now worth no more than that of the 16 year old unskilled, untrained, uneducated boob. That might be something commies like, but not anyone that has actually thought things through.

I'd be making the same amount of money while still doing something I enjoy. As an added benefit, a much larger percentage of the population would be able to afford my services, so likely I'm going to have to expand my business and hire more people.

Terrifying.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

In the absence of welfare, wages would be lower since those who now choose to sit out of the workforce would have to participate or starve

And this strikes you as a good thing?
 
Not quite. The new salary has to be higher than the reservation wage. if it isnot, they stay on welfare. Or to put it insimpler terms... it puts upward pressure on the salary. in the prior, the salary wasnt high enough, so employyes cut back the hours supplied.

They wouldn't stay on welfare if welfare no longer existed.

I really don't understand how you can claim to be a conservative, yet support welfare so much.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Don't be stupid. The comparison being made was between a 16 year old kid and an airline pilot. If you think the average pilot isn't 'better' by virtually every objective standard of measure than a McDonalds crew member, you aren't that bright.

The irony is that if he isn't "that bright", then his point has been proven and you have been proven wrong.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Are you 16? Is that the problem? A pilot is objectively better trained and better educated and better prepared to handle almost any life situation than a 16 year old would be. It is impossible to pretend otherwise.
BECAUSE he is better educated, better trained, has a higher skill level and more experience. Which is the point. Income is a measure of value. Something that is, again, impossible to pretend otherwise.

Income is determined by negotiating power more than anything else. Employers generally pay as little as possible and still be able to hire and retain the type of employees that they need. Education and skill naturally are part of ones negotiating power, but employers don't directly pay that any attention. There are lots of jobs that pay more than jobs that require a higher skill or education level.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

But's it is a kick butt measure of economic value. Pay is a measure of the value of service one provides to the economy....

Not at all. Pay is determined by negotiating power.

If I can hire you for $8/hr, and if you are suitable for he position I need to fill, I'm not going to offer you more money just because you have a PhD.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

In the absence of welfare, wages would be lower since those who now choose to sit out of the workforce would have to participate or starve

The vast majority of welfare recipients already work.

The most common form of means tested welfare is the earned income tax credit, and to qualify for that, you have to work.

Basically, it sounds to me that your position is that we should pay people to stay out of the workforce. Wouldn't lowering the SS retirment age be a better way to do the same thing rather than to pay young people to not work?

And are you another self proclaimed conservative who supports the idea of the welfare state, or am I just not understanding your position?
 
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You called minimum-wage workers boobs and insinuated you're better than them and, thus, should be paid more. If they get a raise, you deserve a raise because your x% better than them, right? You obviously care very much what other people make and see wages as a measure of personal worth. So you must be outraged that CEOs make so much compared to professionals like you. Or do you actually believe they're better than you?

In terms of the market, he is better than them. it is funny, though, that most of what you are denegrating above, applies quite firmly to those doing most of the advocating for upping the min. wage, unions. Who know that if min wage goes up, their contracts will also mean raises for their workers.Yes, they very much care what others are making and not altruisitcally.... and of course the workers who see their wages as a measure of worth And believe themselves worth more, though they are not.
 
They wouldn't stay on welfare if welfare no longer existed.

I really don't understand how you can claim to be a conservative, yet support welfare so much.

Right, causing more labor supply and decreasing wages... or welfare is not a subsidy to employers.

It is clear you dont understand, as i never made any such claim.
 
Right, causing more labor supply and decreasing wages... or welfare is not a subsidy to employers.

It is clear you dont understand, as i never made any such claim.

I'll admit it when I am wrong, and I may have been wrong. I just looked back, and never did you actually advocate for welfare.

However you did point express an opinion about the results of welfare which would tend to sound like it is good for our economy, or at least good for the welfare receipent - which is why I supposed I assumed you supported welfare.
 
However you did point express an opinion about the results of welfare which would tend to sound like it is good for our economy, or at least good for the welfare receipent - which is why I supposed I assumed you supported welfare.

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. I was simply informing you what the economist who is seen as one of the big experts on the subject indicated and that is that welfare is not a subsidy to corporations. I understand you do not agree with him.

But, in short, if the types of jobs that are MW jobs disappeared, welfare costs would go up, not down as would occur if it were a subsidy to employers. If welfare increased, it would put upward pressure on wages, not down as would be required for it to be a subsidy to employers.

But, no. I do not believe we should increase welfare. I would actually like to see some decrease in what is currently offered but certainly not elimination of all.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Are you 16? Is that the problem? A pilot is objectively better trained and better educated and better prepared to handle almost any life situation than a 16 year old would be. It is impossible to pretend otherwise.
BECAUSE he is better educated, better trained, has a higher skill level and more experience. Which is the point. Income is a measure of value. Something that is, again, impossible to pretend otherwise.

Training, skill set and education are only one way people gain leverage for economic gain. But it's not the only or even the most lucrative way. It's good advice to encourage any individual to improve his or her skill set, but it's not a cure for systemic obstacles.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Training, skill set and education are only one way people gain leverage for economic gain. But it's not the only or even the most lucrative way. It's good advice to encourage any individual to improve his or her skill set, but it's not a cure for systemic obstacles.

Sucking up to the boss can help also. Or being willing to move to an area that is in a high need of workers, like North Dakota was a year ago.

Illegal activity is a great way to increase negotiating power. Look what it did for Madeoff (for the 20 years before he was caught).
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Sucking up to the boss can help also. Or being willing to move to an area that is in a high need of workers, like North Dakota was a year ago.

Illegal activity is a great way to increase negotiating power. Look what it did for Madeoff (for the 20 years before he was caught).

And, of course, he biggest help is having well-placed friends and relatives.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

And, of course, he biggest help is having well-placed friends and relatives.

Geesh, I can't believe I forgot that one.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

If that ends up being the case, then so what? Either his wages will increase, or not, either way, he is no worse off.
So what??? What kind of response is that?? You claim to have employees. Do you honestly think they will feel no worse off when an entry level, unskilled position pays them as much as your skilled position pays them? What the hell are you thinking??
Lots of highly skilled people make low wages. Like musicians, who often can only find "free" work, or who only get paid tips. But they still do it, because they love to.
So your concern is only for the relative few who make minimum and not the vast majority of employees who will see the value of their labor vanish. Brilliant.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

I'd be making the same amount of money while still doing something I enjoy. As an added benefit, a much larger percentage of the population would be able to afford my services, so likely I'm going to have to expand my business and hire more people.

Terrifying.
What is terrifying is how mindless a statement that is. By that 'reasoning' why not scrap the minimum wage and just have a state mandated wage that is the same for every job. A doctor makes the same as an entry level burger flipper. An airline pilot makes the same as a coffee barista at Starbucks. Brilliant.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

The vast majority of welfare recipients already work.

The most common form of means tested welfare is the earned income tax credit, and to qualify for that, you have to work.

Basically, it sounds to me that your position is that we should pay people to stay out of the workforce. Wouldn't lowering the SS retirment age be a better way to do the same thing rather than to pay young people to not work?

And are you another self proclaimed conservative who supports the idea of the welfare state, or am I just not understanding your position?
This ^
 
The left loves to post Warren Buffett and parrot what he says as the way things should be done.
https://fortune.com/2015/05/22/warren-buffett-minimum-wage/

well he just came out and made the same statement that other people have already acknowledged.
a $15 minimum wage will hurt middle income families.

His idea is to expand the EIC.

You know why it will hurt the middle class, because rich people's greed will overpower their humanity and they will simply hire less people in order to maintain their bottom lines. It's not that they cant afford to pay their workers a living wage, its just that they don't want to.
 
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