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Warren Buffett: $15 minimum wage will hurt the working class

JANFU said:
Cutting all welfare, problem is there are specific people that welfare is the only road they have, illness, disability and so on.
As to wage increases, used to be as productivity increased so did wages & that is no longer the situation. Has not been for decades.
Higher paying jobs, one issue are many are without skills or have very basic skill sets. Then training/education is needed.
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I have no issue with providing for the exceptionally handicapped. No one is opposing that.
 
buck said:
Studies of the 70s welfare impacts, showed an increase of part time work related to the amount of benefits being offered. people wanted less full time work, as they would then be eating into the free money from the govt.
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Exactly. Welfare incentivizes people to accept jobs with lower incomes.
 
imagep said:
I have no issue with providing for the exceptionally handicapped. No one is opposing that.
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One on here would remove children and place them in orphanages.
One issue we have up here is losing certain welfare benefits as wages increase, dental and day care as an example.
It makes for an economic trap.
Each Province differs, same as each State does.
 
WSUwarrior said:
This thread is proof that Limbaugh, who I have never listened to because his show is not available in my area unfortunately, is right on target with that belief.
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Absurd. Just because someone supports the existence of a minimum wage doesn't mean they are a communist.
 
WSUwarrior said:
If every time I refresh I get 12 quotes of my same quote, Im not responding to all 12....especially when they are just saying the same thing. Its clear that I am slapping you around with no effort and I am living in your head rent free. Meanwhile, I cant even tell one of you from the other.
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12 quotes of the same quote? There is something seriously wrong with your browser.
 
JANFU said:
One on here would remove children and place them in orphanages.
One issue we have up here is losing certain welfare benefits as wages increase, dental and day care as an example.
It makes for an economic trap.
Each Province differs, same as each State does.
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Those children may be better off under state care, than living in the house of a single mother on welfare.

The existence of welfare itself contributes to people having more kids than they could otherwise afford.
 
imagep said:
The existence of welfare itself contributes to people having more kids than they could otherwise afford.
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I think that is a common fallacy many have.
 
Welfare, like anything in life, can be abused. Currently, it is being abused by corporate America to allow tax payers to support people rather than business. It needs to be addressed.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

imagep said:
It's amazing that libertarians and conservatives will lecture me that I shouldn't care how much money the rich make because it's none of my business, yet libertarians and conservatives are arguing that increasing the pay of low wage workers concerns them.
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What it you aren't getting about this conversation? Seriously. State mandated, arbitrary increases in pay for anyone concerns me as it should concern you. Plus, as I pointed out to you earlier, a virtual doubling of the minimum will impact the entire employee payment structure. You agreed with this and are now complaining. Make up your mind.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Deuce said:
It's literally what you said. The graphics designer "wont be happy" about making the same amount as a burger flipper.

I make what I make. Why do you think I'll be upset if fast food workers make more money than they do now? Does that make me poorer?

Other than some need to feel superior, why would I be unhappy?

McDonald's is a ****ty job. I wouldn't work there for the same money I make flying planes.
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Pay attention. The skilled graphics designer whose $15 an hour job was the result of education, hard work and experience is now about to have all that washed away by an arbitrary, state mandated increase in pay for the uneducated, unskilled, and untrained. He now will be making the same. Clearly, your lack of understanding comes from your pay scale being at the minimum wage level, but, just for a moment, pretend you actually had a skill, cultivated it, and were rewarded by your employer for that effort in the form of a wage nearly double what the average unskilled imbecile would make. Would you be happy with that? Or expect your employer to have your wages keep pace with the arbitrary?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

The truth is that minimum wage increases (or at least the one the president proposes) helps the middle class more than those in poverty. Those in poverty need much more than just a wage lift to get them out of poverty.

However, the 39 percent hike in the minimum wage proposed by President Obama would benefit two-thirds of workers in households with annual incomes over twice the poverty line ($47,100 for a family of four) and 40 percent of workers with household incomes three times the federal poverty level ($70,650 for a family of four) - or three times the percentage of poor workers who would benefit. Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

If you accept that a $15 minimum wage will eventually reach an equilibrium where those at the bottom see their gains gobbled up by inflation ...
If you accept that making college education free and universal would devalue college degrees to the level of a HS diploma ...

... then don't you also have to accept that a percentage of the population in our market-based system will ALWAYS be mired in poverty? Doesn't that make it incumbent to provide robust social safety nets like food stamps? Doesn't that make wealth redistribution an inevitable facet of market economics when applied to actual human lives?

That seems to be what Buffett is saying -- instead of trying to force the market to accept everyone, which in a competitive system is a losing proposition long term, just give poor people money directly so they can participate in the economy. I support workers fighting for greater pay, but I think Buffett is right about the long term benefits of minimum wage versus redistributive programs like the EIC.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Fletch said:
Pay attention. The skilled graphics designer whose $15 an hour job was the result of education, hard work and experience is now about to have all that washed away by an arbitrary, state mandated increase in pay for the uneducated, unskilled, and untrained. He now will be making the same.
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But it wasn't washed away. His pay doesn't decrease. His job doesn't get worse. Nothing about his life becomes worse than it was before. You're basing this entire "harm" done to the Graphics Designer on other people being better off.

I fly planes for a living. If you want to continue with personal attacks about skill, I'm happy to engage in a spot landing contest with you.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Deuce said:
But it wasn't washed away. His pay doesn't decrease. His job doesn't get worse. Nothing about his life becomes worse than it was before. You're basing this entire "harm" done to the Graphics Designer on other people being better off.

I fly planes for a living. If you want to continue with personal attacks about skill, I'm happy to engage in a spot landing contest with you.
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It hurts the graphic designer (I am one, BTW, and $15 is low-ball for my field, but whatever) by putting inflationary pressure on low-end goods and services. To be fair, though, any policy that increases demand by putting more money in poor people's hands is going to create inflationary pressure.

Here's a CBO report from last year estimating the effects of a raise in the federal minimum wage. According to them, it would push some families out of poverty and enrich the poor in general, but some jobs would be lost entirely.

Ironically, it's the understanding that we're all in the same economic boat that both undermines redistributive policies and makes them necessary.
 
WSUwarrior said:
Employers wont food the bill for anything....YOU will pay their higher wages, just like YOU will pay their taxes for them.

Want higher wages...eliminate the corporate tax. Stop take, take, taking from businesses all the time and PRETENDING that is good for anything.
Deuce said:
The idea that lower corporate taxes would increase wages is absolutely comical.
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Yes, such a belief is comical. Corporate taxes are paid on corporate profits. The idea that we need to make after-tax profits even higher so somehow employers will handover those profits to employees and not stockholders, doesn't seem clear.

To illustrate how wrong that view is, we already know that wages are now stagnant and among the lowest in modern time. Let's look at corporate taxes over time. That's right, corporate taxes have been declining and this hasn't resulted in higher wages.

US-corporate-income-taxes-pct-share-gdp-1946-2009.PNG
 

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Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Deuce said:
But it wasn't washed away. His pay doesn't decrease. His job doesn't get worse. Nothing about his life becomes worse than it was before. You're basing this entire "harm" done to the Graphics Designer on other people being better off.
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No. I am basing the harm done to him on the fact that his skill, education and training is worth exactly the same as an unskilled, untrained worker hired on to do the same work.

fly planes for a living. If you want to continue with personal attacks about skill, I'm happy to engage in a spot landing contest with you.
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Any time. But lets pretend you are being honest. You spent years, likely in the military learning to fly and spent thousands of hours in the **** pit. Lets say because of your skill, training, talent, and education you make $50 per hour. Minimum wage is raised to $50 per hour. What has just happened to you? Your skill, training, talent and education has just been devalued. Your labor is now worth no more than that of the 16 year old unskilled, untrained, uneducated boob. That might be something commies like, but not anyone that has actually thought things through.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Fletch said:
No. I am basing the harm done to him on the fact that his skill, education and training is worth exactly the same as an unskilled, untrained worker hired on to do the same work.

Any time. But lets pretend you are being honest. You spent years, likely in the military learning to fly and spent thousands of hours in the **** pit. Lets say because of your skill, training, talent, and education you make $50 per hour. Minimum wage is raised to $50 per hour. What has just happened to you? Your skill, training, talent and education has just been devalued. Your labor is now worth no more than that of the 16 year old unskilled, untrained, uneducated boob. That might be something commies like, but not anyone that has actually thought things through.
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A superiority complex is poor justification for macroeconomic policy. You must think CEOs are WAY overpaid.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

GhostlyJoe said:
A superiority complex is poor justification for macroeconomic policy. You must think CEOs are WAY overpaid.
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What???
 
imagep said:
Exactly. Welfare incentivizes people to accept jobs with lower incomes.
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Not quite. The new salary has to be higher than the reservation wage. if it isnot, they stay on welfare. Or to put it insimpler terms... it puts upward pressure on the salary. in the prior, the salary wasnt high enough, so employyes cut back the hours supplied.
 
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Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Fletch said:
What???
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You called minimum-wage workers boobs and insinuated you're better than them and, thus, should be paid more. If they get a raise, you deserve a raise because your x% better than them, right? You obviously care very much what other people make and see wages as a measure of personal worth. So you must be outraged that CEOs make so much compared to professionals like you. Or do you actually believe they're better than you?
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

GhostlyJoe said:
You called minimum-wage workers boobs and insinuated you're better than them and, thus, should be paid more. If they get a raise, you deserve a raise because your x% better than them, right? You obviously care very much what other people make and see wages as a measure of personal worth. So you must be outraged that CEOs make so much compared to professionals like you. Or do you actually believe they're better than you?
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Don't be stupid. The comparison being made was between a 16 year old kid and an airline pilot. If you think the average pilot isn't 'better' by virtually every objective standard of measure than a McDonalds crew member, you aren't that bright.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Fletch said:
Don't be stupid. The comparison being made was between a 16 year old kid and an airline pilot. If you think the average pilot isn't 'better' by virtually every objective standard of measure than a McDonalds crew member, you aren't that bright.
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They're not objectively better. Period. The pilot is just in a better position to negotiate for economic gain. Income is a very poor measure of personal or moral value.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

Fletch said:
What it you aren't getting about this conversation? Seriously. State mandated, arbitrary increases in pay for anyone concerns me as it should concern you. Plus, as I pointed out to you earlier, a virtual doubling of the minimum will impact the entire employee payment structure. You agreed with this and are now complaining. Make up your mind.
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Maybe you missed it, but part of my point is that welfare actually contributes to wages being lower than they would be if welfare didn't exist.
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

BrewerBob said:
I'm not among those who quote Buffett but are you saying that if someone agrees with a person on some things they must agree with that person on all things?
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So when they don't then they should wish him death? Wow...
 
Re: Warren Buffett Don't raise the minimum wage

GhostlyJoe said:
They're not objectively better. Period.
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Are you 16? Is that the problem? A pilot is objectively better trained and better educated and better prepared to handle almost any life situation than a 16 year old would be. It is impossible to pretend otherwise.
The pilot is just in a better position to negotiate for economic gain. Income is a very poor measure of personal or moral value.
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BECAUSE he is better educated, better trained, has a higher skill level and more experience. Which is the point. Income is a measure of value. Something that is, again, impossible to pretend otherwise.
 
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