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Ukraine to honor groups that killed Jews in World War II

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Humans are so disappointing sometimes. What are your thoughts on this?

Ukraine to honor groups that killed Jews in World War II - World - - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

New Ukrainian laws that came into effect over the past two months will outlaw the display of objects and names from the country's communist past, while honoring groups that collaborated with the Nazis in the extermination of Ukrainian Jewry, Bloomberg reports. A law signed by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko last week bans all Soviet and Nazi symbols, including town and street names. It is expected to lead to the renaming such regional centers as Dnipropetrovsk (named after Grigory Petrovsky, who ran Ukraine in the 1920s and 1930s) and Kirovograd (bearing the name of Sergei Kirov, a Bolshevik leader allegedly killed by Stalin,) as well as dozens of other towns and hundreds of streets. Another bill, signed into law in April, prescribes that Ukrainians honor a number of World War II nationalist organizations, some of which – such as the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) – fought alongside the Nazis. The law was protested by 40 historians from major Western universities in an open letter to Poroshenko and Ukrainian legislators.

"Not only would it be a crime to question the legitimacy of an organization (UPA) that slaughtered tens of thousands of Poles in one of the most heinous acts of ethnic cleansing in the history of Ukraine," the historians wrote, " but also it would exempt from criticism the OUN, one of the most extreme political groups in Western Ukraine between the wars, and one which collaborated with Nazi Germany at the outset of the Soviet invasion in 1941. "It also took part in anti-Jewish pogroms in Ukraine and, in the case of the Melnyk faction, remained allied with the occupation regime throughout the war." The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe also criticized the laws. “Broadly and vaguely defined language that restricts individuals from expressing views on past events and people, could easily lead to suppression of political, provocative and critical speech, especially in the media,” wrote Dunja Mijatovic, OSCE representative on freedom of the media, in April. "As Ukraine advances on the difficult road to full democracy, we strongly urge the nation's government to refrain from any measure that preempts or censors discussion or politicizes the study of history," the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum said in a statement.
 
My thoughts are that this is further proof that us getting involved is a terrible idea. Ukraine is a cesspool of corruption and a financial black hole. The Russians are "the good guys" by comparison.
 
Humans are so disappointing sometimes. What are your thoughts on this?

Though allied with NAZI Germany, the UPA did not participate in the Jewish Holocaust. Rather, they were directed to neither harm, nor necessarily assist Jews either. Sadly, many western resistance groups also had similar instructions.

The UPA did kill tens of thousands of Polish men, women and children. These criminal actions should not be denied, but they should be examined in context as Polish Home Army resistance groups also committed punitive atrocities (smaller in scale, but that was due to a lack of ability, not a lack of intent) on Ukrainian civilians during the same period and in the same disputed province.

As a side note, the Ukrainian government has "de-listed" the individual UPA commanders who directly led attacks on Polish civilians or propagadized anti Polish mob actions from being officialy recognizxed as Heros of Ukraine.
 
Though allied with NAZI Germany, the UPA did not participate in the Jewish Holocaust. Rather, they were directed to neither harm, nor necessarily assist Jews either. Sadly, many western resistance groups also had similar instructions.

The UPA did kill tens of thousands of Polish men, women and children. These criminal actions should not be denied, but they should be examined in context as Polish Home Army resistance groups also committed punitive atrocities (smaller in scale, but that was due to a lack of ability, not a lack of intent) on Ukrainian civilians during the same period and in the same disputed province.

As a side note, the Ukrainian government has "de-listed" the individual UPA commanders who directly led attacks on Polish civilians or propagadized anti Polish mob actions from being officialy recognizxed as Heros of Ukraine.

What does that mean exactly?
 
Waiting for the apologists of this nazi regime to spin a positive on this.
 
Waiting for the apologists of this nazi regime to spin a positive on this.

You wont find any Nazi apologists here. Such people are banned very quickly.
 
You wont find any Nazi apologists here. Such people are banned very quickly.

Overtly sure, but the nazi elements to the Ukraine government which get excused, ignored, denied, etc., was my reference.
 
Why not point them out to the moderators while providing material to support your accusation?

They get pointed out and banned all the time, but not before they spout their drivel for a few days.
 
Why not point them out to the moderators while providing material to support your accusation?

Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government
It's time for a frank conversation about some of the unsavory characters in Kiev.

Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government | Foreign Policy



CFR Admits US Staged Coup In Ukraine Colaborating With Neo-fascist/Nazi Elements (which is exactly what Russia has accused Kiev of)

U.S. and European leaders blundered in attempting to turn Ukraine into a Western stronghold on Russia’s border.

The United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West.
 
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Ukraine's laws, particularly the law honoring a number of "nationalist" organizations are immoral, intellectually inaccurate, and self-destructive. They confer a sense of legitimacy on Russia's claims of fascism in Ukraine.

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum issued statement expressing 'deep concern' about that development, as the article notes. The full statement can be found at: Statement on Ukrainian Legislation on Historical Research and Debate — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
 
I'm sorry, the last point.

In the years following the break up of the Soviet Union, western Ukrainians demanded that the entire leadership of the UPA and some related groups be given official status as "Heros of Ukraine" (similar to the old Soviet designator of "Hero of the USSR"). They also wanted UPA fighters to receive official veterans pensions.

The Ukranians parliament then recognized all UPA leaders as official "Heros of Ukraine". But... after Polish protests, the individual leaders who either led attacks on Polish civilians, or as one in particular, made Rwanda style "cockroaches" calls for violence against Poles during underground radio broadcasts were removed from the list of officially recognized Ukrainian Heros.

UPA fighter, however, now receive veterans pensions unless they as individuals were known to have committed war crimes. The same policy applies to Soviet Army and Soviet bueracrat pensions.
 
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In the years following the break up of the Soviet Union, western Ukrainians demanded that the entire leadership of the UPA and some related groups be given official status as "Heros of Ukraine" (similar to the old Soviet designator of "Hero of the USSR"). They also wanted UPA fighters to receive official veterans pensions.

The Ukranians parliament then recognized all UPA leaders as official "Heros of Ukraine". But... after Polish protests, the individual leaders who either led attacks on Polish civilians, or as one in particular, made Rwanda style "cockroaches" calls for violence against Poles during underground radio broadcasts were removed from the list of officially recognized Ukrainian Heros.

Ok, I see. How does that square with the op then?
 
Ok, I see. How does that square with the op then?

It shows that Ukriane is not, in fact, honoring (after some pressure) individuals known to have either committed or encouraged war crimes during WWII.
 
The Ukrainians are essentially no different than many populations in Central Europe. I run into people all the time that are somewhere between moderately and aggressively racist and think that this or that group had/has it coming and good riddance, though, many of them are more vague about what they have coming.
 
It shows that Ukriane is not, in fact, honoring (after some pressure) individuals known to have either committed or encouraged war crimes during WWII.

Oh ok, the Israeli newspaper is wrong.
 
You wont find any Nazi apologists here. Such people are banned very quickly.

Interesting. While I am certianly glad not to have them around what rule are they violating? I read the rules and didn't see anything specific to the Nazis. Maybe I am missing it.
 
Interesting. While I am certianly glad not to have them around what rule are they violating? I read the rules and didn't see anything specific to the Nazis. Maybe I am missing it.

I would recommend reviewing the posts of the purported legions of Neo Nazis on this board for violations of the following rule, then inform the moderators:

Hate Messages - Hate Messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as a comment using one of the following towards a “protected group” or an individual based on their identity in a “protected group” in an extreme manner:

A) The support for or a call for violence.
B) The suggestion of removal of essential civil liberties.
C) Claims of severe dehumanization.
D) Claims of illegal behavior across the entire group.


Oh ok, the Israeli newspaper is wrong.
No, I am wrong. The Israeli newspaper never claimed Ukriane was honoring individuals known to have committed war crimes. Rather, the article states that Ukriane is honoring groups, of which some of whose members were known to have commited war crimes. This is true.
 
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Ukraine's laws, particularly the law honoring a number of "nationalist" organizations are immoral, intellectually inaccurate, and self-destructive. They confer a sense of legitimacy on Russia's claims of fascism in Ukraine.

Ukraine has attempted to moderate its approach by stating that individuals known to have either committed or propagandized war crimes can no longer be officially recognized as national heros.

The Russian concern about facism in Ukraine- and it does exist, is also ironic as a variety of far right Russian groups are used as recruitment pools for pro Russian batallions. Likewise, it was a pro Russian irregular commander, not a a Ukrainian one, who briefly enacted anti Jewish policies.
 
My thoughts are that this is further proof that us getting involved is a terrible idea. Ukraine is a cesspool of corruption and a financial black hole. The Russians are "the good guys" by comparison.

so in your mind creating a civil war and killing thousands = good guys?
 
so in your mind creating a civil war and killing thousands = good guys?
Did you come to this conclusion after reading "Interpretations of Current Events for the Simple Minded" or something?
 
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