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Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

Well their interests are superior to China's as the islands are closer to the respective nations claiming them and those islands have always been considered parts of those nations. Have you ever actually looked at a map of the South China Sea? It would be like Cuba claiming the entirety of the Gulf of Mexico and Key West. China only started to claim the islands once oil was found around them.

No, they are not superior. And this is not nearly as cut and dry as you depict. Look, the first country to ever file a legal claim to the islands was the British empire, and surely the Spratly's and Paracel's were closer to China then Britain. The Chinese formally complained when the Germans came to survey them in 1883.

The boundary convention between the Chinese and the Vietnamese that was signed by France and China at the conclusion of the Sino-French war recognized China as the rightful owners of the islands. Indeed China placed flags and markers on the islands in 1902 and a 1755 Archeological survey discovered Chinese pottery and coins on the islands, that may have been the result of intentional presence or perhaps from Chinese junks shipwrecked there.

But one thing is certain, China's claims are no less legitimate than the others that you name, and as such, there's very little logic in the US risking a war with that power over such questionable conditions.
 
I think China knows better to push the US too far. We are most of their economy and many American corporations are providing jobs for their people. They will not bite the hand that feeds them.

That goes both ways you know.
 
I understand your position, just trying to illustrate that military tension over these islands is nothing new.

I doubt that us having a weaker President or a stronger President has all that much impact on China's decisions over the years for a continual increase in military readiness and showing of might over this area of the South China Sea. China has been running patrol boats in and out of these waters for decades now. Granted, things got much worse once Japan held a Chinese fishing boat Captain for several weeks back in 2010. The activity between the Chinese and Taiwanese governments goes way back as well. Once China fighters entered Japan's airspace in 2012 that pretty much signaled the end of a peaceful resolution between all these nations.

My point is, it would be foolish to blame the escalation on Obama even if there was additional increases in military activity during his time.

The other key issue is what is it you expect any President to do about this dispute? Strong rhetoric has a tendency to not really impact China decision making, nor has it really quelled their military and/or economic ambitions for this region. I think you overestimate the hand we have in our relations with China anyway. They have plenty of cards in their hand given that they buy our debt to the point that we rely on it, *and* they build a significant amount of our products to the point of enjoying a trade surplus with us.

A strong POTUS stands with our allies and commits to stop the aggressive actions of other nations. Historically China has not been an invasive nation, this is a change. They were watching for our response, just as they were watching how we responded to Russia.

As for our debt held by the Chinese, its a two way street-they need us as well. Its a matter of not making the orange worth the squeeze.
 
China will never go too far..regardless of who is POTUS. They need us...and we have a large debt with them as well. They invested those funds in America because they knew it was a good investment. Our corporations are benefiting greatly there too. Our economies are entwined and China is enjoying the fruits of Capitalism right now and will not upset the apple cart. We will turn a blind eye when or if China takes over those small countries as long as they are not looking to do it here. The GOP would never think of getting aggressive with China...their lobbyist or buddies are getting wealthy by our friendship with China. If the US were to take on N. Korea right now...I would bet that China sides with the US simply because we are a wealthier country and they would like to be a wealthy country too.

As far as Putin...he is a Europe problem. We survived the cold war and nothing happened under the Soviet Union. He is a maniac...but he doesn't want his country torn up either. There are 28 countries in the EU who have stellar military's. They can stand up to Russia without US intervention.

As far as the ME...I think they will eventually destroy themselves and no one will miss them if it happens. I agree with the POTUS on limited involvement over there..it is just not worth our resources. We gave them a opportunity when we liberated Iraq and they blew it. We pulled out too early in Iraq but everyone wanted those soldiers home..including their families. Ten years was enough. There is nothing left for us to do there.
 
No, they are not superior. And this is not nearly as cut and dry as you depict. Look, the first country to ever file a legal claim to the islands was the British empire, and surely the Spratly's and Paracel's were closer to China then Britain. The Chinese formally complained when the Germans came to survey them in 1883.

The boundary convention between the Chinese and the Vietnamese that was signed by France and China at the conclusion of the Sino-French war recognized China as the rightful owners of the islands. Indeed China placed flags and markers on the islands in 1902 and a 1755 Archeological survey discovered Chinese pottery and coins on the islands, that may have been the result of intentional presence or perhaps from Chinese junks shipwrecked there.

But one thing is certain, China's claims are no less legitimate than the others that you name, and as such, there's very little logic in the US risking a war with that power over such questionable conditions.

The lines China drew are arbitrary and transparently aimed at natural resources. Its much closer to other nations, and the claims they hold are also valid.

The difference is that only China plopped down and is now building up a significant and more permanent military presence.

Unless you can demonstrate why China has a MORE valid claim to the land-what they are doing is a provocation.
 
The lines China drew are arbitrary and transparently aimed at natural resources. Its much closer to other nations, and the claims they hold are also valid.

The difference is that only China plopped down and is now building up a significant and more permanent military presence.

Unless you can demonstrate why China has a MORE valid claim to the land-what they are doing is a provocation.

I demonstrated that China has at least as good, and some, including the Chinese of course, would argue better claims than others. To choose sides in a fight where both parties can hold up legitimate claims is stupid. And the lines aren't arbitrary, and they weren't drawn just by China. Why don't you read what you actually quoted.
 
China will never go too far..regardless of who is POTUS. They need us...and we have a large debt with them as well. They invested those funds in America because they knew it was a good investment. Our corporations are benefiting greatly there too. Our economies are entwined and China is enjoying the fruits of Capitalism right now and will not upset the apple cart. We will turn a blind eye when or if China takes over those small countries as long as they are not looking to do it here. The GOP would never think of getting aggressive with China...their lobbyist or buddies are getting wealthy by our friendship with China. If the US were to take on N. Korea right now...I would bet that China sides with the US simply because we are a wealthier country and they would like to be a wealthy country too.

As far as Putin...he is a Europe problem. We survived the cold war and nothing happened under the Soviet Union. He is a maniac...but he doesn't want his country torn up either. There are 28 countries in the EU who have stellar military's. They can stand up to Russia without US intervention.

As far as the ME...I think they will eventually destroy themselves and no one will miss them if it happens. I agree with the POTUS on limited involvement over there..it is just not worth our resources. We gave them a opportunity when we liberated Iraq and they blew it. We pulled out too early in Iraq but everyone wanted those soldiers home..including their families. Ten years was enough. There is nothing left for us to do there.

China will go as far as it can-as far as it feels is in its best interests. This is in part determined by what the response will be. The US response is based on our interests, and the interests of our allies.

The problem with saying Russia is europes problem, or China is asias problem is that we also live in a global society, and must interact with other nations-and history has shown that not stopping aggression early only invites more of it.
 
I demonstrated that China has at least as good, and some, including the Chinese of course, would argue better claims than others. To choose sides in a fight where both parties can hold up legitimate claims is stupid. And the lines aren't arbitrary, and they weren't drawn just by China. Why don't you read what you actually quoted.

The lines are quite arbitrary, can you demonstrate what standing they have that makes them more valid?

EVERY nation that has claimed the islands would argue its claims are better. :lol:

Unless you can show how China's is somehow better, or why China should be allowed them-I dont see how this invasive action is warranted.

After that, kindly show how rewarding such actions wont lead to more.
 
China will go as far as it can-as far as it feels is in its best interests. This is in part determined by what the response will be. The US response is based on our interests, and the interests of our allies.

The problem with saying Russia is europes problem, or China is asias problem is that we also live in a global society, and must interact with other nations-and history has shown that not stopping aggression early only invites more of it.

Russia is definitely Europe's problem...they need to spend a little money on their military and start working with the US to manage some of this conflict. We need to pick our battles wisely...simply because our economy is not that strong. Are you suggesting military action against China? Think about the American companies that are over there...Ford Motor Co, GM, etc....do you really see a mostly GOP congress blessing something like that? If China, lopped a missle at one our our spy planes and we sanctioned them...banned Chinese products in the US...do you think they would survive long? Americans are spenders and buy a lot of stuff. The US is a giant country, compared to most and we have the best military in the world...I think posturing our strength makes us appear like bullies. We need to repair that image if we want to move on with our global economies.
 
The lines are quite arbitrary, can you demonstrate what standing they have that makes them more valid?

EVERY nation that has claimed the islands would argue its claims are better. :lol:

Unless you can show how China's is somehow better, or why China should be allowed them-I dont see how this invasive action is warranted.

After that, kindly show how rewarding such actions wont lead to more.

That's the whole point. Can anyone other than China point to a treaty that recognizes them as the rightful owners, hmm? They all have claims, but only China's come the closest to a title. If you want the US to go to war with China against those odds, then let's hope somebody keeps you far away from any power.
 
Russia is definitely Europe's problem...they need to spend a little money on their military and start working with the US to manage some of this conflict. We need to pick our battles wisely...simply because our economy is not that strong. Are you suggesting military action against China? Think about the American companies that are over there...Ford Motor Co, GM, etc....do you really see a mostly GOP congress blessing something like that? If China, lopped a missle at one our our spy planes and we sanctioned them...banned Chinese products in the US...do you think they would survive long? Americans are spenders and buy a lot of stuff. The US is a giant country, compared to most and we have the best military in the world...I think posturing our strength makes us appear like bullies. We need to repair that image if we want to move on with our global economies.

The Russians need to work with the US against Chinese interests, lol. USFP is driving Russia and China closer together.
 
Russia is definitely Europe's problem...they need to spend a little money on their military and start working with the US to manage some of this conflict. We need to pick our battles wisely...simply because our economy is not that strong. Are you suggesting military action against China? Think about the American companies that are over there...Ford Motor Co, GM, etc....do you really see a mostly GOP congress blessing something like that? If China, lopped a missle at one our our spy planes and we sanctioned them...banned Chinese products in the US...do you think they would survive long? Americans are spenders and buy a lot of stuff. The US is a giant country, compared to most and we have the best military in the world...I think posturing our strength makes us appear like bullies. We need to repair that image if we want to move on with our global economies.

So China invades territory that does not belong to it-and any response would be bullying?

The options are not simply do nothing or total war. We just need to make the juice not worth the squeeze.
 
So he is doing exactly what you want him to do, and criticized him for not doing?

Can you show how Obama's "pivot" has been successful in either the ME or the rest of Asia?

Call the spin whatever you'd like, including a "pivot"-if it doesn't deliver he's going to be criticized.
 
So China invades territory that does not belong to it-and any response would be bullying?

The options are not simply do nothing or total war. We just need to make the juice not worth the squeeze.

Why would the US care if China invades a territory on the other side of the globe? Isn't there anyone else to help those countries? What do you suggest we do?
 
Why would the US care if China invades a territory on the other side of the globe? Isn't there anyone else to help those countries? What do you suggest we do?

The US is the global police, hadn't you heard?
 
Why would the US care if China invades a territory on the other side of the globe? Isn't there anyone else to help those countries? What do you suggest we do?

The US (not under Obama) would not allow such unchecked aggression. I care because it sets a bad precedence (im aware many dont care about the principle) and its negative effects on our allies.
 
This sort of run-in in the South China Sea is not new and has happened before. It will continue to happen, probably more frequently, but doesn't need to lead to a confrontation.
 
:sigh:

Almost eight hours and 45 replies earlier.


Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane

Above the South China Sea (CNN)The Chinese navy issued warnings eight times as a U.S. surveillance plane on Wednesday swooped over islands that Beijing is using to extend its zone of influence. The series of man-made islands and the massive Chinese military build-up on them have alarmed the Pentagon, which is carrying out the surveillance flights in order to make clear the U.S. does not recognize China's territorial claims. The militarized islands have also alarmed America's regional allies.

A CNN team was given exclusive access to join in the surveillance flights over the contested waters, which the Pentagon allowed for the first time in order to raise awareness about the challenge posed by the islands and the growing U.S. response. CNN was aboard the P8-A Poseidon, America's most advanced surveillance and submarine-hunting aircraft, and quickly learned that the Chinese are themselves displeased by the U.S. pushback.

"This is the Chinese navy ... This is the Chinese navy ... Please go away ... to avoid misunderstanding," a voice in English crackled through the radio of the aircraft in which CNN was present.



Exclusive: China warns U.S. surveillance plane - CNNPolitics.com


The spratly islands are claimed by at least 5 nations, China is clearly committed exerting its influence in the region. IIRC there are large oil deposits nearby.

I also think they know Obama is a weak POTUS, and that this is the time to establish a presence in the region.
 
We have seen it coming s have our allies in the region. We should have helped them do exactly what China is doing. We haven't so far and we are slowly losing credibility as an ally. This will continue as we do not lead.

You have to play a different ball game when you are dealing with China and Russia. Hawkish behaviour won't work. They will resist all the more. Compromise with them or go to war.
 
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