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Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

Do you beat up strawmen that much?

Have you anything showing that the fact that a nation has a significant minimum wage is affected at all by that nation's currency not being the fiat currency around the world?

Didn't think so.

Hah, you made a strawman!

My point was that the US economy is better than all three of your examples so using them as an example of how awesome an economy you can have with a high minimum wage is pretty silly.

Also, adjusting for currencies, I get the following

Minimum Wage in New Zealand: $7.35 US

Minimum Wage in Canada: $9.00 US

Minimum Wage Australia: $13.34 US

Cost of Living Adjustment:

Effective minimum Wage in New Zealand: $6.02

Effective Minimum Wage in Canada: $8.42

Effective Minimum wage in Australia: $10.27

So only Australia has a significantly higher minimum wage, but that wage only applies to adults, and I would like to see how many "adults" do menial labor in Australia.
 
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Hah, you made a strawman!

My point was that the US economy is better than all three of your examples so using them as an example of how awesome an economy you can have with a high minimum wage is pretty silly.

Let me get this straight - you include an obvious strawman that has ZERO effect on the main issue, I point out your strawman and ask you if you have anything to prove your contention...

...and you're claiming I'm making a strawman by pointing out your strawman and asking you to back it up????

I suggest you go learn a bit about what a strawman argument is.
 
Let me get this straight - you include an obvious strawman that has ZERO effect on the main issue, I point out your strawman and ask you if you have anything to prove your contention...

...and you're claiming I'm making a strawman by pointing out your strawman and asking you to back it up????

I suggest you go learn a bit about what a strawman argument is.

No, IO am saying you are making a straw man argument by arguing against an a statement I never made.

My point is that the US economy is so strong historically that the US dollar is the fiat currency of the world.
 
Try backing up what you said with references. And I do so encourage you to try to use Seattle as an example...because I'll slap that one down very easily.

here is at least one in seattle and many more are claiming the same thing.
Owner of pizza shop says new Seattle minimum wage law is forcing her to close | Q13 FOX News

there are at least 2 reported book stores one in san fran the other in LA that are closing up because they can't afford the pay increases.
I am sure more will follow suit as the pay begins to creep up however it is still early.

already businesses are starting to raise prices, cut hours and people.

amazing isn't it.

of course all of this is in the news if you read something other than media matters.
 
Hah, you made a strawman!

My point was that the US economy is better than all three of your examples so using them as an example of how awesome an economy you can have with a high minimum wage is pretty silly.

Also, adjusting for currencies, I get the following

Minimum Wage in New Zealand: $7.35 US

Minimum Wage in Canada: $9.00 US

Minimum Wage Australia: $13.34 US

Cost of Living Adjustment:

Effective minimum Wage in New Zealand: $6.02

Effective Minimum Wage in Canada: $8.42

Effective Minimum wage in Australia: $10.27

So only Australia has a significantly higher minimum wage, but that wage only applies to adults, and I would like to see how many "adults" do menial labor in Australia.

don't use facts when appeals to emotion are so much better.
 
Do you beat up strawmen that much?

Have you anything showing that the fact that a nation has a significant minimum wage is affected at all by that nation's currency not being the fiat currency around the world?

Didn't think so.

I hate to tell you Glen, but that wasn't a strawman argument.
 
You have made some solid points! And I agree with most of it,, Seattle , Frisco, New York, all Liberal utopias shooting for the 15 movement, are all very well educated cities, with strong economies, moral of the story live in a Blue city and you will find yourself in a much more educated productive environment..

Repugs, and Cons, refuse to acknowledge for whatever reason known only to themselves, is that the 15:hour gig, will result in less turnover, a higher morale which leads to more productivity, and the more folks make the more they will pump into the local economy, and workers won't need welfare to subsidize their poor **** wages, which cost taxpayers more, and a happy employee is more motivated and everybody wins..


how much more productivity can a cashier have?

or the janitor?

i agree that happy, and motivated workers are what every employer wants

but each job is only worth x dollars.....

if you artificially inflate the value of the lower jobs, then those above those will also be inflated

so the a/p clerk that was making $ 16 will now want 18-20 to stay in her "happy place"

so what are you accomplishing in the long run?

a. hurting those on fixed incomes....some inflation will happen as pay jumps for jobs
b. encouraging employers to seek automation....why pay $ 15 for that job, when i can buy a machine for 30k.....and recoup my money in a year, maybe two
c. helping union employees.....most contracts are tied to the MW of the state where the contract was done
d. reducing the number of jobs available.....through attrition and automation, jobs will be eliminated

sounds like a lose/lose/lose to me

but what do i know....i have only been running companies for 20+ years
 
here is at least one in seattle and many more are claiming the same thing.
Owner of pizza shop says new Seattle minimum wage law is forcing her to close | Q13 FOX News

there are at least 2 reported book stores one in san fran the other in LA that are closing up because they can't afford the pay increases.
I am sure more will follow suit as the pay begins to creep up however it is still early.

already businesses are starting to raise prices, cut hours and people.

amazing isn't it.

of course all of this is in the news if you read something other than media matters.

You really should do something different and look to see if you're getting the whole story. That pizza shop that closed didn't do so because of the minimum wage hike, but because of competition from the several other pizza joints nearby who are still open and doing well, thank you very much.

Every year there's lots of restaurants that close, and lots that open. This year is no different - the local restaurateurs say they'll have to raise prices about 5% to cover the raise. Think about that - by raising their prices five lousy percent, their workers can get a freaking 30% wage hike! And as this Harvard study shows with the real-world comparison of Costco and Sam's Club, paying workers a living wage can actually save the company money!

Sorry, but that tells me that the economic sky is NOT falling, that we're doing fine, thank you very much. But you really should lay off that Fox News Kool-Aid....
 
No, IO am saying you are making a straw man argument by arguing against an a statement I never made.

My point is that the US economy is so strong historically that the US dollar is the fiat currency of the world.

And that has precisely squat to do with whether a nation does or does not have a significant minimum wage, and how that minimum wage affects the economy as a whole. You made a strawman, I called you on it, and you didn't like being called on it.
 
I hate to tell you Glen, but that wasn't a strawman argument.

Okay, then help him out by explaining how having the fiat currency affects or is directly affected by that nation having a minimum wage. If you can't make a cogent argument to support that, then his argument was indeed a strawman.
 
What a wonderful, CLASSIC example of cherry-picking! Out of sixteen nations (not counting the US), you picked the highest three (all of which still have lower percentages than the US) and tried to claim that this disproves what I told you.

Not only that, but you use that chart to claim "Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Sweden, and a number of other countries have ~20% or higher population of single parents". Canada, the UK, and Ireland do have percentages above 20% (none of which are as high as the US' percentage, of course), but you wrote that in a way to make it seem that it wasn't just those three, but even more. That's a very shallow attempt at skewing, guy - and it won't work.

Look at that chart again, guy - there at the bottom. If the US is not counted, the AVERAGE and MEDIAN percentages of single parents in ALL those nations is 16%!!!! Whereas ours is 27%. That in and of itself shows that YES, generally speaking, the higher the standard of living, the lower the percentage of single parenthood.

Thank you for helping me prove my case.

You're not answering my question. What a wonderful example of dodging and condescension, guy!

It doesn't matter that we outpace them, there isn't a huge gap between Ireland, Canada and the U.K. and the United States. A 3%-5% change for a 50%-100% increase in minimum wage and introduction of more social safety nets isn't really helping your case. I will ask again:

Why does the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, etc. have such high numbers of single-parent households, guy? They have substantial safety nets and relatively high minimum wages.

They have the high standard of living you proclaim would create stable families, yet are close to the United States in terms of single-parent households. You cannot just ignore them as if they don't matter - that's cherry picking.
 
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depends on what that person is doing, and yes they can if that person is earning more than 6000 an hour.
of course the job of a ceo is way harder and more complicated than that of a dish washer.

But no less required. In fact, how long will a restaurant run WITHOUT a dishwasher? Longer than it would without a CEO. That's a fact.
 
You really should do something different and look to see if you're getting the whole story. That pizza shop that closed didn't do so because of the minimum wage hike, but because of competition from the several other pizza joints nearby who are still open and doing well, thank you very much.

Every year there's lots of restaurants that close, and lots that open. This year is no different - the local restaurateurs say they'll have to raise prices about 5% to cover the raise. Think about that - by raising their prices five lousy percent, their workers can get a freaking 30% wage hike! And as this Harvard study shows with the real-world comparison of Costco and Sam's Club, paying workers a living wage can actually save the company money!

Sorry, but that tells me that the economic sky is NOT falling, that we're doing fine, thank you very much. But you really should lay off that Fox News Kool-Aid....

how much more productivity can a cashier have?

or the janitor?

i agree that happy, and motivated workers are what every employer wants

but each job is only worth x dollars.....

if you artificially inflate the value of the lower jobs, then those above those will also be inflated

so the a/p clerk that was making $ 16 will now want 18-20 to stay in her "happy place"

so what are you accomplishing in the long run?

a. hurting those on fixed incomes....some inflation will happen as pay jumps for jobs
b. encouraging employers to seek automation....why pay $ 15 for that job, when i can buy a machine for 30k.....and recoup my money in a year, maybe two
c. helping union employees.....most contracts are tied to the MW of the state where the contract was done
d. reducing the number of jobs available.....through attrition and automation, jobs will be eliminated

sounds like a lose/lose/lose to me

but what do i know....i have only been running companies for 20+ years
Geez man your way out there, seriously a cashier is very productive, especially if you want your drawers to BALANCE, not to mention you have to have good people skills because you ate dealing with money, and emotions run high, it's harder than it looks, not to mention you have to keep your temper in check, and have sharp attention to detail..

Janitor seriously get real, next time somebody walks into the john of your business and walks out because someone took a dump on the floor you lose money, all of your workforce is productive and should be given respect for what they do .

You wanna pay lousy wages fine, your turnover rate is gonna sky rocket, and you will be counter productive, because you will spend all of tour time trying to find suckers to replace the guys who walked out on you, without notice of course..

Nobody has a damn thing to lose walking out on some cheesy crap job, especially when they can get more on welfare..
 
You really should do something different and look to see if you're getting the whole story. That pizza shop that closed didn't do so because of the minimum wage hike, but because of competition from the several other pizza joints nearby who are still open and doing well, thank you very much.

Every year there's lots of restaurants that close, and lots that open. This year is no different - the local restaurateurs say they'll have to raise prices about 5% to cover the raise. Think about that - by raising their prices five lousy percent, their workers can get a freaking 30% wage hike! And as this Harvard study shows with the real-world comparison of Costco and Sam's Club, paying workers a living wage can actually save the company money!

Sorry, but that tells me that the economic sky is NOT falling, that we're doing fine, thank you very much. But you really should lay off that Fox News Kool-Aid....

I think I will believe the store owner over some sketchy website I have never heard of.
again there are two different books stores also getting ready to close as well. those are just the ones we have heard about
I am sure more small business owners will follow as they cannot afford the pay increases.

you said find examples I found examples that shut down that minimum wage increases doesn't harm employee's or businesses.

yep and who says people will pay the 5% increase? they might but not as often as they use to.
it depends on the restaurant and whether they can increase it 5%.

again Costco and sam's club target different people with different scales the comparison is apples and oranges.

we will see what happens. I was in the outback the other day. other than having someone bring me my food a waitress was almost not needed with the ordering tablet at the table.
for fast food automated ordering machines will replace cashiers.

same thing in grocery stores. bag boys forget it.

Minimum wage hike killed jobs, hurt low-skilled workers: study - Washington Times

once again proven wrong. raising minimum wage hurts poor low skill no skill workers.

why a business can't justify paying someone 15 dollars an hour on a job that doesn't earn it.
 
But no less required. In fact, how long will a restaurant run WITHOUT a dishwasher? Longer than it would without a CEO. That's a fact.

that is why we have dishwashing machines. I will have someone else already working who isn't busy do it. pretty simple. I eliminate the need.
not really. with no one to pay the bills or pay the workers it would close quicker.
 
that is why we have dishwashing machines. I will have someone else already working who isn't busy do it. pretty simple. I eliminate the need.
not really. with no one to pay the bills or pay the workers it would close quicker.

No it wouldn't.

Washing dishes is essential EVERY DAY. Pay checks get cut on a weekly basis, sometimes every two weeks. Bills get piad per month.


So...no CEO means the place will still run for one week, minimum. No dishes being washed means the place gets shut down right after the first lunch rush.
 
Since you are unaware, the quote above comes from a 1998 Time Magazine article where he was asked to fast forward 100 years to 2098, and provide a thought provoking account of the past 100 years. He also "predicted" St. Petersberg will have more skyscrapers than NYC....

Surly you can do better than this.

Actually I was aware. :) I am also aware that that background, though interesting, has exactly zero impact on the purpose of using that quote, which was to demonstrate that even extremely intelligent people describing developments in their field will often prove vastly inferior to the accumulated abilities, knowledge, and ingenuity of thousands, millions, or tens of millions of less-well-informed individuals. Arguments that there will be no demand for low-skill labor in the future because one person or another cannot fathom a way to allocate that labor, therefore, are proceeding from a false assumption.
 
No it wouldn't.

Washing dishes is essential EVERY DAY. Pay checks get cut on a weekly basis, sometimes every two weeks. Bills get piad per month.


So...no CEO means the place will still run for one week, minimum. No dishes being washed means the place gets shut down right after the first lunch rush.

You really think people will work those weeks knowing that the guy who signs their checks is gone?

Can I also interest you in this bridge I am selling?
 
When this leads to even more financial hardships for LA, I can't wait to see what the left comes up with in order to blame it on Bush.

Just to point out, they may be snowing their own people on this. They want a big pat on the back for raising the minimum wage to $15, but it's in five years from now. It may be nothing. It might never happen, or we could have inflation to the point that a $15 minimum wage doesn't buy much more than the minimum wage buys now. Got to watch these lefties, they try to fool their own more than anyone else, that's how they get votes.
 
You really think people will work those weeks knowing that the guy who signs their checks is gone?

Can I also interest you in this bridge I am selling?

Since when is a missing CEO going to be ANNOUNCED?


I mean, if we're gonna just broadcast our missing functions, then how many customers are going to agree to eat at a place that advertises that it doesn't wash their dishes or utensils, lol?
 
208/240 3 Phase Hobart AM15VL Advansys Ventless High Temperature Dishwasher with Booster Heater

16k....automated.....now you need someone to load, and unload

i think the busboy can handle that

another job eliminated.....

And it would have been eliminated no matter HOW little the human dishwasher got paid. What's you're point?

Because you have dodged the real question of the post...

Dishes being washed is every bit as vital or more so, no matter WHO or WHAT is doing the washing, as the various tasks the CEO is doing.

You'll come back with a claim that, well, yeah, but the CEO's job can't be automated. To which I will tell you, a GOOD chunk of it can be, lol. At a restaurant, at least. Not all CEO's (owners) face the same tasks.
 
Good news for the fight against income inequality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/u...to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour.html?_r=0

The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.

Why not $20?
 
Actually I was aware. :) I am also aware that that background, though interesting, has exactly zero impact on the purpose of using that quote, which was to demonstrate that even extremely intelligent people describing developments in their field will often prove vastly inferior to the accumulated abilities, knowledge, and ingenuity of thousands, millions, or tens of millions of less-well-informed individuals. Arguments that there will be no demand for low-skill labor in the future because one person or another cannot fathom a way to allocate that labor, therefore, are proceeding from a false assumption.

I don't think anyone is saying NO DEMAND.



But 70% LESS demand?


Do you want to live in a world with even 25% unemployment, with our current economic system? I don't. I'll almost CERTAINLY make less money, and I REALLY like money.
 
Why not $20?

Because the SEIU has done some calculating and $15 achieves their goal, and with dues, allows the peons to keep a little bit of their earnings, and keep them dependent on the union for their futures. Why else would the SEIU be backing the $15/hr push at McDonalds?
 
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