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Los Angeles Raises Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour

And in return they will price themselves out of business. With less workers means less money flowing through the economy. It all comes full circle. If your business model relies on paying your employees inadequate wages in relation to cost of living, your business model sucks.

no they won't because there are always people that are above that will pay.
and with the reduced cost in overhead IE you don't have to pay automation checkouts and ordering system overtime and benefits.

they will actually increase their business.

no the business model doesn't suck. there is a price point that all businesses use and and what people are willing to pay.
if I sell 10 dollar burgers and people eat them up then I am doing well. where I was paying that cook 10 bucks an hour I know half to pay 15
he can only produce so many burgers an hour and it has to be more than it costs to pay him.

I am not eating the cost out of my profit no way. so he either makes more burgers or I raise my prices.
however the easier way to keep prices the same is to get rid of non-essential people.

how? I replace them with self order machines. I don't take cash. people just swipe their card or phone and it sends the order back to the kitchen.

if I save enough on that end I can bump someone else's pay but it will be hard to justify the cost.

so I won't price myself out of business. I fire people so I can keep costs the same.
those people can't find jobs because they don't have the skills to justify 15 dollar an hour pay.
 
Good news for the fight against income inequality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/u...to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour.html?_r=0

The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.

While I do like this, it doesn't mean anything if they don't do something to contain their illegal workers and sweatshops that undermine their workforce and their wages.
 
While I do like this, it doesn't mean anything if they don't do something to contain their illegal workers and sweatshops that undermine their workforce and their wages.

i have never understood the point about wanting to raise the minimum wage, but yet undercut the people on that lower end of the wage scale, by allowing illegals to enter the u.s. and work.

what it tells me is we have people who want the lower class vote and the hispanic vote....
 
i have never understood the point about wanting to raise the minimum wage, but yet undercut the people on that lower end of the wage scale, by allowing illegals to enter the u.s. and work.

Just let them come here to work legally. Just apply the minimum wage to them as well and tax them at a higher rate than citizens and have them paying into the social safety net programs. If you are an employer you will then be far more likely to hire the American citizen because you are assured they most likely are to have at least some formal education and the immigrant work force will be there to pick up any areas of work that citizens aren't at. All without undermining wages and creating a sub-society within our own country.

what it tells me is we have people who want the lower class vote and the hispanic vote....

I think you are putting on the blame the gubamint tin foil hat a bit too much on this. It's a matter of a society being addicted to having an underclass that they can exploit for their own gain.
 
Just let them come here to work legally. Just apply the minimum wage to them as well and tax them at a higher rate than citizens and have them paying into the social safety net programs. If you are an employer you will then be far more likely to hire the American citizen because you are assured they most likely are to have at least some formal education and the immigrant work force will be there to pick up any areas of work that citizens aren't at. All without undermining wages and creating a sub-society within our own country.

the u.s. would be stupid to have an open door policy on immigration, and we cannot let everyone come here who wants to work , because we would face millions of people.....and since we are not, legals are going to undercut legal workers wages.

on the surface it looks as if the people running LA are stupid, but they are not....they are praying on the low intelligence of the low scale worker, and that of the hispanic community to keep electing them.
 
the u.s. would be stupid to have an open door policy on immigration, and we cannot let everyone come here who wants to work , because we would face millions of people.....and since we are not, legals are going to undercut legal workers wages.

on the surface it looks as if the people running LA are stupid, but they are not....they are praying on the low intelligence of the low scale worker, and that of the hispanic community to keep electing them.

I think you are under the delusion that everyone wants to be here. They don't. They want to feed their families. I have no grudge on them for that. If they are subjected to our wage laws, employers will hire Americans for reasons I already stated. Then as the jobs aren't there for the immigrants because they can't compete as well with American workers, the immigration to here will dry up.
 
I lived in Seattle for 3 years, and didn't make that much, but I always paid my rent on time, put food on the table, and bought extras when needed, so you don't know dick about who can afford what, you make your bills, you wanna drive a 20 thousand dollar car, wear suits all the time, and shop , shop , shop, and live over your means of course you will have problems anywhere, you have to know how to budget..

Of course rent will be higher for a condo in New York city, then living in some cesspool toxic trailer park in Redneck Mississippi, because there ain't **** there, and no way to make real money, you get what you pay for in life, you turds on the right should know that..

Newsflash that's why they call it a living wage, you go where the money is, not some piece of **** poverty ridden red state where the median income is too low for even a rat to live on, Mississipp, Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana, all **** states where poverty is rampant..

Never mind. It appears you aren't interested in debate at all - only hurling invective. I don't think I'm going to regret putting you where you are going.


If anyone else doubts that minimum wage earners in large cities with high cost of living often live outside of city limits where the living is cheaper, feel free to go visit Los Angeles, San Fransisco, et. al.
 
I can't seem to post in the Loft, however, I will note that after going through the thread, it DOES seem promising. I know you balk at taxing capital gains, but doing so will eliminate one avenue for tax dodgers. I don't truly care TO tax capital gains, however, failure to do so will just result in avoidance by those that can afford to utilize it. I call that the Warren Buffet dodge.

:) Then you've misnamed it. The Warren Buffet dodge isn't to take his income in capital gains, it's to put his wealth in giant trusts to protect it from the very taxes that he then advocates raising, while selling financial products whose value goes up if nominal rates do.

Taxing capital gains is dumb, but, again, compromises can be made.

I will trust that the numbers work out, in terms of income vs spending trajectories. And it solves the issue of making more and bringing home less at certain pay scales, which I am currently dealing with. I get paid more than I did a year ago, and bring home less. Which has prompted me to simply put more into my 401K, lol.

Yup. The cliffs are amazingly destructive. It beggars belief how anyone could deliberately design a system that way.
 
I think you are under the delusion that everyone wants to be here. They don't. They want to feed their families. I have no grudge on them for that. If they are subjected to our wage laws, employers will hire Americans for reasons I already stated. Then as the jobs aren't there for the immigrants because they can't compete as well with American workers, the immigration to here will dry up.

sorry thats not right........as long as people can hire people under the table, wages will be undercut.

people are not wanting to pay $9 now and hire illegals, do you think they are going to want to pay $15.....

illegal immigration is not going to dry up, as long as the conditions in the counties of the world remain crappy.

i live in Arizona....and it is common for people to die everyday here, risking their life's to come here to get away from the poverty they live in south of our border

how does going from $9 to $15 solve the problems.....it doesn't
 
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Good news for the fight against income inequality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/u...to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour.html?_r=0

The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.

The left populist adoration of 1930s discredited bromides, such "commanding wages or prices", has put wishful thinking ahead of theory and experience; it was unsuccessful during the Nixon administration as it has been in every shoeless socialist third world country. And to the degree that a minimum wage is actually setting a labor price above the market wage (whatever that might be in LA in 2020), rest assured the laws of supply and demand, marginal costs/revenue, and product substitution do not disappear - it will have a panoply of effects, most of them being detrimental to the well being of employers, job seekers, and the most needy employees.

The love of minimum wage stems mainly from the hypocrisy of who desire to give away money to a favored class, but only because it is someone elses' expense. Such is especially attractive to the left, because it harms their favorite class enemy (the proprietor of a small business)...and nothing delights the "humane left" like "punishing those greedy business owners".

But for those moored to reality (and economics 101), rather than class-wage envy, its an extraordinarily bad idea. For example:

- It increases the cost of labor, which increases the input cost of production. Consequently, it lowers (rather than raises) the demand for labor in a labor market.
- It increases wage pressure for raises to other employees, who currently work at jobs in the business THAT are worth 15 dollars an hour and who expect to be paid more than the least skilled and experienced.
- It decreases supply of the product or service produced to the public, while also increasing the product/service prices.
- It reduces profit and profit margins, reducing investment (and incentive) to job expansion.
- It redistributes jobs from the less skilled or educated poor, to the better skilled/educated classes. IF business have to pay above market wages, they will be inclined to higher fewer young, unskilled, dropouts, and to replace them with the higher level educated workers.
- While it harms opportunity for entry level jobs for the young, it "freezes" job advancement by making jobs like dishwashing a "career" for older adults.

Empirical studies have confirmed the unemployment and other effects; including reduced training, price inflation, reduced job opportunity, while having no measurable effect on the poverty rate.

But hey, who can resist ordering the person who owns a little business pay for your effusive generosity?
 
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sorry thats not right........as long as people can hire people under the table, wages will be undercut.

THAT's WHAT I'M SAYING. Allow them to work here under a work visa ABOVE the table.

people are not wanting to pay $9 now and hire illegals, do you think they are going to want to pay $15.....

illegal immigration is not going to dry up, as long as the conditions in the counties of the world remain crappy.

i live in Arizona....and it is common for people to die everyday here, risking their life's to come here to get away from the poverty they live in south of our border

I lived in AZ for over a decade and are aware of immigrant's treacherous journeys to America. It's under the promise of loads of under the table jobs. A promise that businesses deliver. Start jailing those businesses hiring them under the table, dole out work visas so they work ABOVE the table, tax them and make them compete fairly with American workers at our wages.

I swear you aren't reading my posts at all and are just posting pre-written statements and they don't even address what I'm saying.
 
Ah, once again the left is boasting that they know better than the market, and can force the market to behave as they see fit. The market is undefeated against morons and geniuses alike. I'm betting on the market.
 
Ah, once again the left is boasting that they know better than the market, and can force the market to behave as they see fit. The market is undefeated against morons and geniuses alike. I'm betting on the market.

Let me clear something up for you. ALL markets have rules that establish and run them.
 
That you have no idea what a market is and how it is established or works.

Jeez, you are like 0 for 4 here in the last few minutes. Come back when you are able to put together a coherent argument. Really, markets have rules??? Well, let's just get you right into the Nobel Prize competition for that one.
 
Then why is Unemployment in Seattle only 4% home of the highest minimum wage in the USA???

Boeing, Microsoft, Alaska Airlines, Costco, Amazon, Starbucks, Tmobile, Seattle Seahawks, all economic powerhouses, I don't see them packing up and leaving, they are thriving I know I lived there, I don't see jack **** in comparison in the Red states..

The ones that ARE NOT GETTING IT are the retarded red states that own the most poverty in the USA, where welfare is rampant you don't believe me google it simpleton..

You wanna play the numbers game with me FINE, TexASS, still tops the census list of highest uninsured rates in the country, with nearly 30% of the folks there without help when they get sick, which is only a matter of time, the reason I bring up TexASS is because it's a right wingers wet dream..

Oh and BTW THE LAST TIME Washington had a Repuke Governor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy back in 1979!!!!!

What the **** good does it do to have a job if you have no way to help yourself if you get sick??:lamo

What's funny is that in your hurry to prove your partisanship not only did you bring up businesses that are probably some of the very least effected by minimum wage, an NFL team really give me a break, but you also overlook the fact that Seattle is a rather expensive place to live and there is a reason why tons of folks commute from Tocoma and surrounding areas. Also you leave out all the debt trouble WA has been in the last few years , one of the highest in the nation. And on top of all that the very first company you listed to prove you point has been threatining to move more and more as of late and have in fact opened plants in other states. Maybe if you could take you partisan blinders off and lose a bit of your hate for folks who don't happen to agree with you, you might not look so silly when you post your rants.
 
Good news for the fight against income inequality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/u...to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour.html?_r=0

The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.

When this leads to even more financial hardships for LA, I can't wait to see what the left comes up with in order to blame it on Bush.
 
Good news for the fight against income inequality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/u...to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour.html?_r=0

The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.

Cool, now let's watch this either get overturned, or watch businesses flood the exits to leave Los Angeles.

Aside from a port and some oil we're not allowed to drill, LA doesn't have any intrinsic value that would keep businesses rooted there
 
Good news for the fight against income inequality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/u...to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour.html?_r=0

The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 from the current $9 an hour, in what is perhaps the most significant victory so far in the national push to raise the minimum wage. The increase — which the Los Angeles City Council passed in a 14-1 vote — comes as workers across the country are rallying for higher wages, and several large companies, including Facebook and Walmart, have moved to raise their lowest wages. Several other cities, including San Francisco, Seattle and Oakland, Calif., have already approved increases, and dozens more are considering doing the same. In 2014, a number of Republican-leaning states like Alaska and South Dakota also raised their state-level minimum wage by referendum. The impact is likely to be particularly strong in Los Angeles, where, according to some estimates, more than 40 percent of the city’s work force earns less than $15 an hour.
Unless the rest of California goes along with this it will be a futile effort.It will just cause companies to move outside of L.A,.Or since California metaphorically sucks the testicles of pro-illegals and the traitorous scumbags who hire this will encourage more scumbags to hire illegals instead of paying the 15 dollar an hour wage.
 
Not everyone in the LA Basin is as insane as its politicians. David Neumark, UC Irvine labor economist, regarded as the most prolific researcher in labor economics, TRIES to explain his findings to the City nitwits:

Why market forces will overwhelm a higher minimum wage - LA Times

That's a very informative article, but one that won't be received very well by the left. Here are a some of the most significant passages:

Simply requiring employers to pay $15 won't provide much ballast against these market forces. In fact, data indicate that minimum wages are ineffective at delivering benefits to poor or low-income families, and that many of the benefits flow to higher-income families. That's because minimum wages target low wages rather than low family incomes. And many minimum-wage workers are not poor or even in low-income families; nearly a quarter are teenagers who will eventually find better-paid jobs. Moreover, most poor families have no workers at all.

As a result, for every $5 in higher wages that a higher minimum imposes on employers, only about $1 goes to poor families, whereas roughly twice as much goes to families with incomes above the median....

snip

Based on my research, I think it is likely that a $15 minimum wage in Los Angeles will lead some teenagers currently focused on their education to take part-time jobs at the new, higher minimum, and displace low-skilled workers from the jobs they now hold. That seems like a bad outcome.

snip

The most comprehensive survey of minimum wage studies, which I conducted with William Wascher of the Federal Reserve System, found that two-thirds of studies point to negative employment effects, as do over 80% of the more credible studies.

Anyway, thanks for the link.
 
Good for LA!!, it's about time cities are FINALLY getting it!!

Notice how it's only the Blue states that are raising poverty wages??

And I don't wanna hear any BS about how it is a job killer, Seattle has the country's highest minimum wage and it's unemployment rate is only 4%, which is lower than Texas, Georgia and Mississippi all Red right to work states..

Right to work= modern slavery..

'According to CBO’s central estimate, implementing the
$10.10 option would reduce employment by roughly
500,000 workers in the second half of 2016, relative to
what would happen under current law."


Page 9

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/44995
 
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Counter point...what will dems say when increases to minimum wage don't result in economic paradise?

I believe that a living wage is a necessary, but not sufficient, requisite for economic justice. Livable neighborhoods, reductions in food deserts, better transportation networks, better support for public schools, etc. are also things that I believe are necessary. A living wage is just one piece, but one important piece.

BTW, I'd like to address Kevin's post in its own right. It is a challenge to a liberal talking point that is actually rational, reasonable, and free from snide comments--truly a rare find around here. Well done.

Libertarians and conservatives, please refer to this example of how you're supposed to do it.

Inb4 I get examples of how you're NOT supposed to do it.
 
Let me clear something up for you. ALL markets have rules that establish and run them.

yep your right and those rules are fluid with market changes.
one of those rules is as you raise the floor so do the several things.

it raises the cost to do business.
which means businesses have to increase revenue. there are only 3 ways they can do this.

1. let it eat their profit. (not going to happen)
2. Increase prices (can only increase it so much before people won't buy it)
3. Replace staff with more automation or fire people and work less hours.

well there is a 4th option.
hire more people working 20 hours a week which is about the same they would make working 40 hours now.

the next problem you have is called scale in pay.

if the cashier is making 15 an hour then the supervisor who is making a few dollars more is going to want a raise.
the IT guys is going to want a raise everyone is going to want a raise above what the lowest guy on the pole got.

it is called economy of scale. so now you have caused massive inflation as prices have to go up in order to pay for it all.
you also have priced some people out of a job.

I no longer hire no skilled workers. the training costs are just to much to bare.
basically you eliminate jobs for people that need them the most.

you lessen the ability for them to enter the job market.
 
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