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White House Promises to Bomb Ramadi Until City Retaken From ISIS

fmw said:
I think imperialism is a poor word for it. We aren't trying to annex anything. We're just playing planetary police force again. We need to stop it and take care of the homeland. I like the idea of the islamists killing each other. We should leave them alone and let them proceed.
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I agree with you. It's folks that think that imperialism always means annexation (though we certainly have that in our history) when in fact if you can force your will (influence) upon another nation either diplomatically or militarily, you've managed imperialism.
 
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Montecresto said:
I agree with you. It's folks that think that imperialism always means annexation (though we certainly have that in our history) when in fact if you can force your will (influence) upon another nation either diplomatically or militarily, you've managed imperialism.
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That pretty much includes every country in the history of the world, making the term rather meaningless.
 
Montecresto said:
To the bolded. Lol, and what did that get them.

On the Democracy Index, Iraq ranks poorly. Of the 167 countries ranked for 2013, Iraq was classified as a “hybrid regime” (between a “flawed democracy” and an “authoritarian regime”) and came in at a ranking of 113. In 2013, according to Transparency International, Iraq ranked among the eight most corrupt nations and territories in the world*
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Far better than what they have now which is basically the consequence of incompetent American foreign policy and idiot American voters.
 
Montecresto said:
I agree with you. It's folks that think that imperialism always means annexation (though we certainly have that in our history) when in fact if you can force your will (influence) upon another nation either diplomatically or militarily, you've managed imperialism.
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We haven't forced our will anywhere in the middle east. That's pretty obvious. What Russia and ISIS are doing currently would fit the definition of imperialism, I think.
 
Grant said:
That pretty much includes every country in the history of the world, making the term rather meaningless.
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That pretty much indicates you need to study more.
 
Fenton said:
Far better than what they have now which is basically the consequence of incompetent American foreign policy and idiot American voters.
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Iraq is a failed state on account of US interference for a dozen years now.
 
fmw said:
We haven't forced our will anywhere in the middle east. That's pretty obvious. What Russia and ISIS are doing currently would fit the definition of imperialism, I think.
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That's laughable. Perhaps your being facetious.
 
Fenton said:
Far better than what they have now which is basically the consequence of incompetent American foreign policy and idiot American voters.
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It depends on which sect you belong to. We basically exchanged one genocidal sect for another and in doing so made Iran the strongest nation in the region.
 
fmw said:
Nope. Enjoy the laugh.
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Ok. So......removing Saddam Hussein, sanctions on Iran, predator drone attacks in Pakistan and Yemen, puppet governments in Iraq and Afghanistan, supporting MB against Mubarak, removing Gaddafi, supporting the Syrian rebels against Assad................ None of this equates to forcing our will/influence to you? I still think you're playing.
 
Montecresto said:
Iraq is a failed state on account of US interference for a dozen years now.
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Its too much for you to acknowledge the FACT that Iraq went from open and free elections to ISIS terrorist murdering their way through one Iraq city after the other.

I put too much value on objectivity to take on a Bush obsession
 
Fenton said:
Its too much for you to acknowledge the FACT that Iraq went from open and free elections to ISIS terrorist murdering their way through one Iraq city after the other.

I put too much value on objectivity to take on a Bush obsession
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It's too much that you think Iraq has ever been a free and open state. :lamo Stop pretending as though Iraq ever has or ever can be a democracy.

On the Democracy Index, Iraq ranks poorly. Of the 167 countries ranked for 2013, Iraq was classified as a “hybrid regime” (between a “flawed democracy” and an “authoritarian regime”) and came in at a ranking of 113. In 2013, according to Transparency International, Iraq ranked among the eight most corrupt nations and territories in the world.

War Without End: Why Iraq Can Never Be A Stable Democracy
War Without End: Why Iraq Can Never Be A Stable Democracy - Forbes

Iraq: West’s Failed Democracy Project
Iraq: West's Failed Democracy Project
 
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Fenton said:
Its too much for you to acknowledge the FACT that Iraq went from open and free elections to ISIS terrorist murdering their way through one Iraq city after the other.

I put too much value on objectivity to take on a Bush obsession
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Btw, the Middle East problem isn't just about Bush. Obama's ME policies have been equally disruptive to the relative peace, stability and containment of Islamic extremism under Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad, that's recognized as problematic by everybody. So why don't you try placing some of the blame for the ME troubles on Obama?
 
Montecresto said:
Ok. So......removing Saddam Hussein, sanctions on Iran, predator drone attacks in Pakistan and Yemen, puppet governments in Iraq and Afghanistan, supporting MB against Mubarak, removing Gaddafi, supporting the Syrian rebels against Assad................ None of this equates to forcing our will/influence to you? I still think you're playing.
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Is there a middle east country that does what we tell them to do? You can accuse us of trying to be imperial but we have certainly failed in the middle east.
 
fmw said:
Is there a middle east country that does what we tell them to do? You can accuse us of trying to be imperial but we have certainly failed in the middle east.
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We can agree that the US has failed in the ME.
 
Grant said:
This has nothing to do with being "The World's Police". The American people committed themselves to a war, lost many good people, spent billions of dollars, eliminated an insanely murderous dictator, introduced democracy to the country for the first time in its history and then made an ignoble retreat by throwing it all away.

That has absolutely nothing to do with being the "World's Police", something Congress never approved anyway.
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It is being the world's police. All that claptrap you just vomitted is just excuses for a continuation of policing.
 
Montecresto said:
Stop pretending as though Iraq ever has or ever can be a democracy.
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Do you feel the Iraqi people are somehow inferior to other peoples? With a little study you'll discover that the Iraqi's who made it to the democracies have done quite well, and they certainly celebrated when they got their first opportunity to cast their ballots.

They said the same thing about Japan and Germany after WWII by the way, and both countries seem to be doing quite well.
 
poweRob said:
It is being the world's police. All that claptrap you just vomitted is just excuses for a continuation of policing.
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You don't understand the difference between 'policing' and a war, huh? It's like that with most liberals.
 
Grant said:
You don't understand the difference between 'policing' and a war, huh? It's like that with most liberals.
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And grant goes back to his usual ad hominem well when he loses a debate yet again.
 
poweRob said:
Because he sees us as the world's police. I don't. Which puts conservative hawks in such a mental quagmire in that they want what Obama's doing but can't actually allow themselves to agree with Obama on anything at the same time.
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So Obama is a liberal hawk? I didn't know that. As for Obama being a liberal hawk he is losing the war against the ISIS JV team. That would never happen with a conservative hawk. Hell Bush handed Obama a won war in Iraq that Obama left for ISIS to take over. Obama has no idea on how to win a war let along have a strategy to even try and win one. You have to admit Obama is an idiot.
 
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