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White House Promises to Bomb Ramadi Until City Retaken From ISIS

NIMBY said:
Treasonous is Bush leaving a SOFA agreement putting our soldiers under Sharia law with the Iranian puppet Maliki.

Expecting Obama to clean up this and eight years worth of catastrophic Bush/Cheney policies is GOP madness .
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:lamo
 
LeoVlaming said:
There wasn't much peace to "lose" in Iraq. That being said, it is true that the Obama administration's approach to jihadi terrorism in general, and the rise of IS in particular, has been pretty pathetic.
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Peace is a relative term, this is my measure...
BqQ_ejLIUAMpA6l.png:large


multigraph.php

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2014/

_72103266_iraq_deaths_v8_624gr.gif
 
NIMBY said:
Treasonous is Bush leaving a SOFA agreement putting our soldiers under Sharia law with the Iranian puppet Maliki.

Expecting Obama to clean up this and eight years worth of catastrophic Bush/Cheney policies is GOP madness .
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Nimby, you tell me-does the buck stop with Obama or not?
 
US Conservative said:
Peace is a relative term, this is my measure...
BqQ_ejLIUAMpA6l.png:large


multigraph.php

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2014/

_72103266_iraq_deaths_v8_624gr.gif
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I take your point. But I feel one can hardly describe a situation in which "only" a few hundred people are killed per month as "peace". That being said, the situation is worse now. And for the record, Iraq has never known "peace" in its existence, long before the US came on the scene. Unless you consider the peace of the mass grave as some sort of "peace".
 
DA60 said:
Ummm..because Iraq is another country and none of America's business...for one.

Let the Iraqi's fix their own messes.
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Don't make a fool of yourself pls. You invaded Iraq for the wrong reasons, pulled out of Iraq, then got back in to create a mess once again.
 
poweRob said:
Because we aren't the world's police?
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But now Obama has gone back in to bomb the crap out of the palace and that is not working. Obama pulled out all the troops then started sending them back in, plus a bunch of planes. If we're not the worlds police what the hell is he doing going back into Iraq. Why did he go into Libya.
 
Trojan said:
We can argue all day whether or not the American invasion of Iraq was justified and moral/immoral, but that isn't really the point. Our withdrawal likely exacerbated the speed in which fundamentalists were able to gain a foothold in that country. We had been there for years, spent millions if not billions rebuilding the country, had a number of Americans' blood spilled, and now it's crumbling before us. We have a large, capable force of Muslim militants spreading like a plague across the Middle East, capturing territory and slaughtering non-believers left and right. They are radicalizing Westerners - more specifically, impressionable millennials - are well funded and are brutal. Was the withdrawal worth the possible consequences that may follow?
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We spent an average of 100 billion dollars a month for every month we were there. So yes, unless we wanted to spend 100 billion dollars a month there indefinitely, the withdrawal was worth it as it is saving American lives and 100 billion dollars a month.

Moreover, this notion that if we had just left 10,000 troops or so there the country would be stable is ridiculous. We hardly kept the country stable when we had better than 150,000 men over there, the notion that we could keep the country safe and pacified with less than 10% of that is absurd.

We created this mess when we went into Iraq and deposed the dictator Saddam. All we can do now is contain it.
 
NIMBY said:
Treasonous is Bush leaving a SOFA agreement putting our soldiers under Sharia law with the Iranian puppet Maliki.

Expecting Obama to clean up this and eight years worth of catastrophic Bush/Cheney policies is GOP madness .
Click to expand...

Geee Biden and Obama don't agree with you, according to Biden and Obama Iraq was one of the great achievements of this administration. Seems to me Bush handed Obama a won war and then Obama ****ed it up. How do you explain that.

“I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s gonna be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re gonna see 90,000 American troops come marchin’ home by the end of the summer. You’re gonna see a stable government in Iraq that is actually movin’ toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.”

Watch Joe Biden Call Iraq "One of the Great Achievements of This Administration" | The Daily Caller
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We spent an average of 100 billion dollars a month for every month we were there. So yes, unless we wanted to spend 100 billion dollars a month there indefinitely, the withdrawal was worth it as it is saving American lives and 100 billion dollars a month.

Moreover, this notion that if we had just left 10,000 troops or so there the country would be stable is ridiculous. We hardly kept the country stable when we had better than 150,000 men over there, the notion that we could keep the country safe and pacified with less than 10% of that is absurd.

We created this mess when we went into Iraq and deposed the dictator Saddam. All we can do now is contain it.
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Seems we're loosing that battle too. As for creating a mess, Libya is also a mess, I still don't know whey we took Gaddafi out.
 
Born Free said:
Seems we're loosing that battle too. As for creating a mess, Libya is also a mess, I still don't know whey we took Gaddafi out.
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I totally agree with you there. It takes brutal dictatorships to have any kind of stability over there.
 
US Conservative said:
We have a weak POTUS currently, who lost the peace in Iraq and ignored the ISIS threat-calling them the "JV" team.

As a leftist, Obama is unable to handle evil, so this is the result. Nothing will change until a real leader is elected, and frankly that means a republican, or ideally a conservative.
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I understand that you believe this with all you being, but reality can be a bitch.
 
US Conservative said:
Indeed it can, which is why all of those real people really being killed by real terrorists are so upset.
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Dead people aren't concerned about anything.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We spent an average of 100 billion dollars a month for every month we were there. So yes, unless we wanted to spend 100 billion dollars a month there indefinitely, the withdrawal was worth it as it is saving American lives and 100 billion dollars a month.

Moreover, this notion that if we had just left 10,000 troops or so there the country would be stable is ridiculous. We hardly kept the country stable when we had better than 150,000 men over there, the notion that we could keep the country safe and pacified with less than 10% of that is absurd.

We created this mess when we went into Iraq and deposed the dictator Saddam. All we can do now is contain it.
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You're drastically inflating your numbers, unless you have a source that says otherwise.

March 2003 to December 2011 is 104 months. 100 billion per month would be > ten trillion dollars, even though estimates say that the Iraq War cost us $2.19 trillion, or 6 trillion over four decades. CBO estimates placed the cost of "temporary occupation" at $1-$4 billion per month. More than the $210-$300 million it costs us to perform air operations in Syria and Iraq against ISIL each month now, but not nearly as astronomical as you're claiming. If we double the high-end ($4 billion), and spread that over a period of 5 years (60 months), that would be 59% of one year's total defense spending - $480 billion dollars.

If you believe American lives are the top priority, and their saving worth Iraq imploding, I don't believe I'm going to convince you otherwise. I have a great respect for our servicemen and women, and it seems that our withdrawal was in vain. Their sacrifices were for nothing, save for seeing Saddam eliminated, and the Middle East has entered a new period of drastic instability and terrorism. We had been pushing a boulder uphill, but we let it fall back down to the bottom. Hopefully I'm wrong, and Iraq becomes peaceful, democratic, and stable in the near future, but I doubt that's going to be the case.
 
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Trojan said:
We can argue all day whether or not the American invasion of Iraq was justified and moral/immoral, but that isn't really the point. Our withdrawal likely exacerbated the speed in which fundamentalists were able to gain a foothold in that country. We had been there for years, spent millions if not billions rebuilding the country, had a number of Americans' blood spilled, and now it's crumbling before us. We have a large, capable force of Muslim militants spreading like a plague across the Middle East, capturing territory and slaughtering non-believers left and right. They are radicalizing Westerners - more specifically, impressionable millennials - are well funded and are brutal. Was the withdrawal worth the possible consequences that may follow?
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LOL It was OUR presence in Iraq that fired up the cause of fundamentalists. Our withdrawal after 10 years and trillions spent was by an agreement made in 2008 which the Iraqi's held us to. While it is true that the cause does not matter now it does not mean we should repeat the same mistakes and expect different outcomes. Our chaperoning of middle east was a miserable failure we are now trying something different....letting those who LIVE in the M.E. make it safe for them to raise their families. It is the only way for them to see that they must put aside there sectarian hatred and fight together in the name of peace. No U.S force can do that but we can lend a hand in ways that do not involve us doing all the fighting for them...like last time.
 
iguanaman said:
Our chaperoning of middle east was a miserable failure we are now trying something different....letting those who LIVE in the M.E. make it safe for them to raise their families. It is the only way for them to see that they must put aside there sectarian hatred and fight together in the name of peace. No U.S force can do that.
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Clearly our withdrawal was a success. The Islamic State is a peaceful, just, and virtuous crowd of misunderstood Muslim Westerners who seek to create better lives for the people of Iraq and Syria! As you can see by one of the charts posted earlier by another member, the amount of deaths in Iraq have skyrocketed after our withdrawal - more than doubled.

Do you believe the Middle East, more specifically Syria and Iraq, is better-off now under the Islamic State than it was under American occupation?
 
Trojan said:
Clearly our withdrawal was a success. The Islamic State is a peaceful, just, and virtuous crowd of misunderstood Muslim Westerners who seek to create better lives for the people of Iraq and Syria! As you can see by one of the charts posted earlier by another member, the amount of deaths in Iraq have skyrocketed after our withdrawal - more than doubled.

Do you believe the Middle East, more specifically Syria and Iraq, is better-off now under the Islamic State than it was under American occupation?
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The "you break it ,you bought it" analogy has some validity but only if we can do things that won't make the situation worse. Going back with 100's of 1000's of troops will not fix the middle east. As far as our withdrawal, GW Bush and Maliki share most of the blame for that when they signed an agreement to withdraw all our troops by 2011.
 
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