• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

10 members of Congress took trip secretly funded by foreign government

I think this is more of a common occurrence than we are aware of.
Do ya get the feeling with elected everyone in the Juridical system ( Not all, but many Judges, DA's Attorneys General)) play the partisan game to the detriment of society?
 
We really do have the best government money can buy...

"The lawmakers who took the trip were Reps. Jim Bridenstine (R-Okla.), Yvette D. Clarke (D-N.Y.), Danny K. Davis (D-Ill.), Rubén Hinojosa (D-Tex.), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), Leonard Lance (R-N.J.), Michelle Lujan Grisham (D-N.M.), Gregory W. Meeks (D-N.Y.), Ted Poe (R-Tex.) and then-Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Tex.).

Clarke is a member of the Ethics Committee."

Most people are going to count the number of each political party. Am certain there will be some gloating about the count of 6 Dems and 4 Reps. But even more interesting is that the state of Texas had the highest number at 4.

None from my state though.
 
10 members of Congress took trip secretly funded by foreign government - The Washington Post

From my perspective political corruption in the US is rampant.
Your thoughts are?

Sure, I think the U.S. federal government is corrupt. But I think the money corruption isn't the major issue. It is the political corruption that is the real problem. A junket isn't going to affect the country in any meaningful way. Legislating for votes rather than the common good affects the country seriously.
 
That's what the junkets are about!!
 
I thought that I might get some blow back on what my perspective is from up here in Canada.
AKA know as the greatest country in the world.
But back on topic.
We have lots of corruption here.
But it appears to be a regular in US news with politicians charged down south.

Pretty much...at this point the line is so blurred that barring "Yes...I will deregulate your industry for 300,000 dollars in cash" on a tap recorder anything goes. Staffers and Congress members leave office but just move to a lobbying firm, congress members family members get cushy lobbying jobs. It's insane
 
There you go!

When I read the generalizing & criticism for or against Republicans, Democrats, Liberals & Conservatives here & elsewhere I think that those terms have become meaningless to people who don't feel an affinity to any one of them.

For example, does anyone see the contradiction in supporting the death penalty but being against the right/choice to an abortion?

How can one genuinely be for everyone's right to own the firearm of their choice yet oppose Iran's possession of Nuclear Weapons?

Are you a "Liberal" or a "Conservative" if you support the choice to own a firearm AND the choice to have an abortion.

No one enjoys seeing the necessity for armed self-defense being used or an abortion being someone's choice, but you're either for an individual's right to make such choices or not.

By the way, I don't support either Republicans or Democrats & would love to see all of my Congressional Politicians go (House & Senate) but......

....... I'm afraid that supporters for the "Pissed Off" Party are a bit limited as far as a choice of tasteful logos; seat up or seat down?


Opinions / Thoughts?




Thanks
 
When I read the generalizing & criticism for or against Republicans, Democrats, Liberals & Conservatives here & elsewhere I think that those terms have become meaningless to people who don't feel an affinity to any one of them.

For example, does anyone see the contradiction in supporting the death penalty but being against the right/choice to an abortion?

How can one genuinely be for everyone's right to own the firearm of their choice yet oppose Iran's possession of Nuclear Weapons?

Are you a "Liberal" or a "Conservative" if you support the choice to own a firearm AND the choice to have an abortion.

No one enjoys seeing the necessity for armed self-defense being used or an abortion being someone's choice, but you're either for an individual's right to make such choices or not.

By the way, I don't support either Republicans or Democrats & would love to see all of my Congressional Politicians go (House & Senate) but......

....... I'm afraid that supporters for the "Pissed Off" Party are a bit limited as far as a choice of tasteful logos; seat up or seat down?


Opinions / Thoughts?




Thanks

Some good points. I think we should be freer from the constraints of one or the other, personally, I like the notion of pay go, balanced budgets and expenditures forced to match collections, my palms got sweaty standing in Inhofe's office two years ago watching the ND clock on his wall pick up fifteen million dollars in the few minutes I was in there. I also like the New deal, a fifty percent slash to the Pentagon budget with our military ratcheted back to a truly defensive force. And our infrastructure has been rated "D" for the last several years reports from the American Society of Civil Engineers, so I'd like to see a healthy infrastructure bill. I'd also like to see less porous borders and a tighter run immigration policy. I don't want drilling and fraking or logging in our old growth forests and I'm sick of corruption and abuse in our nations police departments. I think I just piss everybody off, no pigeon hole.
 
We really do have the best government money can buy...

"The lawmakers who took the trip were Reps. Jim Bridenstine (R-Okla.), Yvette D. Clarke (D-N.Y.), Danny K. Davis (D-Ill.), Rubén Hinojosa (D-Tex.), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), Leonard Lance (R-N.J.), Michelle Lujan Grisham (D-N.M.), Gregory W. Meeks (D-N.Y.), Ted Poe (R-Tex.) and then-Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Tex.).

Clarke is a member of the Ethics Committee."

Greetings, OrphanSlug. :2wave:

Thanks for posting the names! When I read that three aides of Obama were to be speakers at the conference, I wondered who else was going - now I know. I guess Canada didn't offer the perks that Azerbaijan did, or we'd have jobs for people here who hoped to work on the pipeline instead of talking with a country halfway around the world about oil! And exactly why was this done in secret, with a Democrat member of the Ethics Committee as one of the participants? Who okayed that? :2mad:
 
Greetings, OrphanSlug. :2wave:

Thanks for posting the names! When I read that three aides of Obama were to be speakers at the conference, I wondered who else was going - now I know. I guess Canada didn't offer the perks that Azerbaijan did, or we'd have jobs for people here who hoped to work on the pipeline instead of talking with a country halfway around the world about oil! And exactly why was this done in secret, with a Democrat member of the Ethics Committee as one of the participants? Who okayed that? :2mad:

All valid questions, and I bet we never get clear answers from them.
 
Anytime I am making any big IT purchases at work, various vendors will try to buy me lunch, take me to games, take me to concerts and so on. I never do it because I don't want the appearance of anything other than business / technology factors to be influencing my decisions. Most people however do take vendors up on such offers all the time. Politicians going on these junkets is just a bigger version of that.

My point is that the problem is not just in politics, what goes on in politics is a reflection of what goes on in much of the business world every day. If you let sales people buy you big dinners and take you go games when they are trying to win your business at work, then its pretty hypocritical to complain about corruption in politics as you are part of the problem.
 
Anytime I am making any big IT purchases at work, various vendors will try to buy me lunch, take me to games, take me to concerts and so on. I never do it because I don't want the appearance of anything other than business / technology factors to be influencing my decisions. Most people however do take vendors up on such offers all the time. Politicians going on these junkets is just a bigger version of that.

My point is that the problem is not just in politics, what goes on in politics is a reflection of what goes on in much of the business world every day. If you let sales people buy you big dinners and take you go games when they are trying to win your business at work, then its pretty hypocritical to complain about corruption in politics as you are part of the problem.

No it is not. What private business engages in to close deals is between those businesses and is entirely up to them assuming no illegal activity. You have every right to decide not to participate in that, it is your choice.

However, the government is not a private business and should be subject to scrutiny on these shady activities as it could influence policy that affects us all. Like energy policy and/or foreign policy.

The two are simply not the same.
 
Greetings, OrphanSlug. :2wave:

Thanks for posting the names! When I read that three aides of Obama were to be speakers at the conference, I wondered who else was going - now I know. I guess Canada didn't offer the perks that Azerbaijan did, or we'd have jobs for people here who hoped to work on the pipeline instead of talking with a country halfway around the world about oil! And exactly why was this done in secret, with a Democrat member of the Ethics Committee as one of the participants? Who okayed that? :2mad:

To the bolded Polgara :2wave: The same thing bothered me when Cheney met secretly with the big oil to hammer out our nations energy policy, wink wink, nod nod.
 
To the bolded Polgara :2wave: The same thing bothered me when Cheney met secretly with the big oil to hammer out our nations energy policy, wink wink, nod nod.

Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:

I think if we just explain by saying "well, they're just politicians doing their thing," everybody will know what we mean and nod their head in understanding. :lamo: No one in DC seems to want to change the status quo on anything until it's way past time to do so, and until then, they spend our money however they want! They're "special," you know! :thumbdown:
 
Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:

I think if we just explain by saying "well, they're just politicians doing their thing," everybody will know what we mean and nod their head in understanding. :lamo: No one in DC seems to want to change the status quo on anything until it's way past time to do so, and until then, they spend our money however they want! They're "special," you know! :thumbdown:

Time for independents to act like it.
 
Time for independents to act like it.

It's times like this when I really miss Pero, because he kept us updated on what the polls were saying. He said it was a hobby, and he enjoyed doing it, but it sure sounded like a lot of work to me! :duel:
 
No it is not. What private business engages in to close deals is between those businesses and is entirely up to them assuming no illegal activity. You have every right to decide not to participate in that, it is your choice.

However, the government is not a private business and should be subject to scrutiny on these shady activities as it could influence policy that affects us all. Like energy policy and/or foreign policy.

The two are simply not the same.

Culturally its exactly the same. Lobbyists wine and dine congressman to influence policy (decisions) in their favor. Vendors wine and dine a purchaser at a business to influence decisions by that purchaser. The only difference is the scale of it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of corruption is perfectly legal.
 
Culturally its exactly the same. Lobbyists wine and dine congressman to influence policy (decisions) in their favor. Vendors wine and dine a purchaser at a business to influence decisions by that purchaser. The only difference is the scale of it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of corruption is perfectly legal.

The scale, and the fact that business that continue to make poor decisions tend to go away. Government, on the other hand, just keeps getting bigger and more expensive, and the people making poor decisions keep getting re elected.
 
It's times like this when I really miss Pero, because he kept us updated on what the polls were saying. He said it was a hobby, and he enjoyed doing it, but it sure sounded like a lot of work to me! :duel:

What happened to Pero??
 
The scale, and the fact that business that continue to make poor decisions tend to go away. Government, on the other hand, just keeps getting bigger and more expensive, and the people making poor decisions keep getting re elected.

What a great point Ditto!
 
The scale, and the fact that business that continue to make poor decisions tend to go away. Government, on the other hand, just keeps getting bigger and more expensive, and the people making poor decisions keep getting re elected.

I am not really talking about businesses versus government, I am talking about individuals in business and individuals in government. My point was that people do the same things in business that they do in government, its a cultural problem.
 
I am not really talking about businesses versus government, I am talking about individuals in business and individuals in government. My point was that people do the same things in business that they do in government, its a cultural problem.

and those individuals do make decisions that affect their respective institutions. If they didn't, they wouldn't be courted and given perks in the first place.

and yes, it's a cultural problem that people seem to think it's OK to bribe the decision makers with goodies. It's a cultural problem that people think that pouring money into a political campaign in hopes of getting some return on the "investment" as well.
 
If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honor or shall,without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever,from any emperor, king,prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.'


this sounds like a good idea!




side note:..this is not part of the constitution
 
Last edited:
If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honor or shall,without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever,from any emperor, king,prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.'


this sounds like a good idea!
Not just a good idea, but the supreme law of the land.

US CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 8

It's time we applied it to anyone getting "emoluments" from foreign governments.


1.
profit, salary, or fees from office or employment; compensation for services:
Tips are an emolument in addition to wages.
Synonyms: earnings, pay, recompense, stipend, honorarium.

and then there are the US pols who get money from foreign governments for their campaigns....
 
and those individuals do make decisions that affect their respective institutions. If they didn't, they wouldn't be courted and given perks in the first place.

and yes, it's a cultural problem that people seem to think it's OK to bribe the decision makers with goodies. It's a cultural problem that people think that pouring money into a political campaign in hopes of getting some return on the "investment" as well.

But that is my point, what goes on in politics is nothing but a reflection of what goes on in the business world. I have vendors constantly trying to buy me lunches / dinner, take me to games, opening day, concerts and so on. I never do do it though. However, I would say that 95% of purchases / decision makers in business do it all the time, but then hypocritically complain about politicians doing it when they are part of the problem.
 
Back
Top Bottom