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Tex. bill would bar local officials from issuing same-sex-marriage licenses

Yeah, and even the justices realize Roe v Wade was constitutionally groundless. As has been explained to you in this very thread.

To answer your first question, the same way we catch folks breaking other laws when they are trying to hide their illegal activities behind closed doors. By your argument it should be perfectly legal to beat your children as long as no one sees you doing it and you don't leave too many bruises.

*laugh* No, it is not groundless and no, not remotely 'justified'...altho anyone can have an 'explanation.'

Of course you cant beat your children...that infringes on their rights. *Generally* (not always) an infringement on rights can be verified by that individual or representatives or the public, etc. But it's stupid and as I mentioned, IMO unConstitutional to have laws that harm no one and cannot be verified or enforced **without due process and the invasion of privacy.** Very presumptuous and unnecessary on the part of the govt and nothing any real American would ever want...or need.
 
*laugh* No, it is not groundless and no, not remotely 'justified'...altho anyone can have an 'explanation.'

What do you mean about 'justified', not sure where that entered the picture, certainly wasn't from my post that you quoted as answering. And yes, there is no privacy amendment to the constitution.

Of course you cant beat your children...that infringes on their rights. *Generally* (not always) an infringement on rights can be verified by that individual or representatives or the public, etc. But it's stupid and as I mentioned, IMO unConstitutional to have laws that harm no one and cannot be verified or enforced **without due process and the invasion of privacy.** Very presumptuous and unnecessary on the part of the govt and nothing any real American would ever want...or need.

No, you can't, not legally. You so obviously don't understand what due process is, that element of your argument is totally bogus. And no, it's not unconstitutional to have laws against so-called "victimless" crimes. There are quite a few of them in fact.

And again, that criminals hide their crimes behind closed doors does not render the law invalid or unconstitutional.
 
What do you mean about 'justified', not sure where that entered the picture, certainly wasn't from my post that you quoted as answering. And yes, there is no privacy amendment to the constitution.


No, you can't, not legally. You so obviously don't understand what due process is, that element of your argument is totally bogus. And no, it's not unconstitutional to have laws against so-called "victimless" crimes. There are quite a few of them in fact.

And again, that criminals hide their crimes behind closed doors does not render the law invalid or unconstitutional.


Wrong word choice then. Not 'justifiable' but not compelling, legally.

Of course there are unConstitutional laws...we are discussing some of them. It doesnt mean they would stand up to Constitutional scrutiny, just that they havent been challenged, on the right grounds. Like prostitution...not enough people are interested in challenging that.
 
Wrong word choice then. Not 'justifiable' but not compelling, legally.

Of course there are unConstitutional laws...we are discussing some of them. It doesnt mean they would stand up to Constitutional scrutiny, just that they havent been challenged, on the right grounds. Like prostitution...not enough people are interested in challenging that.

I'd say there have been quite a few very powerful folks in our society, a lot in our government then and now, who would have no problem with prostitution being legal, would happily prefer it. I'm sure this number has included supreme court justices, then and now. Laws against prostitution are in no way unconstitutional.
 
I'd say there have been quite a few very powerful folks in our society, a lot in our government then and now, who would have no problem with prostitution being legal, would happily prefer it. I'm sure this number has included supreme court justices, then and now. Laws against prostitution are in no way unconstitutional.

They are an unnecessary infringement on personal liberty and pursuit of happiness. It does no harm (the enforcement of it does however.) How true Americans can not object to that, I dont understand. It is the people that choose to force their moral perspectives and/or beliefs on others for their own ends...not the good of society.

I agree tho, there is no consistency in this principle...hence laws allowing sale and consumption of alcohol but preventing the same for pot.
 
Religious ceremonies are valid without a license, what one does not acquire without a license is recognition by the state. This is a common misunderstanding. The institution of marriage is a religious one, to gain state benefits from this religious institution one must obtain a marriage license. That is the method by which the state has chosen to recognize the religious institution of marriage.

Fact 1: The state recognizes marriages based on performance of a religious ceremony.

Fact 2: Same-sex couples have been receiving religious marriages for decades.

Fact 3: Failure to equally recognize valid religious ceremonies performed by a religious organization and not the same ceremony performed by another religoius organization would be a violation of the 1st Amendment rights of the couples not recognized equally.



So you support religoius same-sex marriages performed by religious organizations that sanction such things being recognized equally by the government right?



>>>>
 
Not "some founders" the actual ones that crafted the provision. And the intent was clearly written out in the Federalist Papers. I also explained why the court's overreach was a rewriting of the constitution. Indefinite patent is what the court's decision achieved.

It can't be a "rewriting of the Constitution" if the Constitution doesn't actually say that.
 
No, they weren't. The feds didn't have the grant of power to ban sodomy. However, the state and local does, and such laws existed all throughout the lifetime of the founders. Had they been unconstitutional, don't you think they would have known, having written the constitution?

Nope. And the founders don't exist today. This is not their time. It is ours. We decide what our Constitution is about. Not men from a time long dead using words that they may have said or even did say.
 
Didn't read the whole thing did you? The feds don't, but the states do.

No, the states don't. They have to abide by the US Constitution, and those things guaranteed to be protected by it. Individual rights override state rights in most cases. The states cannot restrict individual rights just because they think something is "wrong" or "icky".
 
They are an unnecessary infringement on personal liberty and pursuit of happiness. It does no harm (the enforcement of it does however.) How true Americans can not object to that, I dont understand. It is the people that choose to force their moral perspectives and/or beliefs on others for their own ends...not the good of society.

I agree tho, there is no consistency in this principle...hence laws allowing sale and consumption of alcohol but preventing the same for pot.

Pretty much all law has it's base in morality.
 
Nope. And the founders don't exist today. This is not their time. It is ours. We decide what our Constitution is about. Not men from a time long dead using words that they may have said or even did say.

Absolutely incorrect. If we today want the constitution to say something it does not, that's what the amendment process is for.
 
That doesn't make your inaccurate assertion that the SCOTUS commands the US Marshall service, the Coast Guard or the National Guard any more correct.

You misread.
 
I don't recall starting a thread here. But in any case, there is no hypocrisy in any of my posts, so there is no need for me to answer anyone's assertions about it--even if they were expressed coherently enough to understand. When you claim I "emphasized the unenforceability of law," I don't know what you are talking about. I think I remarked that a law which has been held unconstitutional is invalid and unenforceable because someone (who knows why) had questioned that. But if so, I was only restating what should have been obvious.

I support morals laws. I believe, just as most people in every state in this country have believed from the beginning, that promoting majoritarian morality is a legitimate government interest. If most people in a state believe public nudity, prostitution, bigamy, bestiality, mothers marrying their daughters, and so on are immoral and unacceptable, they should be able to make laws prohibiting those things. The view Justice Stevens expressed to the contrary in his dissenting opinion in Bowers v. Hardwick, which Justice Kennedy signed onto in Lawrence, was dead wrong and destructive to our society. I hope one day Justice Ginsburg (whose views I usually disagree with but whose integrity and reasoning I respect) will retire, an originalist justice will be appointed to replace her, and the Court will reverse its position on that.

Justice Stevens was a maverick who did some damage with his wacky notions when he was on the Court, but most of it can still be undone. He was famously the author of a majority opinion which held that carbon dioxide--you know, that stuff we all exhale with every breath, and that puts the sparkle in our Diet Pepsi--is a "pollutant" within the meaning of the Clean Air Act. As someone who once studied the Clear Air Act and its history pretty thoroughly, I know that is utter nonsense. But it is vintage Stevens.

Your post went to the outhouse at this point.
"I support morals laws. I believe, just as most people in every state in this country have believed from the beginning, that promoting majoritarian morality is a legitimate government interest. If most people in a state believe public nudity, prostitution, bigamy, bestiality, mothers marrying their daughters, and so on are immoral and unacceptable, they should be able to make laws prohibiting those things".
I bolded the 3 points where it went down the tubes.
Why does your Constitution have a Supreme Court?
 
Absolutely incorrect. If we today want the constitution to say something it does not, that's what the amendment process is for.

The Constitution is vague in many places and its main purpose is to protect the people from the government, including state governments.
 
Enough said. That's pretty much the equivalent of desiring to see religiously based law.

I prefer to see the govt stay out of such things where it clearly has no business when there is no demonstrated harm or infringements on others...govt over-reach and intrusion into personal lives is not remotely a goal I'd like to see furthered.

This isnt really about the law anymore...it's about your personal morals. That's fine. We all have our opinions and beliefs. However I try very hard not to impose mine on others if there's no actual harm or if the imposition is clearly unConstitutional (to me), such as the suppression of personal liberty for no reason.

Most criminal laws in this country, in the end, reflect the teachings of Christianity about right and wrong. But the fact a state law that makes adultery a crime codifies one of the Ten Commandments, for example, does not mean that law is an unconstitutional intrusion of religion into government.
 
So Police misusing and abusing the Law is OK with you as long as it is someone else.

Not being a statist, I don't feel a need to try to tell the residents of other states how to manage their affairs. If any official violated a law, Louisiana is capable of dealing with the situation.
 
Your post went to the outhouse at this point.
"I support morals laws. I believe, just as most people in every state in this country have believed from the beginning, that promoting majoritarian morality is a legitimate government interest. If most people in a state believe public nudity, prostitution, bigamy, bestiality, mothers marrying their daughters, and so on are immoral and unacceptable, they should be able to make laws prohibiting those things".
I bolded the 3 points where it went down the tubes.
Why does your Constitution have a Supreme Court?

Your response is predictable. When an argument irks you, but you don't have enough game to make a coherent answer to it, try to hide the fact by making a lame attempt at an insult.

I am not sure what peeves you so. Is it that you think state laws against bestiality, bigamy and homosexual incest--or maybe other acts involving sex--are fundamentally unfair? Maybe you think the fact most people consider those acts immoral and unacceptable is not a good enough reason to make them illegal.

Your last question is gibberish. I don't have my own constitution, nor does anyone else. Article III of the Constitution of the United States creates a Supreme Court.
 
Most criminal laws in this country, in the end, reflect the teachings of Christianity about right and wrong. But the fact a state law that makes adultery a crime codifies one of the Ten Commandments, for example, does not mean that law is an unconstitutional intrusion of religion into government.

It does if that's the only demonstrable basis for the law.
 
Not being a statist, I don't feel a need to try to tell the residents of other states how to manage their affairs. If any official violated a law, Louisiana is capable of dealing with the situation.
Good morning
From the news reports they cannot. It is being used to intimidate people.
 
Your response is predictable. When an argument irks you, but you don't have enough game to make a coherent answer to it, try to hide the fact by making a lame attempt at an insult.

I am not sure what peeves you so. Is it that you think state laws against bestiality, bigamy and homosexual incest--or maybe other acts involving sex--are fundamentally unfair? Maybe you think the fact most people consider those acts immoral and unacceptable is not a good enough reason to make them illegal.

Your last question is gibberish. I don't have my own constitution, nor does anyone else. Article III of the Constitution of the United States creates a Supreme Court.

No your comparision of morality laws. When we know many are outdated.
 
Your response is predictable. When an argument irks you, but you don't have enough game to make a coherent answer to it, try to hide the fact by making a lame attempt at an insult.

I am not sure what peeves you so. Is it that you think state laws against bestiality, bigamy and homosexual incest--or maybe other acts involving sex--are fundamentally unfair? Maybe you think the fact most people consider those acts immoral and unacceptable is not a good enough reason to make them illegal.

Your last question is gibberish. I don't have my own constitution, nor does anyone else. Article III of the Constitution of the United States creates a Supreme Court.

My apologies, the intent was sarcasm not to insult.
 
It does if that's the only demonstrable basis for the law.

Most of the people who founded this country were Christians, in particular English Protestants. The state criminal laws they made were based directly on English common law, which was substantially influenced by Christian teachings about right and wrong. No doubt those historical facts irk people who are hostile to Christianity.

But the notion that criminal laws violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment because they ultimately have a religious basis is silly. As I said, the fact laws against adultery codify the Seventh Commandment does not make them unconstitutional. In practice, religious beliefs are never "the only demonstrable basis" for laws like those. The Supreme Court discussed this issue in this case involving Sunday closing laws:


[T]he "Establishment" Clause does not ban federal or state regulation of conduct whose reason or effect merely happens to coincide or harmonize with the tenets of some or all religions. In many instances, the Congress or state legislatures conclude that the general welfare of society, wholly apart from any religious considerations, demands such regulation. Thus, for temporal purposes, murder is illegal. And the fact that this agrees with the dictates of the Judaeo-Christian religions while it may disagree with others does not invalidate the regulation. So too with the questions of adultery and polygamy. The same could be said of theft, fraud, etc., because those offenses were also proscribed in the Decalogue.

McGowan v. Maryland, 366 U.S. 420, 442 (1961).
 
No your comparision of morality laws. When we know many are outdated.

Whether you think a law is outdated has nothing whatever to do with whether it violates anything in the Constitution.
 
The Constitution is vague in many places and its main purpose is to protect the people from the government, including state governments.

No, it's to restrict the scope of power, mainly for the federal government. This is why we also have state constitutions.
 
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