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NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules[W:25]

Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Yes, and why don't we do that? Because we keep sending the smart ass or the dumb elephant to office.

There isn't anyone else to send, no matter who else you pick, because both sides would stop anyone else you sent from ever getting anything done. You'd have to entirely replace the government to make a difference. Do you really think that will ever be likely?
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

There isn't anyone else to send, no matter who else you pick, because both sides would stop anyone else you sent from ever getting anything done. You'd have to entirely replace the government to make a difference. Do you really think that will ever be likely?

Ok. So why are we here? If we're going to continue doing the same thing hoping for a different result, somebody said something about that once. When are we going to demand that bills are read before they are voted upon?
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Ok. So why are we here? If we're going to continue doing the same thing hoping for a different result, somebody said something about that once. When are we going to demand that bills are read before they are voted upon?

I don't know who you're arguing with, I've already said we need to require all bills to be read by the actual elected official before they're voted on.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Russ Feingold was the only principled man in the US Senate, the only man to vote against the travesty that is the Unpatriot Act.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

I don't know who you're arguing with, I've already said we need to require all bills to be read by the actual elected official before they're voted on.

Right, that's been being said for how long now with no results, and yet the same two parties of stooges keep being recycled. Until Americans bench these two and vote independent, we'll continue to get the same.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

There isn't anyone else to send, no matter who else you pick, because both sides would stop anyone else you sent from ever getting anything done. You'd have to entirely replace the government to make a difference. Do you really think that will ever be likely?

Well, we could start voting for the candidate rather than for the party, but no, that would require the voters to actually know who they're voting for, what the issues are, and where the candidates stand on those issues. That's way too much for the voters to do.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Russ Feingold was the only principled man in the US Senate, the only man to vote against the travesty that is the Unpatriot Act.

True HD. However, there were two men who could have prevented it from ever even coming to a vote, Tom Daschel and Patrick Leahy. They both were stuttering on it, having concerns about it, and they both had their offices anthraxed with anthrax that originated from an eastern army base. That case was never solved, both those men immediately came on board and the bill was passed, and dumb ass Americans have once again dismissed, forgotten about or accepted it as just one more coincidence!!
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

True HD. However, there were two men who could have prevented it from ever even coming to a vote, Tom Daschel and Patrick Leahy. They both were stuttering on it, having concerns about it, and they both had their offices anthraxed with anthrax that originated from an eastern army base. That case was never solved, both those men immediately came on board and the bill was passed, and dumb ass Americans have once again dismissed, forgotten about or accepted it as just one more coincidence!!

One could almost argue that the Fourth Reich ist hier.....
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Right, that's been being said for how long now with no results, and yet the same two parties of stooges keep being recycled. Until Americans bench these two and vote independent, we'll continue to get the same.

Independent candidates are not demonstrably any better than what we have right now. You think they're just going to be magic. I think they'll just be more of the same.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Well, we could start voting for the candidate rather than for the party, but no, that would require the voters to actually know who they're voting for, what the issues are, and where the candidates stand on those issues. That's way too much for the voters to do.

I agree with that but we've got a government right now that not only discourages dishonesty, it requires it. If you want to get anywhere, you have to get your hands dirty, you have to let other candidates pad the bills, feather their own nests and you have to do the same thing otherwise your constituents won't re-elect you. Government inherently corrupts all who become involved with it. The only way to change that is to essentially flush 200 years of American government and start over the way the founding fathers intended. I don't see that happening any time soon.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Independent candidates are not demonstrably any better than what we have right now. You think they're just going to be magic. I think they'll just be more of the same.

Oh, oh, oh its magic. No, it will be different, check their platforms. And while he's running as a democrat, Bernie Sanders will be as different to the party as Ron Paul would have been to the GOP.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

I agree with that but we've got a government right now that not only discourages dishonesty, it requires it. If you want to get anywhere, you have to get your hands dirty, you have to let other candidates pad the bills, feather their own nests and you have to do the same thing otherwise your constituents won't re-elect you. Government inherently corrupts all who become involved with it. The only way to change that is to essentially flush 200 years of American government and start over the way the founding fathers intended. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Well, on that we might agree. As a matter of fact, one of them even said as much, though he thought it should be every 20 years.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

The government has always spied on the people. I think it would be in everyones best interest to keep it illegal. That way we can at least maintain the illusion of freedom.

At least we will still have all the check points in this country. I feel much safer with the SS I mean NSA keeping us safe from the socialist I mean terrorist.::lamo
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

Oh, oh, oh its magic. No, it will be different, check their platforms. And while he's running as a democrat, Bernie Sanders will be as different to the party as Ron Paul would have been to the GOP.

It's too bad you have no idea how American politics actually operates, isn't it? :roll:
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

It's too bad you have no idea how American politics actually operates, isn't it? :roll:

What a duck and dive. That's an interesting way to make your point. Apparently in your defeatist mind, were stuck, doomed to the ass and the elephant forever. I wonder, are you as vocal when republicans pass bills without reading them, or are you a fair and balanced, non partisan advocate for truth and justice.
 
At any rate, we must basque in the pleasure of the court ruling what many of us readily knew all along, that the NSA, as warned by the Church committee 40 odd years ago, was being used by consecutive administrations illegally against all American citizens!! Now, will the NSA be instructed to cease this illegal behavior?
 
No it will not, for the tail is wagging the dog....
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

What a duck and dive. That's an interesting way to make your point. Apparently in your defeatist mind, were stuck, doomed to the ass and the elephant forever. I wonder, are you as vocal when republicans pass bills without reading them, or are you a fair and balanced, non partisan advocate for truth and justice.

It has nothing to do with defeatism, it has to do with realism. You seem to think that electing some third party candidates is going to magically change decades and decades and decades of corruption in Washington. It's just not going to happen. And yes, I am absolutely vocal when anyone votes for anything without reading it, they're not doing their job. I'm not beholden to any party, only to honesty and reality.
 
Re: NSA collection of phone info illegal, court rules

It has nothing to do with defeatism, it has to do with realism. You seem to think that electing some third party candidates is going to magically change decades and decades and decades of corruption in Washington. It's just not going to happen. And yes, I am absolutely vocal when anyone votes for anything without reading it, they're not doing their job. I'm not beholden to any party, only to honesty and reality.

Where is it that I told you that third party candidates are magicians with power to overturn a century of American political corruption? You eat an elephant one bite at a time.
 
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