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Shot NYPD cop dies

"Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."
 
Somerville said:
and the UK's murder rate is lower than the US's
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and it was even less before they started banning guns

so that really means nothing but lets focus

someone willing to kill a cop is not going to be deterred by the threat of having an illegal gun and people who buy and sell narcotics are not going to be unable to find a gun if they are banned

so the rant about gun laws is just stupid
 
TurtleDude said:
and it was even less before they started banning guns
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Nonsense. UK murder rates are the lowest in 30 years

someone willing to kill a cop is not going to be deterred by the threat of having an illegal gun and people who buy and sell narcotics are not going to be unable to find a gun if they are banned
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Of course they will. You had 50 cops shot and killed in the line of duty last year where we had none
 
BrewerBob said:
I'm not sure why there would be protests. The murderer was captured and will almost certainly be convicted. Protests are the result of people perceiving that justice isn't being done.

No, in this case vigils should be held, not protests.
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That wasn't true in the case in Baltimore, now was it?
 
The choice society has is straight-forward: we either need to disarm people or increase the militarization of the police in order to stop these killings.
 
flogger said:
Well I have fired and been fired at during my armed service if that counts :cool:
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Why'd you fire back if you think that the ability to take a life is so disgusting?

The ability to kill and therefore in turn be killed with much greater facility is not an interpretation of freedom that anyone outwith the US would recognise or want to indulge.
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So, if I own a gun, and have said gun for self protection of myself, my property, and my family, and my constitution affords me that right, then because you have some kind of problem with guns, I shouldn't want to "indulge"??? Your reasoning is quite convoluted to me....

Your nations example is the obvious reason why.
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My nations example eh? Well, all I can tell ya is that I own a gun, and I have that right, that you don't like it is tough ****...It's my right whether you like it or not....

Disguising your armed paranoid fears of each other by calling it freedom is therefore quite laughable frankly
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I don't have any "paranoid fears" that is YOUR characterization in order to continue to bait me into an argument...Hey, look, you don't own a gun, and don't want one...Good for you, I'd never try and tell you that you should, or try and force you to go out and buy one, but it is too bad that people like you don't feel the same way when someone doesn't hold the same view as you....For instance, if you could, I am pretty sure, you'd try and take away my right to own one...And that is just sad in how you feel the need to force your views and fears on me....
 
j-mac said:
Why'd you fire back if you think that the ability to take a life is so disgusting?
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Its a thing called war.

So, if I own a gun, and have said gun for self protection of myself, my property, and my family, and my constitution affords me that right, then because you have some kind of problem with guns, I shouldn't want to "indulge"??? Your reasoning is quite convoluted to me....
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If you want to unnecessarily endanger yourself and your family thats your decision. I on the other hand think I have a responsibility to me and mine not to do that.

My nations example eh? Well, all I can tell ya is that I own a gun, and I have that right, that you don't like it is tough ****...It's my right whether you like it or not....
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I'd hate to live with such a fear of everything. Some freedom :(

I don't have any "paranoid fears" that is YOUR characterization in order to continue to bait me into an argument...Hey, look, you don't own a gun, and don't want one...Good for you, I'd never try and tell you that you should, or try and force you to go out and buy one, but it is too bad that people like you don't feel the same way when someone doesn't hold the same view as you....For instance, if you could, I am pretty sure, you'd try and take away my right to own one...And that is just sad in how you feel the need to force your views and fears on me...
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I guess I cannot get my head round why any developed society would willingly do this to itself ,and be in complete denial about the consequences ! :shock:
 
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flogger said:
Nonsense. UK murder rates are the lowest in 30 years



Of course they will. You had 50 cops shot and killed in the line of duty last year where we had none
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you don't understand the facts

England's murder rate has always been lowers than ours and that was before you all started banning guns.

and you cannot establish gun bans is what makes you all safer

what we do know is that white americans don't have any higher rates of violent crime than the disarmed whites in Britain
 
flogger said:
Its a thing called war.
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Oh, so there are situations where you would use a gun to protect yourself eh? You just don't want anyone else to be able to....That speaks volumes...

If you want to unnecessarily endanger yourself and your family thats your decision. I on the other hand think I have a responsibility to me and mine not to do that.
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That I "endanger" myself, is your opinion.

I'd hate to live with such a fear of everything. Some freedom
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I've already told you that you were wrong about that....So, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop with the false picture you're trying to paint here, it's very dishonest...And it is freedom, for example, I have the freedom to own a gun, you don't.

I guess I cannot get my head round why any developed society would willingly do this to itself ,and be in complete denial about the consequences !
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I don't really care what you comprehend or not...You don't live here, so frankly, your opinion, or understanding is really of no consequence to me...
 
flogger said:
Undoubtedly had the criminal not found it so easy to access a firearm in the first place this officer would still be alive today :(
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Firearms aren't the problem.
 
TurtleDude said:
you don't understand the facts
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And clearly you don't understand the math

and you cannot establish gun bans is what makes you all safer
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Except that we are over 40 times less likely to be shot of course

what we do know is that white americans don't have any higher rates of violent crime than the disarmed whites in Britain
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Given you have the highest incarceration rates and the highest police deaths per capita recorded anywhere in the developed world that claim does not even bear the most cursory of examinations
 
j-mac said:
Oh, so there are situations where you would use a gun to protect yourself eh? You just don't want anyone else to be able to....That speaks volumes...
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Yes I have the ability to tell the difference between war and peace

That I "endanger" myself, is your opinion
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Nope its a statistical fact

I've already told you that you were wrong about that....So, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop with the false picture you're trying to paint here, it's very dishonest...And it is freedom, for example, I have the freedom to own a gun, you don't.
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You have the freedom to needlessly endanger yourself and your family. Good luck with that :wink:

I don't really care what you comprehend or not...You don't live here, so frankly, your opinion, or understanding is really of no consequence to me...
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Nor are the facts it seems :(
 
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MrVicchio said:
Violent crime on increase England and Wales - Telegraph
Crime statistics for England and Wales: violent crime and sexual offences | News | The Guardian

Yep, those defenseless ideals of yours sure are making the UK a swell place to live.
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Get up to date

The crime rate in England is now so low they in fact need 15K fewer police since 2010

England's Crime Rate Has Fallen So Low They Need 15K Fewer Police - Good News Network

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/17/crime-falls-england-wales-lowest-level-33-years

Authoritative crime survey of England and Wales finds 20% drop in violent crime, 17% fall in criminal damage and 10% fall in theft A record 14% fall in the last 12 months has taken crime levels in England and Wales to their lowest level for 33 years, according to the Office for National Statistics.
 
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flogger said:
Get up to date

The crime rate in England is now so low they in fact need 15K fewer police since 2010

England's Crime Rate Has Fallen So Low They Need 15K Fewer Police - Good News Network

Crime falls 14% in England and Wales to reach lowest level in 33 years | UK news | The Guardian

Authoritative crime survey of England and Wales finds 20% drop in violent crime, 17% fall in criminal damage and 10% fall in theft A record 14% fall in the last 12 months has taken crime levels in England and Wales to their lowest level for 33 years, according to the Office for National Statistics.
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Violent crime surges 16% in new figures - Telegraph - 2015 (you are quoting 2014)
Crime shows biggest rise for a decade | Daily Mail Online
As at 31 March 2015, there were 17,295 full-time equivalent (FTE) police officers in Scotland. This is an increase of 1,061 police officers from the position at 31 March 2007 (+6.5 per cent).
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Crime and Justice Statistics
 
MrVicchio said:
Violent crime surges 16% in new figures - Telegraph - 2015 (you are quoting 2014)
Crime shows biggest rise for a decade | Daily Mail Online

Crime and Justice Statistics
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Aw, you're so cute!! :roll: Is quote mining seen as an essential aspect of conservative 'rebuttals'?

from the linked Telegraph article
An ONS spokesman said: "The renewed focus on the quality of crime recording is likely to have prompted improved compliance with national standards, leading to more crimes being recorded than previously.
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and
The separate Crime Survey of England and Wales (CSEW), which makes an estimate of crime levels based on interviews with members of the public, suggested total crime fell 11 per cent to 7 million incidents.

The CSEW also painted a contradictory picture of violent crime, suggesting an 11 per cent fall.
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flogger said:
And clearly you don't understand the math



Except that we are over 40 times less likely to be shot of course



Given you have the highest incarceration rates and the highest police deaths per capita recorded anywhere in the developed world that claim does not even bear the most cursory of examinations
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why should we care about what a foreign subject has to say about our laws

I shot in a pistol match last night

won it-beating 51 out of 51 other shooters in the main event and beating 8 of 9 in the other match

You cannot do that in your nanny state
 
TurtleDude said:
why should we care about what a foreign subject has to say about our laws
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You don't

I shot in a pistol match last night

won it-beating 51 out of 51 other shooters in the main event and beating 8 of 9 in the other match
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I'm happy for you

You cannot do that in your nanny state
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Nor would the vast majority want to
 
Somerville said:
Aw, you're so cute!! :roll: Is quote mining seen as an essential aspect of conservative 'rebuttals'?

from the linked Telegraph article

and
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You beat me to it :wink:

I love how they try and paint us as somehow far more violent than the US yet they incarcerate 5 times the number we do per capita and have a police officer shot and killed every week on average ! The last time a copper was shot here was three years ago if memory serves
 
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TurtleDude said:
why should we care about what a foreign subject has to say about our laws

I shot in a pistol match last night

won it-beating 51 out of 51 other shooters in the main event and beating 8 of 9 in the other match

You cannot do that in your nanny state
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Yeah, you must be right and this website is just a front for some group that wants to take away British chances at competitive shooting

British Shooting
 
Somerville said:
Yeah, you must be right and this website is just a front for some group that wants to take away British chances at competitive shooting

British Shooting
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Having shot for the USA I am familiar with British competitive shooting

there is ZERO pistol shooting by civilians in England.
 
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