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Shot NYPD cop dies

Nonsense. statistically removing the criminal element, I am in no greater danger than you.

The studies I linked prove otherwise

Furthermore, if I live in such a dangerous society and we should ban guns, perhaps after you get them out of the hands of the criminals killing each other, we can open a dialog.

You'll never do that whilst you make it so easy for them to aquire them. Under your insane system they can just send out their wives and girlfriends to 'legally' buy them for them

if the wolf is knocking at my door as you seem to imply, why the **** would I give up my gun?

Have you had a problem with such 'wolves' then ? I suspect you grossly exaggerate your fear of crime over the reality of it in attempting to defend the indefensible

I broke my promise not to argue gun control on the internet, these have all been addressed and dealt with over and over again, I won't waste my time debunking or putting into perspective this hoplophobic statist propaganda.
Tell that to the relatives of the young officer needlessly killed in the OP

Being huge in the gun culture myself, from being in the military, a contractor a tactical firearms instructor, to a moderator on the largest carbine forum on the internet, why is it, I can't recall this nonsense ever happening to any of the thousands of people I am acquainted with?

I'm a Falklands war veteran myself with two tours in N Ireland too. Your national statistics speak for themselves

* Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.(1) This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.(2)

* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"—a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.(3)

* Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.(4)

Even the gun crime stats for the best state in the US are far worse than those of any other developed country

* Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nation’s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."(5)

* Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That’s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.(6)

Lets look at some facts instead

Gun deaths in children: Statistics show firearms endanger kids despite NRA safety programs.

Not sure how that changes my point. *shrug*

You were trying to smear me as some rich white guy from an affluent part of England that didn't know any better. I explained that I wasn't
 
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Have you had a problem with such 'wolves' then ? I suspect you grossly exaggerate your fear of crime over the reality of it in attempting to defend the indefensible



I have no fear of crime, everything I posted so far would lead the rational to conclude as such. I have guns, because I ****ing want them, and as a free man, it is my natural right if I so choose.

Tell that to the relatives of the young officer needlessly killed in the OP


I'll leave the emotional anecdotal alone, thank you.


I'm an ex Falklands war veteran myself with two tours in N Ireland too. Your national statistics speak for themselves

Wonderful for you. Doesn't change anything I said.


Even the gun crime stats for the best state in the US are far worse than those of any other developed country


your ignorance is astounding.

Criminals target each other, trend shows - USATODAY.com

What do I really care what criminals are doing killing other criminals?


furthermore with the advent of the 3d printer, how do you propose keeping guns out of peoples hands? (well except for cops and the government of course who have never killed people!) /facepalm

Lets look at some facts instead

slate? i've posted contradictory facts backed up by federal data.

You were trying to smear me as some rich white guy from an affluent part of England that didn't know any better. I explained that I wasn't


Not even sure how your socio economic status in the UK makes you a gun control expert in the United states. *shrug*


I was simply pointing out you live in a rich english area, far far away from the United states and you don't want to see the truth behind the statistics because you are anti-gun... well no, you are pro-gun in government hands, but not the peoples. We fought and won a war over, partially that, so there's that....
 
I have no fear of crime, everything I posted so far would lead the rational to conclude as such. I have guns, because I ****ing want them, and as a free man, it is my natural right if I so choose.

Freedom is not defined by having the greatly increased facility to kill or be killed . Thats more like the promotion of fear and paranoia

furthermore with the advent of the 3d printer, how do you propose keeping guns out of peoples hands? (well except for cops and the government of course who have never killed people!) /facepalm
Agreed firearms nuts will always try and find new ways to circumvent regulation. We haven't seen such firearms here yet but thats not to say that we might yet

slate? i've posted contradictory facts backed up by federal data.
And all the info in my link was sublinked to its source material

Not even sure how your socio economic status in the UK makes you a gun control expert in the United states. *shrug*
You brought it up I didn't

I was simply pointing out you live in a rich english area, far far away from the United states and you don't want to see the truth behind the statistics because you are anti-gun... well no, you are pro-gun in government hands, but not the peoples. We fought and won a war over, partially that, so there's that...

I guess I'm just against the promotion of needless death masquerading as something it isn't . I'm funny about that
 
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Freedom is not defined by having the greatly increased facility to kill or be killed more easily. Thats more like the definition of fear


your fear is your problem, not mine.


Agreed firearms nuts will always try and find new ways to circumvent regulation. We haven't seen such firearms here yet but thats not to say that we might yet

hoplophobes will always try to blame criminal activity on legal gun owners.

I guess I'm just against the promotion of needless death. I'm funny about that

Then where is your call for a ban on cars doing more than 25mph?

or buckets of water?

Football?

Ladders? Stairs?

swimming pools?

beer?

tobacco?



Why no consistency?
 
I must apologize, this isn't the tread to hammer back at someone with an anti-gun agenda. I won't be responding to you on this in this thread again. my bad,
 
your fear is your problem, not mine

Of course its yours. I do not have to fear being shot but you do

hoplophobes will always try to blame criminal activity on legal gun owners.

Criminals often buy guns via non criminal friends or girlfriends who acquired them for them and did so by quite legally exercising their 'rights' in the first place . How else do you think they got them ?

Then where is your call for a ban on cars doing more than 25mph?

or buckets of water?

Football?

Ladders? Stairs?

swimming pools?

beer?

tobacco ?

When you can tell the difference between what is an accident and what is an armed intent to violently kill perhaps ?

Why no consistency?

On the contrary I've been quite consistent
 
When you can tell the difference between what is an accident and what is an armed intent to violently kill perhaps ?

Is it your belief that deaths in the US are not examined, investigated and that very thing not determined?

If so, you would be 100% wrong.
 
Is it your belief that deaths in the US are not examined, investigated and that very thing not determined?

If so, you would be 100% wrong.

How you came to such a wayward interpretation of my post is a total mystery :roll:
 
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How you came to such a wayward interpretation of my post is a total mystery :roll:

Lursa didn't interpret anything, it was a question to you, denoted by the "Is it your belief" in the very start of the sentence....So, maybe it is a total comprehension thing going on with you...Allow me to ask YOU a question also....

HAS anyone forced you to own a gun, be around others that own a gun, or sanction owning a gun? If no, then as someone who believes in the freedom, indeed the right to own a gun in our country, I'd say your pretty safe from any trouble stemming from guns...Your fear is irrational, and maybe needs some professional guidance....
 
HAS anyone forced you to own a gun, be around others that own a gun, or sanction owning a gun? If no, then as someone who believes in the freedom, indeed the right to own a gun in our country, I'd say your pretty safe from any trouble stemming from guns...Your fear is irrational, and maybe needs some professional guidance....

Well I have fired and been fired at during my armed service if that counts :cool:

The ability to kill and therefore in turn be killed with much greater facility is not an interpretation of freedom that anyone outwith the US would recognise or want to indulge. Your nations example is the obvious reason why. Disguising your armed paranoid fears of each other by calling it freedom is therefore quite laughable frankly
 
It's been pointed out to you time and time again that the vast majority of gun deaths/injury occur in very specific high crime areas. And that such incidents are very low in the rest of the country. Yet you ignored this and *choose* to post....whether you understand it or not I cant tell....that this rate of harm occurs evenly everywhere.

It does not. The example someone gave you were of many things that could be hazardous yet they are common and people dont demand they be removed from the country. And guns harm less people, outside of those criminals inside high crime areas, than pools, cars, dogs, etc.

So my question was, do you think that *we* dont know the circumstances between the gun incidents in this country? We do...it is you that cant seem to understand it.
 
It's been pointed out to you time and time again that the vast majority of gun deaths/injury occur in very specific high crime areas. And that such incidents are very low in the rest of the country. Yet you ignored this and *choose* to post....whether you understand it or not I cant tell....that this rate of harm occurs evenly everywhere.

And its been pointed out to you multiple times that the US is not the only nation with high crime areas. Its just that our criminals find it far harder to kill either each other or innocent victims for that matter because its so difficult to get a gun

It does not. The example someone gave you were of many things that could be hazardous yet they are common and people dont demand they be removed from the country. And guns harm less people, outside of those criminals inside high crime areas, than pools, cars, dogs, etc.

Yes and old age kills even more every year too ! :roll: Look up the difference between accidental death and intentional killing then get back to me

So my question was, do you think that *we* dont know the circumstances between the gun incidents in this country? We do...it is you that cant seem to understand it.

Oh you know all right. Your desperation to protect guns first and people second (at whatever cost that represents to your society in lives lost) is quite apparent
 
And its been pointed out to you multiple times that the US is not the only nation with high crime areas. Its just that our criminals find it far harder to kill either each other or innocent victims for that matter because its so difficult to get a gun

Yes and old age kills even more every year too ! :roll: Look up the difference between accidental death and intentional killing then get back to me

Oh you know all right. Your desperation to protect guns first and people second (at whatever cost that represents to your society in lives lost) is quite apparent

You are the one that doesnt understand the difference between accidental and intentional. No one cares if criminals kill each other....our goal would be to change those areas into safer, low crime, more socio-economically successful areas and then the gun issue will recede there just like it is not an issue ANYWHERE else in the country.
:doh

The foolishness that does not RESPECT humans enough to allow them to protect themselves but instead be dependent on others is what is very sad. Treat people like children and they never advance beyond that. THe more responsibility you take from people, the less they will ever initiate to take for themselves. America was founded on people who could and wanted to take care of themselves.
 

You are the one that doesnt understand the difference between accidental and intentional. No one cares if criminals kill each other....our goal would be to change those areas into safer, low crime, more socio-economically successful areas and then the gun issue will recede there just like it is not an issue ANYWHERE else in the country.
:doh

And how are you ever going to do that when all the criminal has to do in order to perpetuate his criminality is send out a non criminal friend or relative to buy a gun for him ?

The foolishness that does not RESPECT humans enough to allow them to protect themselves but instead be dependent on others is what is very sad.

Our relative gun death rates are the clear indicators of who the foolish are and I know you don't like looking at those

Treat people like children and they never advance beyond that. THe more responsibility you take from people, the less they will ever initiate to take for themselves. America was founded on people who could and wanted to take care of themselves.

What a weird perception you have of the world that you think that owning a gun makes you a more rounded and responsible person when by every measurable statistic it means the exact opposite.

Gun deaths in children: Statistics show firearms endanger kids despite NRA safety programs.
 
And how are you ever going to do that when all the criminal has to do in order to perpetuate his criminality is send out a non criminal friend or relative to buy a gun for him ?

Wow. It was pretty clear. You dont go after the guns, you FIX the socio-economic situations of the people and communities. That is the most constructive approach, and helps solve many socio-economic issues, not just gun issues. Boy are you myopic. No wonder you cant see big picture, including the diversity of conditions across a very large country.
 

You are like a broken record and I'm not going to continue enaabling it. Many people have posted here that this is no different than the same harm that comes from pools and dogs and lesser by far than car injuries and deaths.

What, you get to the end of your argument and just start all over? :doh

No further response is needed, just go re-read what's been posted to you.
 
Our relative gun death rates are the clear indicators of who the foolish are and I know you don't like looking at those

The foolishness that does not RESPECT humans enough to allow them to protect themselves but instead be dependent on others is what is very sad. Treat people like children and they never advance beyond that. THe more responsibility you take from people, the less they will ever initiate to take for themselves. America was founded on people who could and wanted to take care of themselves.
........
 
Wow. It was pretty clear. You dont go after the guns, you FIX the socio-economic situations of the people and communities. That is the most constructive approach, and helps solve many socio-economic issues, not just gun issues. Boy are you myopic. No wonder you cant see big picture, including the diversity of conditions across a very large country.

You did not answer my question. Do you think you are the only country with socio economic problems ?
 
You are like a broken record and I'm not going to continue enaabling it. Many people have posted here that this is no different than the same harm that comes from pools and dogs and lesser by far than car injuries and deaths.

What, you get to the end of your argument and just start all over? :doh

No further response is needed, just go re-read what's been posted to you.

If you won't even open the links I endlessly provide for you then stop wasting my time. :roll:
 
Undoubtedly had the criminal not found it so easy to access a firearm in the first place this officer would still be alive today :(

everyone knows that men who are willing to kill a police officer would be disarmed if the penalty for having an illegal gun was just a little more severe
 
If you won't even open the links I endlessly provide for you then stop wasting my time. :roll:

we really don't care what disarmed subjects in a foreign nation think of our gun laws. It appears you are still mad that 240 years ago we were better shooters than your redcoats
 
we really don't care what disarmed subjects in a foreign nation think of our gun laws. It appears you are still mad that 240 years ago we were better shooters than your redcoats

Oh gawd ..... It will be 'we saved your ass in WW2' next :roll:
 
Oh gawd ..... It will be 'we saved your ass in WW2' next :roll:

you have never explained why you fixate on gun issues. we get the fact that your cowardly society decided to engage in a collective bed wetting when ONE nutcase killed a bunch of children. Your country's pathetic response was to punish all the other handgun owners. That makes lots of sense.

now you all seem upset that we can own pistols and you cannot.
 
you have never explained why you fixate on gun issues. we get the fact that your cowardly society decided to engage in a collective bed wetting when ONE nutcase killed a bunch of children. Your country's pathetic response was to punish all the other handgun owners. That makes lots of sense.

now you all seem upset that we can own pistols and you cannot.

and the UK's murder rate is lower than the US's
 
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