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Shot NYPD cop dies

How so? If the murder rate is general is the same (I assume lower?, im having some trouble finding stats) we can assume that they would find another weapon in lieu of a gun. It would be fair to assume that the rate of katana related murders is higher in Japan, this doesnt mean that the presence of Katanas makes Japan inherently more dangerous. And of course all of this is assuming that all the guns in the U.S would magically disapear once a ban was imposed, which given the U.S´s highly organized traddition of organized crime would appear somewhat unlikely.

Thats been studied as well-in many countries, most gun deaths are actually suicides, and when countries around the world banned guns, it was found that other methods were instead used.
 
Or perhaps a very different entertainment media ?

Well, lets test that. If we go back to even before radio or television, the US still had higher murder rates, and most of the plays/books/etc up to that point were contemporary with europe.

So I dont think thats the case.

Now there IS a problem with "parents" (often mom off working and dad not in the picture) where entertainment holds much more power than is necessary. And those kids have a harder time with empathy, compassion, responsibility, etc. But I dont think thats unique to the US.
 
Statistically many orders of magnitude greater risk than police forces of any other developed country though



Statistically small, if I need a million and I have one, and you tell me you will help me by doubling what I have or giving me 100 times what I have, that's a magnitude as well.


Also you take out those with criminal records and we are as low as any other nation. (most homicides involve criminals on criminals.)
 
Well, lets test that. If we go back to even before radio or television, the US still had higher murder rates, and most of the plays/books/etc up to that point were contemporary with europe.

So I dont think thats the case.

Now there IS a problem with "parents" (often mom off working and dad not in the picture) where entertainment holds much more power than is necessary. And those kids have a harder time with empathy, compassion, responsibility, etc. But I dont think thats unique to the US.

The fact that more than three quarters of the output of Hollywood or your TV dramas involve gunplay in one form or another coupled with easy access to many of the guns often featured must certainly have a major psychological effect for many though. The glorification of gun violence as entertainment cannot be right and by dint of its saturation exposure must ultimately take its toll in the real world
 
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Also you take out those with criminal records and we are as low as any other nation. (most homicides involve criminals on criminals.)

Yes I suppose if you remove the major symptoms of your gun culture the figures can be bent to look better. The thing is we have criminals too and because of our culture they are a good deal less lethal
 
The fact that more than three quarters of the output of Hollywood or your TV dramas involve gunplay in one form or another coupled with easy access to many of the guns often featured must certainly have a major psychological effect for many though. The glorification of gun violence as entertainment cannot be right and by dint of its saturation must ultimately take its toll in the real world

Well, I was raised watching many of those violent movies, played violent video games, and outside of a single fight in high school have never so much as laid a hand on another person. One reason for that is because I can separate reality from fiction. I dont know of any (real, not from a magazine) study to suggest that watching violent programming leads to more violence, if you have a link I'd love to see it.

But like I said, the higher rates of violence existed before television/movies/internet and continue to today, so its unlikely to be causative.
 
Suicide attempts are far more likely to be successful using a gun. Suicide is also three times more likely to be attempted if a gun is in the home

Gun access tied to greater suicide, murder risk: study | Reuters

And yet suicide is already illegal in most places. Its almost like people who intend to kill themselves might select a definitive technique. Tragic but thats the world.

And it still does not address my point above-that when guns were banned (with suicide being a prompting factor) overall suicide rates did not drop-they just found other means.
 
Well, I was raised watching many of those violent movies, played violent video games, and outside of a single fight in high school have never so much as laid a hand on another person.

Good for you

One reason for that is because I can separate reality from fiction.

What about those who can't or more worryingly won't ? You have certainly had plenty of those

I dont know of any (real, not from a magazine) study to suggest that watching violent programming leads to more violence, if you have a link I'd love to see it.
There you go

Early Exposure to TV Violence Predicts Aggression in Adulthood

Violence in the Media

But like I said, the higher rates of violence existed before television/movies/internet and continue to today, so its unlikely to be causative.

For most it won't be but for some it will. Add easy access to firearms into the mix after that and you have a society where homicide becomes 5 or 6 times more likely than in other developed countries
 
And yet suicide is already illegal in most places. Its almost like people who intend to kill themselves might select a definitive technique. Tragic but thats the world.

I'm sure people aren't worried about the legality of what they are doing when they choose to commit suicide

And it still does not address my point above-that when guns were banned (with suicide being a prompting factor) overall suicide rates did not drop-they just found other means.

The study I linked disagrees. Here is another

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/
 
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Good for you



What about those who can't or more worryingly won't ? You have certainly had plenty of those


There you go

Early Exposure to TV Violence Predicts Aggression in Adulthood

Violence in the Media



For most it won't be but for some it will. Add easy access to firearms into the mix after that and you have a society where homicide becomes 5 or 6 times more likely than in other developed countries

The study you cited showed a slight correlation. Heres another... JAMA Network | JAMA Pediatrics | Short-term and Long-term Effects of Violent Media on Aggression in Children and Adults

However, thats a pretty weak relationship by medical research standards, because even if it exists (lets say it does), its still not the magic bullet to pin the blame on. And like I said, higher rates were around before tv/movies-in the UK guns were prevalent at one time and yet the violence rate was still lower. So what other factors do you suggest?
 
Yes I suppose if you remove the major symptoms of your gun culture the figures can be bent to look better. The thing is we have criminals too and because of our culture they are a good deal less lethal


I had a feeling this was the angle you were shooting for. Instead of blaming people you blame an object.


also IIRC wasn't the collection of crime statistics in the UK severely inadequate at best?


I won't begin to tell you how your island nation should handle it's subjects and guns, but here in the US, I'll keep my guns, thank you.

Not a criminal so, statistically, I have about as much a chance as you getting shot these days. *shrug*
 
The study you cited showed a slight correlation. Heres another... JAMA Network | JAMA Pediatrics | Short-term and Long-term Effects of Violent Media on Aggression in Children and Adults

However, thats a pretty weak relationship by medical research standards, because even if it exists (lets say it does), its still not the magic bullet to pin the blame on. And like I said, higher rates were around before tv/movies-in the UK guns were prevalent at one time and yet the violence rate was still lower. So what other factors do you suggest?

Citing your own study

Although observing violence may increase aggression in the short term for adults and children, long-term effects are most likely to occur for children. Consequently, children need the most protection from repeated exposures to violence. Infrequent exposure is not likely to produce lasting consequences, but parents particularly need to be urged to protect their children against the kinds of repeated exposures that heavy play with violent video games or immersion in violent TV programs is likely to produce.

That doesn't sound like 'very weak' corellation to me
 
I agree, just like violent criminals who by definition dont follow the law or respect rights dont follow gun laws.

Yet they find it so much easier to far more violently blight your society given such easy access to firearms
 
I had a feeling this was the angle you were shooting for. Instead of blaming people you blame an object.

Where did I do that ?

also IIRC wasn't the collection of crime statistics in the UK severely inadequate at best?

They have been using the same methodologies since 1981 with todays crime figures being at historic lows since then

I won't begin to tell you how your island nation should handle it's subjects and guns, but here in the US, I'll keep my guns, thank you.
Why risk your family by doing so ?

Not a criminal so, statistically, I have about as much a chance as you getting shot these days. *shrug*

No statistically you are about 40 times more likely to be shot than I am
 
*Sigh*...Well, I see the point you're making now, perhaps next time you could clue the rest of us on and try to refrain from generalizing like that? Fair enough?

I wrote another piece in another post I don't feel like looking for, but the fact that black culture won't let us forget they are black is certainly part of the problem. Basically what I wrote is that people don't understand the difference between racism and discrimination. Very few cops are racist, but almost everyone discriminates. Ironically the Sci-Fi channels "Through the Wormhole" offered some evidence to what I wrote a few days later with this show:

Are we all bigots that showed that cultural sterotypes help define our subconscince, and when looking at a black man in a hood holding a cell phone (for example) we are ALL more likely to see a gun, including other black people (this was demonstrated by experiment).

There is work to be done on both sides, cops need to clean themselves up. Ironically popular black culture is simultaneously embracing and exploiting violent culture and, simultaneously falling victim to it.

Does that let cops off the hook? of course not, but it should help people understand behavior motivations for discimination, rather than racial motivations.

No, it certainly doesn't let bad cops off the hook, any more than it ought to let bad citizens off the hook, but the left isn't focusing on blacks who burn down their own homes and loot their own stores, they only pay attention to bad cops, specifically bad white male cops. Bad female cops, they ignore. Bad black cops, they make excuses for. The fact remains that poor blacks make up an inordinate number of criminals. They aren't being discriminated against, they are simply more apt to commit more crimes. It isn't being black that makes them that way, it's the culture that they choose to buy into, a culture that not only permits this kind of anti-social activity, but actively promotes it, but the second anyone suggests that they are a large part of the problem, huge portions of the left scream racism and discrimination. They do not want to deal with the actual problem. The one thing that remains in all of these cases, it is the black man that was engaged in criminal activity before they came to the attention of police. Had they not done that, had they been law abiding citizens in the first place, chances are excellent that nothing bad would have happened to them. Cops, even bad cops, do not often just grab random bystanders out of a crowd and beat them. Yet this is something liberals never bring up, in fact, when it is brought up, they shout it down because it doesn't fit in with their narrative.

That's a problem.
 
Citing your own study

Although observing violence may increase aggression in the short term for adults and children, long-term effects are most likely to occur for children. Consequently, children need the most protection from repeated exposures to violence. Infrequent exposure is not likely to produce lasting consequences, but parents particularly need to be urged to protect their children against the kinds of repeated exposures that heavy play with violent video games or immersion in violent TV programs is likely to produce.

That doesn't sound like 'very weak' corellation to me

Any scientist, let alone a lawyer could pick that apart. To make the leap from a correlation to causation is exceedingly difficult, and you are basing this off of one study. Im not denying a correlation exists (at least in these 2 studies), Im saying its not as simple as saying this correlation exists, therefore its to blame, especially in light of other facts.
 
Yeah its silly. IIRC in the case of the uzi, the father (a physician) was helping his son shoot a full auto uzi for the first time and it whipped around and hit the boy. Horrible-in every way-but a freak accident. Abusus non tollit usum.

The case I remember was a young boy firing a full auto gun, losing control and shooting the range instructor. I'm sure this kind of thing happens all the time though because people make poor life choices.
 
Any scientist, let alone a lawyer could pick that apart. To make the leap from a correlation to causation is exceedingly difficult, and you are basing this off of one study. Im not denying a correlation exists (at least in these 2 studies), Im saying its not as simple as saying this correlation exists, therefore its to blame, especially in light of other facts.

Psychological studies by their very definition cannot be empirically based however having 3 academic studies (one of which disseminated the results from 14 others) coming to broadly similar conclusions is fairly compelling.
 
The case I remember was a young boy firing a full auto gun, losing control and shooting the range instructor. I'm sure this kind of thing happens all the time though because people make poor life choices.

It only happens 'all the time' in the US though.

Internationally most people don't need it explained to them why putting any kind of firearm into the hands of a child might not be a good idea under any circumstances
 
Psychological studies by their very definition cannot be empirically based however having 3 academic studies (one of which disseminated the results from 14 others) coming to broadly similar conclusions is fairly compelling.

Lets be honest, you and I both spend about 3 minutes with google-hardly compelling and I say this as a scientist. Any scientist or lawyer would say the same-and NO Im not citing the lawyer because they are scientific authorities.
 
Lets be honest, you and I both spend about 3 minutes with google-hardly compelling and I say this as a scientist. Any scientist or lawyer would say the same-and NO Im not citing the lawyer because they are scientific authorities.

Well I've presented the relevant studies so I guess it just depends what you'd rather believe then
 
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