• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Shot NYPD cop dies

But if gun ownership rates (legal or otherwise) were the key factor here one would expect to see more of a correlation. For example, Switzerland, where gun ownership is compulsory for men of conscriptable age, would (according to your logic) have a higher rate of officers being shot then the United States. On the contrary most common form of gun related death in Switzerland is wives killing abusive husbands with their own guns, and i cant say i will lose any sleep over that.

The real issue in the U.S is social inequality.

As a gun owner I'm going to interject and say that the culture of switzerland cannot be compared to the US. Gun crazy culture here in the US has run wild. I doubt you'll read many stories of children shooting Uzi's and killing themselves or others while there parents and certified instuctors look on...

Boy shoots self in head as father and brother watch

Girl loses control of Uzi kills instructor teaching her to shoot it.

So while I support firearm ownership, gun crazy culture here in the US is insane and cannot in anyway be compared to the Swiss IMO.
 
As a gun owner I'm going to interject and say that the culture of switzerland cannot be compared to the US. Gun crazy culture here in the US has run wild. I doubt you'll read many stories of children shooting Uzi's and killing themselves or others while there parents and certified instuctors look on...

Boy shoots self in head as father and brother watch

Girl loses control of Uzi kills instructor teaching her to shoot it.

So while I support firearm ownership, gun crazy culture here in the US is insane and cannot in anyway be compared to the Swiss IMO.

As a gun owner you dont know your basic facts. When you remove psych issues and drugs, our firearm violence rate is comparable with western europe, except they dont have the rights we do.

You made the claim that gun culture has "run wild". Care to back that up? Who defines that?
 
Good Lord people would be protesting in the streets constantly. That's not why people have been protesting in the recent cop/suspect killings and abuse cases.

And of course I dont believe it was justified.

and what was the reason then?
 
The police abuse and killing of suspects....most of which they believe are racially based.

thanks for your answer.

So you don't believe the killing of the LEO was justified, why not protest? Doesn't his life matter? I can agree there are a few bad apples in law enforcement. Those LEO's should be held accountable.

That said it is pathetic the lack of outcry for the outright murder of the NYPD LEO. There should be an outcry for the people who burned down businesses, destroyed private property, and looted others places.

If "lives matter" it should not be held to well all lives matter.

There is no excuse for the murder that took place.
 
As a gun owner you dont know your basic facts. When you remove psych issues and drugs, our firearm violence rate is comparable with western europe, except they dont have the rights we do.

You made the claim that gun culture has "run wild". Care to back that up? Who defines that?

Do you think it's a good idea to let children shoot Uzi's? No matter what your answer is, you've lent more credence to my argument.

To you're first point, I din't make claims about the violence rate, I'm talking about gun owners who believe their right to own, carry and use any firearm they want is god given and they cannot be taken away. Now, I know this will be hard for a lot of people to process given what i just said, but I'm not anti gun, I'm pro responsibility. The idea that it's a law that you have to properly label and store pesticides, hazardous chemicals and explosives, but you can leave your loaded weapon next to your front door with kids around, is to me, insane, but even more insane is if the kids shoot themselves or someone else, that the owner of that firearm isn't culpable in some way is beyond insane. Now I'll grant you, that's my opinion and I thought when I said that the first time it would be obvious.
 
thanks for your answer.

So you don't believe the killing of the LEO was justified, why not protest? Doesn't his life matter? I can agree there are a few bad apples in law enforcement. Those LEO's should be held accountable.

That said it is pathetic the lack of outcry for the outright murder of the NYPD LEO. There should be an outcry for the people who burned down businesses, destroyed private property, and looted others places.

If "lives matter" it should not be held to well all lives matter.

There is no excuse for the murder that took place.

Do we protest every death? I dont. I would wait until I saw if the justice system worked.

Seems like it is so far, on his behalf. And I havent excused his murder.

Also seems like you're a little hysterical right now. Cuz there was little that made sense in your post. Accustory hyperbole, yes.
 
Do you think it's a good idea to let children shoot Uzi's? No matter what your answer is, you've lent more credence to my argument.

To you're first point, I din't make claims about the violence rate, I'm talking about gun owners who believe their right to own, carry and use any firearm they want is god given and they cannot be taken away. Now, I know this will be hard for a lot of people to process given what i just said, but I'm not anti gun, I'm pro responsibility. The idea that it's a law that you have to properly label and store pesticides, hazardous chemicals and explosives, but you can leave your loaded weapon next to your front door with kids around, is to me, insane, but even more insane is if the kids shoot themselves or someone else, that the owner of that firearm isn't culpable in some way is beyond insane. Now I'll grant you, that's my opinion and I thought when I said that the first time it would be obvious.

Who is arguing that the right to guns being inalienable means kids should shoot uzi's and have guns left out next to them? How would the owner not be culpable for that? Its certainly the law where I am.

Is this what you meant by "run wild"?

BTW-a semi auto uzi with strict supervision is easy to control and mild on the recoil-there are worse choices for kids-but ALL involve adult supervision.
 
What makes you think thats unique to the US ?



The reality is nothing of the sort despite what I know you'd like to believe. The relative murder and incarceration figures I mentioned earlier rather speak for themselves. Its your society that has far deeper issues than ours

PS. I visit the US regularly and over the years have witnessed the alarming rise in levels of destitution even in nominally affluent cities like San Francisco. Your solution just seems to be locking up ever more desperate citizens in ever greater numbers sadly. :(

It's happened to about every liberal-run city in the US.
 
Why did your people allow that?

Allow it? British Empire waves hello and so does their position of power in the creation of the EU. Kinda like how Americans needs to wave back to NAFTA and realize it took 50 years for the EU to form.. and North America is going through the same steps. NAFTA, SPP, and arguments of a North American passport.
 
But if gun ownership rates (legal or otherwise) were the key factor here one would expect to see more of a correlation. For example, Switzerland, where gun ownership is compulsory for men of conscriptable age, would (according to your logic) have a higher rate of officers being shot then the United States. On the contrary most common form of gun related death in Switzerland is wives killing abusive husbands with their own guns, and i cant say i will lose any sleep over that.

The real issue in the U.S is social inequality.

Yes social inequality is probably the major factor, (though even Switzerland has gun killing rates eight times those of the UK) and there seems little political will to address it.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1064595818 said:
I see you mention no reason to blame or hold the criminal accountable. Let me guess, you're a liberal?

Oh I certainly do not condone the act. Its the ease with which it could be expedited that I take issue with. And no I am not a liberal
 
It's happened to about every liberal-run city in the US.

This is an issue of far too fundamental a nature for the future existence of your society for it simply to be used for the usual tedious political points scoring. You dismiss this at your peril
 
Yes social inequality is probably the major factor, (though even Switzerland has gun killing rates eight times those of the UK) and there seems little political will to address it.

If you focus only on gun killings I could understand your position, if you focus on general safety in society, that argument holds zero water.

Switzerlands intentional homicide rate is 0.6 versus 1.0 for UK.
 
Last edited:
Versus 4.7 for the US where nearly three quarters of homicides are by firearms

I'm so glad Mexico has strict gun control laws. That way there certainly aren't a lot of shootings in Mexico. Right?
 
Versus 4.7 for the US where nearly three quarters of homicides are by firearms

Which is the statistic on the macro level, when compared across the country at the micro level comparing rates of gun ownership with violent crime, it's shown there is no statistical relationship between the two.

Regardless you tried to make the claim Switzerland was worse then the UK because of guns, and that was blatantly untrue

The Czech Republic has a gun culture similar to ours that even permits concealed carry by the average citizen with no magazine limits or assault weapon bNs, their rate of homocide is 1.0 exactly the same as yours
 
Last edited:
I thought it was careless typing.
 
Yes social inequality is probably the major factor, (though even Switzerland has gun killing rates eight times those of the UK) and there seems little political will to address it.

I love the way its done with guns somehow makes it worse.
 
I love the way its done with guns somehow makes it worse.

No it just makes it more avoidable. The young officers tragic death in the OP is just more collateral damage done as a consequence of a crazy system
 
Last edited:
I'm so glad Mexico has strict gun control laws. That way there certainly aren't a lot of shootings in Mexico. Right?

I'm glad my country doesn't border the 300 million unmonitored guns of the US too
 
Last edited:
Which is the statistic on the macro level, when compared across the country at the micro level comparing rates of gun ownership with violent crime, it's shown there is no statistical relationship between the two.

Regardless you tried to make the claim Switzerland was worse then the UK because of guns, and that was blatantly untrue

I said Switzerlands gun killing was 8 times that of the UK which is true

The Czech Republic has a gun culture similar to ours that even permits concealed carry by the average citizen with no magazine limits or assault weapon bNs, their rate of homocide is 1.0 exactly the same as yours

And its gun killing rate is seven times that of the UK too.

Just how much better still would these countries overall homicide rates be minus their firearms killings ?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom