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Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

I dont mean you have to respect her-thats not the point at all-my point was you have to defend her. Or are you going to allow a bunch of medieval hayseeds with guns decide that for you?

I have to defend her? Nope.

Now I oppose the government stepping in and preventing her from being a hateful bigot, just as I'd defend the rights of the KKK to hold a rally. But I'll not personally defend her actions as justified or morally acceptable. I'll not pretend that she's blameless in the shootings. The people who attacked the gathering are certainly guilty, and no amount of hate is justification for their actions. But failing to blame her for inciting the situation is no better than making excuses for the terrorists.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Understand, No one is saying that the government should step in and prevent her from holding these events. No one. That's what it means to have free speech. It means that the government will not forcibly prevent you from speaking.
Exactly.

No one has stifled Ms. Geller's speech.

She's carrying on a private war with Islamic extremists.

(and why anyone would want to go to that level, is beyond me)
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Have you heard her speak before? She's anti-islamist. Anti terrorist. Pro womens rights. This was a demonstration of freedom of speech, which she's absolutely able to do as a free citizen. Even if you dont like it-if you are a defender of the 1st you have to defend that at least.

What message were they trying to communicate by having an entire conference dedicated to drawing the prophet Mohamed?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Geller is an antagonist, provocateur and trouble maker. She isn't pressing any free speech issue. Hope she got what she was looking for this time.

It sounds like everybody got what they wanted. Cartoons were drawn, somebody won the contest, and to Muslims died for their cause. Sounds like a happy ending in Texas.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Sorry, it doesn't end there. Your actions don't magically become morally justified because someone else’s aren't.

Ask yourself this. Would there have been a gathering to draw the prophet if it wasn't highly offensive to Muslims? Obviously not. This isn't someone expressing an opinion. This is someone deliberately antagonizing someone else. Yes, those that retaliate are 100% wrong, but so are worthless people who attended and organized it.

sounds to me like you are judging the retaliators on a basis of legality and the insitigators on a basis of morality....
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Insulting someone else for the sole purpose of provoking a retaliation that you can demonize isn't defending free speech. It's being human garbage while hiding behind the flag.

Sounds like every LGBT rally ever.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

sounds to me like you are judging the retaliators on a basis of legality and the insitigators on a basis of morality....

Correct.

Geller did not break any laws. But you don't have to break laws to be a terrible person..
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

When you support speech you agree with you're not supporting free speech. You're simply supporting an idea you agree with. Though I’m confused as to why you would willingly give your full support to a hate filled bigot.

Understand, No one is saying that the government should step in and prevent her from holding these events. No one. That's what it means to have free speech. It means that the government will not forcibly prevent you from speaking.

But this does not mean that anyone else has to respect her, it does not mean that anyone else has to condone her hatred, and it does not mean that the rest of us are barred from saying that she's culpable.



Please read that again.

One you are saying no one should prevent her from staging these events, but then you rail at her "hatred" as though you know it's hatred.

How is she "culpable"? How is she to blame [Meriting condemnation, censure or blame, etc] for exercising her right? Is it because YOU disagree with the content?

That's your problem, she's exhibiting her "art" and you don't like the content, like the big row over the painting of two men kissing some years ago.

Free speech is free speech, it's there for everyone, including your friends the terrorists.

I guess in your "liberal" world, free speech is only available to those with a message that is not "culpable"

Well, **** that. In this country everyone can say what they need to say without fear of people showing up with machne guns, and if they do, THEY are the ones in the wrong.

We have come to the point that the same people issuing death threats over ****ing pizza now side with terrorists.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Sounds like every LGBT rally ever.

Sidenote: This post is a great example of why the GOP isn't going to have a successful presidential candidate for many years.

Rally 1: People gathering to express pride in who they are, and to show the public at large which didn't accept them that they do in fact exist.
Rally 2: People gathering for the sole purpose of performing acts designed to anger another group.

And you can't tell the difference.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

I don't expect her to discontinue her senseless inflammatory antics in the name of free speech that fools none of us, not even you. But I see in your bigoted hate, you'll use the free speech crutch as she is.

he's well within his rights to use his free speech as a crutch... even if it is speech you don't like.

just as you are free to use your speech to speak in opposition to his speech.

all of us should defend the right to say what we will, as we will....especially the stuff we don't like to hear or that we disagree with.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Insulting someone else for the sole purpose of provoking a retaliation that you can demonize isn't defending free speech. It's being human garbage while hiding behind the flag.

Please show evidence that she deliberately provoked. that s a highly biased remark and there is no evidence to back it up and is in NO WAY a defense.

If so, Rosa Parks should have been shot.

The United States was founded on the principle of freedoms, the first ever country to do so. It has a history like no other through upheaval leading to reform.

By your standards every ****ing peace demonstrator could have been shot with the glowing pride of today's left. She is making a dramatgic statement that you disagree with. And because of that you erode the sanctity and purpose of the concept.

If I have to fear a reaction to my message, you have mob tyranny, that's what you're supporting.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Sorry, it doesn't end there. Your actions don't magically become morally justified because someone else’s aren't.

Ask yourself this. Would there have been a gathering to draw the prophet if it wasn't highly offensive to Muslims? Obviously not. This isn't someone expressing an opinion. This is someone deliberately antagonizing someone else. Yes, those that retaliate are 100% wrong, but so are worthless people who attended and organized it.
Yes, she was 'deliberately antagonizing' some Muslims but why not? We 'deliberately antagonize' Republicans, Democrats, abortion people and pro-life, Christians and Atheists and so it goes. If you want to remove Muslims from the list of groups who cannot be 'antagonized' you should be prepared for groups to be added to that list some time in the future. Or will your list of those who should not be offended only include Muslims?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

I don't expect her to discontinue her senseless inflammatory antics in the name of free speech that fools none of us, not even you. But I see in your bigoted hate, you'll use the free speech crutch as she is.
"I've seen no evidence of 'bigoted hate' from US Conservative. Do you have an example?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Complete and utter BULL. You don't get to claim to be a defender of free speech until you've defend the rights of someone else to speech you disagree with.

The defenders of free speech are the Islamic clerics who defended her right to be a bigot. Geller is a deliberate antagonist that's justifying her hate under the guise of free speech.

Yes, she has a constitutional right to say what she says. And the rest of us have a constitutional right to say that she's human garbage who's partially responsible for what happened.
That's it exactly. And no one is going too threaten you, or attempt to murder you, for voicing this opinion.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Please read that again.

One you are saying no one should prevent her from staging these events, but then you rail at her "hatred" as though you know it's hatred.

How is she "culpable"? How is she to blame [Meriting condemnation, censure or blame, etc] for exercising her right? Is it because YOU disagree with the content?

That's your problem, she's exhibiting her "art" and you don't like the content, like the big row over the painting of two men kissing some years ago.

Free speech is free speech, it's there for everyone, including your friends the terrorists.

I guess in your "liberal" world, free speech is only available to those with a message that is not "culpable"

Well, **** that. In this country everyone can say what they need to say without fear of people showing up with machne guns, and if they do, THEY are the ones in the wrong.

We have come to the point that the same people issuing death threats over ****ing pizza now side with terrorists.

First, back off.
I didn't issue any death threats over pizza, nor have I sided with any terrorists.

Second. I'm not the federal government. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Nor does it excuse you from the consequences. I'm saying that she LEGALLY has the right to hold such events. I'm also saying that she's partially to blame for what happened.

Hypothetically, say that an employee of the facility was hurt or killed during the shooting. They would a decent case against Ms Geller for engaging in behavior which exposed them to unnecessary danger.

Flip the situation. Say that a bunch of Muslims organized protests outside of a synagogue to say that the holocaust didn't happen and that Israel should be removed from the face of the earth. Now say that some of the people inside the synagogue attacked the protesters. Would the attackers be in the wrong? Certainly. Are the protesters within their legal rights. Certainly. Do the protesters have some responsibility for creating the situation? Of course.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Correct.

Geller did not break any laws. But you don't have to break laws to be a terrible person..

you don't have to be a super nice person to expect not to be targeted for death over your opinions/expressions

I don't agree with her or her positions... but i'll defend her right to voice/express them without fear of violent sanction by govt ....or by another private party.

...just as I defend your right to express your position regarding her here.
if she chose to smack you around over the things you say about her... I wouldn't judge you to be 100% in the wrong... but seemingly, you would.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Are you seriously arguing that women dress nice to taunt rapists?
Geez, man!! It was a Muslim cleric saying that if women don't dress properly they deserve to be raped. If you don't take the time to look at the link you shouldn't bother responding to it.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Sidenote: This post is a great example of why the GOP isn't going to have a successful presidential candidate for many years.

Rally 1: People gathering to express pride in who they are, and to show the public at large which didn't accept them that they do in fact exist.
Rally 2: People gathering for the sole purpose of performing acts designed to anger another group.

And you can't tell the difference.

What does any of this have to do with Republicans?

But yes, I can tell the difference. It seems however, that you can not admit that you can too.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Yes, she was 'deliberately antagonizing' some Muslims but why not? We 'deliberately antagonize' Republicans, Democrats, abortion people and pro-life, Christians and Atheists and so it goes. If you want to remove Muslims from the list of groups who cannot be 'antagonized' you should be prepared for groups to be added to that list some time in the future. Or will your list of those who should not be offended only include Muslims?
I'm not giving muslims any special treatment. I'd condemn any speech geared only towards pissing someone else off.

I can also defend your legal right to do hate speech, without absolving you from blame for the consequences.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Geez, man!! It was a Muslim cleric saying that if women don't dress properly they deserve to be raped. If you don't take the time to look at the link you shouldn't bother responding to it.

Why would I agree with a muslim cleric?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Exactly.

No one has stifled Ms. Geller's speech.

She's carrying on a private war with Islamic extremists.

(and why anyone would want to go to that level, is beyond me)

Her and everyone there had their speech curtailed when two ISIS terrorists with guns and bombs decided to crash the party.
 
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