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Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Thrilla said:
wearing short skirts has been argued to be a justification of rape...the analogy fits this scenario pretty well.

drawing Mohammed may incite anger in the same way a short skirt incites sexual thoughts.... neither justify an unlawful response, though... in both cases, the victim is 100% innocent of wrongdoing.
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It isn't analogous. Simply walking around in a short skirt is not an invitation for sex. Insulting a religion is literally offensive. Nothing remotely close about the two.
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas [W:439, 529]

Grant said:
Yes, it's a given that when anyone is critical of Islam violence may occur. If that wasn't the case Muslims would be the butt of jokes everywhere.

But in fact Islamic violence and intimidation should not be allowed to silence anyone and that issue must be addressed. Pamela Geller is one of a handful of people in this world who dares stand up against these religious nutcases and she deserves credit for doing so.

You can let yourself be silenced through threats and intimidation, and ignore the violence being committed against Gays, women, heretics, and so on, but don't expect everyone else to follow in your shaky footsteps.
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I agree completely. I am in no way condoning the silencing of people due to intimidation. I think that if you want to draw Allah with a bomb wrapped head gear go for it. If Muslims attack they should be stopped or killed. But if you draw that picture for the sole purpose of pissing off Muslims you are contributing to the problem. There really is no need to draw those pictures...
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Blemonds said:
Sorry, but it's your side blaming the victim. Some things never change
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I blame the attacker for the violence. The cartoon lady is not a victim... she is an inciter. I blame her for inciting.

My side is realism. You should join it.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
It isn't analogous. Simply walking around in a short skirt is not an invitation for sex. Insulting a religion is literally offensive. Nothing remotely close about the two.
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Look, the 1st amendment isn't for general topics that we all relate to - those discussions need no protections. The 1st amendment was created to protect the fringe discussions where people do not agree and where government may, had the 1st not been added to the Constitution, take retribution on those fringes. The way I see thrilla's analogy is from the perspective of "they were asking for it". In that way, it is analogous. However - it's irrelevant. Purposeful speech that incites anger is still protected speech in this case.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

US Conservative said:
Her and everyone there had their speech curtailed when two ISIS terrorists with guns and bombs decided to crash the party.
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Couch it anyway you like, but it sure sounds to me like picking a fight - then claiming you've been attacked once you've succeeded.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
It isn't analogous. Simply walking around in a short skirt is not an invitation for sex. Insulting a religion is literally offensive. Nothing remotely close about the two.
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Sure it is, especially in the context of Islam.

Do you think a Woman walking around in a short skirt on the streets of Saudi Arabia would get ignored ?

Or arrested ?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Ockham said:
Look, the 1st amendment isn't for general topics that we all relate to - those discussions need no protections. The 1st amendment was created to protect the fringe discussions where people do not agree and where government may, had the 1st not been added to the Constitution, take retribution on those fringes.

Purposeful speech that incites anger is still protected speech in this case.
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I agree with that the point is that she not discussing religion she is purposely trying to piss people off. Her drawings are protected but it is still done to be offensive. That is all.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Fenton said:
Sure it is, especially in the context of Islam.

Do you think a Woman walking around in a short skirt on the streets of Saudi Arabia would get ignored ?

Or arrested ?
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We are not talking about Saudi Arabia... We are talking about freedom of speech and expression in the United States. Want to try again? ;)
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

TurtleDude said:
MIght as well lure them into the open where they can be dealt with as in this case rather than waiting for them to pull another 9-11?
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Hey, why not re-double or triple the effort & see if we can get a bunch more converted!

Maybe we can attract thousands more, if we try hard enough!

Have a real war, you know?

I'm sure we'll get a lot more of them than us, and last one standing wins, right?

/needless to say, I'm left speechless (except for the above) by your suggestion
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

CRUE CAB said:
Well there are two dead jihadists now.
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...and if they had killed innocent people in the area first? THAT, is the point.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
It isn't analogous. Simply walking around in a short skirt is not an invitation for sex. Insulting a religion is literally offensive. Nothing remotely close about the two.
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read my words again... I said nothign of an "invitation for sex".. those are your words, not mine.

insulting a religion is offensive, sure... but people are free to do so without fear of being killed or otherwise assaulted.

there's nothign remotely close about the two for you.. others aren't having a difficult time comprehending the analogy... just the few that want so badly to show that these people had it coming to them.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Chomsky said:
Hey, why not re-double or triple the effort & see if we can get a bunch more converted!

Maybe we can attract thousands more, if we try hard enough!

Have a real war, you know?

I'm sure we'll get a lot more of them than us, and last one standing wins, right?

/needless to say, I'm left speechless (except for the above) by your suggestion
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Why? When you have an enemy that is hiding in the shadows it's a good idea to try to lure them out in the open. The idea here is that it's easier to eliminate an enemy that is out in the open then the ***** that is hiding in the damn bushes and attacks you when you least expect it.
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
...and if they had killed innocent people in the area first? THAT, is the point.
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in that case, some of us would still blame the violent extremists, and you guys would still blame the group holding the event.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Blemonds said:
I understand that Geller has plans to hold another free speech event. In the words of Sarah Palin, it's time to reload
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Why don't you put your money with where mouth is and go to a mosque and start drawing some pictures?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Fenton said:
Do you think a Woman walking around in a short skirt on the streets of Saudi Arabia would get ignored ?

Or arrested ?
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Obviously, you are right in this example.

But there are also more progressive countries (euro, predominately) that look aghast at our views & laws concerning prostitution, drugs, public nudity & the death penalty - so we do have to be careful about how & where we toss stones.
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Thrilla said:
in that case, some of us would still blame the violent extremists, and you guys would still blame the group holding the event.
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I don't debate people who misrepresent positions... I repeatedly said that the extremists are to blame for the violence. Care to change your statement or are we done?
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Chomsky said:
Obviously, you are right in this example.

But there are also more progressive countries (euro, predominately) that look aghast at our views & laws concerning prostitution, drugs, & the death penalty - so we do have to be careful about how & where we toss stones.
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Unfortunately for him that example is irrelevant to the discussion.
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
I don't debate liars... I repeatedly said that the extremists are to blame for the violence. Care to change your statement or are we done?
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awww.. you can lie about what i say, but i can't lie about what you say?... that's not very fair.
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
I don't debate liars... I repeatedly said that the extremists are to blame for the violence. Care to change your statement or are we done?
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C'mon, you know the racket. Even saying what Geller's group was doing was legal yet kinda prickish and that violent response was wrong means you're absolving the attackers.
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Bodhisattva said:
I agree with that the point is that she not discussing religion she is purposely trying to piss people off. Her drawings are protected but it is still done to be offensive. That is all.
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What really puzzles me is how so called enlightened liberals/progressives worldwide, somehow think it morally ok for those at Charlie Hebdo to draw cartoons and be martyrs for the cause, but it's not ok for Pam Geller. :blink:
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Thrilla said:
read my words again... I said nothign of an "invitation for sex".. those are your words, not mine.

insulting a religion is offensive, sure... but people are free to do so without fear of being killed or otherwise assaulted.

there's nothign remotely close about the two for you.. others aren't having a difficult time comprehending the analogy... just the few that want so badly to show that these people had it coming to them.
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I never said they had it coming to them and what is "asking to be raped" when wearing a short skirt if not an invatation for sex that is refused by the female who is in turn raped? Your analogy makes even less sense now than it did before...
 
Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

MickeyW said:
What really puzzles me is how so called enlightened liberals/progressives worldwide, somehow think it morally ok for those at Charlie Hebdo to draw cartoons and be martyrs for the cause, but it's not ok for Pam Geller. :blink:
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I think Charlie Hebdo was stupid to do what they did as well... nobody deserves to die and free speech should be protected but that does not make it any less stupid.
 
Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

Kobie said:
C'mon, you know the racket. Even saying what Geller's group was doing was legal yet kinda prickish and that violent response was wrong means you're absolving the attackers.
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Not at all. The two are separate. Doing something stupid, purposely drawing offensive pictures, is stupid and inciting violence. They are to blame for that but not for the violence... that is 100% the attackers fault. Putting a hand grenade in a childrens park is stupid especially if you know that there are people that want to pull the pin out there that will do it.
 
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