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City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

This isn't other cases and her campaign promise to " be tough on Police brutality " instead of protecting the Law abiding citizens and bringing investment back to a City that is desperate for it just means things in that city will continue to devolve )

Fenton this isn't an argument you want to have with me.

This is a clear cut case of police in Baltimore suspecting someone of a crime and then arresting that person when no crime was committed. It's also a case of Baltimore police violated department policy.

In the Baltimore area (city and surrounding counties) there have been 99 deaths in police custody over the last 5 years. Roughly 20 a year. While at the same time the City of Baltimore has paid out $5.7m in cases which have contained police brutality during that same period. In those cases not one police officer was ever arrested or charged for their actions.

Her job is not bring money to the city but to protect law abiding citizens. Police can be criminals too. This is a case where those accused are police. That's it.


She and too many of the residents have bought into this blown up manufactured narrative that every inner city Police force is corrupt and and racist and something needs to be done about.

Sorry, Fenton.. there have been exposé about BCPD. Fact, I linked such one. There is also a long history of deaths in custody of BCPD.

Baltimore ( and other inner city areas ) is the product of decades of Democrat rule and policies that lead to crushing poverty, dependance, corruption and crime.

That is your opinion, not fact. You are making a judgement on Baltimore without knowing exactly how Baltimore works. Baltimore doesn't have a "inner city" in which it's poverty, dependance and crime lay. Rather in Baltimore it's inner city is the wealthy area with Inner Harbor, Camden Yards, Bolton Hill, Charles North, Market Place, and UMBC. Those areas have had hundreds of millions (more like a $1b plus but Ravens and Orioles are paying down their loans for their Stadiums) in the last 30 years. It's where 90% of the money goes. Failed attempts in the past to throw money to build homes in Sandtown backfired because the city build homes and lots of them but people were leaving that area.

Baltimore's issue has always been since MLK riots of 1968.. was lack of jobs and business fleeing the city. Then to combat that issue.. Baltimore started getting "tough on crime" Giuliani style. Then began relying more and more on DoJ and other Federal funding so they sought higher arrest numbers. So thousands and thousands were arrested for some stupid ****.. In fact 600,000 arrest were made in a city of 620,000 during 1 year under Martin O'Malley. Being arrested, just arrested mind you, will harm your ability to get a job because it's considered part of your criminal record. So if you are arrested for "trespassing" or "jay walking".. it could easily cost you a job in Maryland. It wasn't until 2007 Maryland addressed BCPD and the City of Baltimore's policy of arresting just to arrest. But the damage was done. You have a large part of population who couldn't and still can't get a job because of it. That has a snowball effect.
 
Unfortunately its the residents of Baltimore that the Democrats claim to care about the most who suffer under these Political monopolies.

And I don't disagree there is a portion of that here.

They have a Mayor who allowed rioters to destroy their neighborhood and a Mayor that told her Police force to stand down and then went and hid behind Al Sharpton instead of answering questions.

Anyone who watched that video of those High Schoolers pelting the Police with bricks and chunks of concrete and comes away thinking that Police brutality is the primary problem in that community is a friken moron.

Pushing false narratives about Police brutality while almost 40 percent of Baltimores residents are unemployed, while the drop out rate is nearly 40 percent and the average level of education is a 8th grade education does nothing but lead to more destruction and more economic blight for the residents that live there.

And this is why you don't want to argue with me on this. In the last 47 years Baltimore has become a city with a strong working class to a "welfare" city in large part due to Maryland and Baltimore policing policies in which it doesn't matter if you are convicted or not but rather that you were arrested.

It stays on your record. You can expunge your record but it costs so much you can't afford it. This can cost you jobs because of background checks which leads to a dead end street of welfare and slinging drugs.

It's time to wake up and realize the State (city, state and federal) has policies in which slave people to the system and that very State will always beat you down. You are nothing but a vote which can be bought with a promise and the promises hasn't changed in 50 years.

So I absolutely understand why there was riots in Baltimore and I absolutely understand how the system is against them. How it took this reaction to get Media to pay attention. God knows the media didn't pay attention to the 109 deaths in policy custody from 2010 to 2014 in Maryland of which 90% happened around Baltimore and it's surrounding counties.

But hey.. if you wanna debate this with a white guy who's a libertarian and knows Baltimore in and out damn well. Go ahead and try.
 
I didn't quote him, I just said he as a different take on the case.

As for Banzhaf he's against smoking as one of his pet peeves, and other atavist issues, but better he than atavist judges. However here he speaks out what the prosecutor is going to have to prove to get a conviction and for the most part I agree with what he said.

I take it you don't agree, thus you believe it's a slam dunk to convict all 6 of these officers.

I never said it was a slam dunk. Some charges will stick. Some won't. Just like in every other case in the justice system. Hell even Sandusky wasn't conviction on all counts.
 
You know what?, F* the inner city liberal hell holes. Cops should draw back and let them live the liberal life. One of deadbeats and government dependents.
 
Oh hell no.

you are right, there are lots of cases where blacks riot over a black mope dying allegedly due to the police violating the laws or rights of the suspect. Like the mope in Fergunson who was a legitimate shoot.
 
Something that was reported on CNN earlier is that apparently for the past couple of decades there have been other deaths, severe spinal injuries, etc., that the city has had to pay big settlements for, many injuries almost exactly like Gray's. The new AG's first order of business was to investigate these cases of "rough rides" that apparently the Baltimore police are famous for. One guy paralyzed from the neck down in a wheelchair, says he was also hogtied on the floor of the police van as it zigged, zagged, force stopped and peeled rubber, throwing him all over the metal interior, and severely injuring his spinal column. Sound familiar?

As the AG investigated these and other allegations, she had her own investigators out on the street watching and reporting on certain incidents. The Gray incident was supposedly one of them, which gave her information from sources much earlier, so she didn't have to wait for the preliminary report. Hence, the fast action.

Also, anyone who saw that route the van took as it turned left, right, left, right in a circle until it was right back where it started knows that something is very weird. The police station was a couple of blocks straight south of the corner where Gray was arrested; the hospital a couple more blocks south, all in a straight line. By the time they had run this convoluted course all over the place, they ended up right back at the damned police station, where Gray was finally sent to the hospital.

Somebody has got some explaining to do, and calling a legal pocket knife a "switchblade" on an "official" police report declaring that as probable cause is just not cutting it. I supported the Ferguson police officer, because the evidence at the scene supported every detail on his official report. This... this reeks of decades of falsified police reports, false arrests, abuse of authority, and who knows what else.

I don't care if this new AG has her sites set on a future governorship or the whitehouse, if she can clean up that ****hole's police department, more power to her.
 
This is a clear cut case of police in Baltimore suspecting someone of a crime and then arresting that person when no crime was committed.
When did this become "clear cut?" Is it not the case that we've got one group of people saying he was carrying an illegal knife, and another group saying the knife he was carrying was legal?

It's also a case of Baltimore police violated department policy.
A policy that was apparently three days old, and in which officers were notified somewhere in a large email. If the policy was so important, I don't know that the officers deserve all or even most of the blame for why it wasn't followed.
 
that's fine

you going to be the first volunteer?

you get 45k annually.....for putting your life on the line daily
As I stated, the guys in my city are making a far-cry from $45K - six figures+ is the norm here, with a substantial number well above $100K. Even the 'burbs are doing $70-90K for experienced patrol officers, and of course higher for sarges, lieutenants, specialists, dicks, and other higher ranking personnel, of which there's a fair amount. There's also a substantial amount of overtime (at time & a half), including paperwork back at the precinct and court time, not to speak of benefits & pensions in the top several percent in the country - they have no problems getting a huge turnout for the exam far above those selected.

But for those locales that may be as low as $45K, do we walk on the constitution, urinate on the flag, an shat on citizens rights because of low funding? If qualified individuals cannot be found due to low salary it seems the right thing to do is increase the salary, not reduce the constitutionality of those policing! Accepting poor police performance due to low pay would seem to be one more structural flaw that needs fixing, if true.

dont make a mistake....they arent allowed
When an individual is entrusted with the use of criminal arrest & lethal force, yes we should make sure he is pretty damn good in his judgement & execution of his duties - no different than an airline pilot, ironworker, train engineer, electrical power lineman, etc.

oh, and the best part.....most of the people you will be responsible for looking after, absolutely hate you, and everything you stand for
When most the people "absolutely hate you, and everything you stand for" there are extremely serious structural & cultural failures that need to be addressed, no?

but you are going to sign right up.....right?
I'm past the age of enlistment, but my 18 y.o. son is giving the PD a serious look since many of his HS buddies are the kids of PD - but giving fodder to your argument, I'm lightly nudging him to FD (same pay & bennies) for all the negatives you mentioned along with a few great FD specific bennies, but if he were to chose PD I'd be proud as ----. Many oh his buddies are going to follow their old man and uncles to PD, though - it's pretty much in their DNA coming from cop families (and from going to a big-time cop & FD private school).
 
When did this become "clear cut?" Is it not the case that we've got one group of people saying he was carrying an illegal knife, and another group saying the knife he was carrying was legal?

It was clear cut.
Hell it was clear cut the moment the police check his pockets and didn't find a switch blade but a folding blade. The position of those saying he was carrying an illegal knife is because you also have an illegal dentition and thus subject to what is kidnapping.


A policy that was apparently three days old, and in which officers were notified somewhere in a large email. If the policy was so important, I don't know that the officers deserve all or even most of the blame for why it wasn't followed.

Doesn't matter. A policy is a policy. It makes the whole department culpable and "heads" should roll from the top down over it.
 

It was clear cut.
Hell it was clear cut the moment the police check his pockets and didn't find a switch blade but a folding blade. The position of those saying he was carrying an illegal knife is because you also have an illegal dentition and thus subject to what is kidnapping
So... again, we have one side that says the knife was legal, and another side that says it is illegal. We don't know that the police searched his pockets and didn't find a swichblade. Might be true, but that's conjecture on you part. There is nothing "clear cut" yet as to whether or not he was wrongfully arrested.

[Most switchblades are folding blades, btw.]

Doesn't matter. A policy is a policy. It makes the whole department culpable and "heads" should roll from the top down over it.
Lol - of course it matters. A policy is not a policy if no one knows about it.
 
You don't get out much, I take it. Many police have been charged and convicted for crimes committed while on duty.
Perhaps, but not in relation to those that face no or reduced consequences. In my large metro area I haven't seen many prosecutions in relation to the large number that seem to walk or only take a minor hit from pretty some egregious acts. There does appear to be structural problems in the whole political/judicial/enforcement sphere, from the mayor's office to the DAs to the FOP to the judges to the criminal & operations code as it applies specifically to police officers.

It's been very hard to get prosecution & conviction compared to the vast majority that seem to get 'swept under the rug'. But that does seem to be slightly changing in my city too, but very slight - a really nasty example of a misjustice involving a police shooting homicide where the officer walked occurred just the other day though, so there's still a long way to go.

Source: Al Jazeera America - Judge finds Chicago police officer not guilty in fatal shooting

Check out the legal logic to let this guy (who was upset some young people woke him up late one night) walk, and please note it's a CPD in a Cook County courtroom facing charges prepared by the Cook County DA's office in (this is important --->) a bench trial.

The judge rules the copper beats Involuntary Manslaughter because the act of pointing a gun & shooting it is "assumed to be intentional", therefore he's not guilty of Involuntary. The judge then comments the correct charge should have been murder. Due to the 'double jeopardy' rule, the officer cannot be charged correctly with murder - he walks, keeps job, pension, etc.

Is there any doubt the fix was in?
 
They will.

They're just overcharging them and no way they'll get 2cnd degree.

For one now you have contradicting reports from the Medical examiner who yesterday reported that there was no evidence that Gray died during his arrest or at the hands of the Police in the back of the Van.

Today, homicide with a long list of charges.

The ME, to be fair does not make the homicide charge. Just the cause of death. It was the PA who is making the homicide charge.

My guess she is blowing smoke. As in this case the murder charge would be classified as infamous and she would not want a grand jury.
 
So... again, we have one side that says the knife was legal, and another side that says it is illegal. We don't know that the police searched his pockets and didn't find a swichblade. Might be true, but that's conjecture on you part. There is nothing "clear cut" yet as to whether or not he was wrongfully arrested.

No, we have the Prosecuting AUTHORITY in Baltimore saying it was a legal knife.
So it's 100% true. Can't dispute the facts and facts were it was a legal knife. But even further Police didn't have probable cause in the first place to search him. Running is not a crime.

[Most switchblades are folding blades, btw.]

All switchblades are Spring assisted knives. Not all folding knives are switchblades.


Lol - of course it matters. A policy is not a policy if no one knows about it.

No, if it was sent in an email, printed out or discussed at briefings before patrol and signed off by Police Commissioner.. it's a policy. ALL of which happened. So you can muddle the truth with your own made up facts but doesn't fly here.
 
As someone that spent a year on ride-a-longs with the police (I wanted to be a cop) I saw my fair share of overly physical treatment. I saw people treated like scum and often used as a tactic to get people angry so they could be searched and/ or arrested. Again, I don't think that what happened in Baltimore is indicative of the majority of arrests across the US, but I would say that it happens far more often than it should.
So after that, do you still want to be a cop?
 
used to be a very sought out profession

cops were heralded as professional dedicated guys and gals

now....no way in hell

especially in any urban area.....let it burn

Have police officers changed or has the public?
 
I'm glad the officers involved are being held accountable. But... and it's a big one... arrest is one thing, conviction is another. Most police officers who are actually arrested and go to trial are acquitted, regardless of the circumstances. Look at those Fullerton police officers who repeatedly tazed a handcuffed, mentally disturbed man, then beat and kicked him to death. Every bone in his face was fractured. His face was completely black, unrecognizable, and the size of a watermelon. Almost all of the incident was caught on video, witnessed by dozens of people... yet they were acquitted, even in the face of indisputable evidence that they had literally murdered a handcuffed man.

My main fear is that if... or when... these officers are acquitted, last week's riot in Baltimore will look like mere foreplay to the explosion of violence that will be unleashed. I truly hope they have a bulletproof case, but even if they do, events in Fullerton reveal that isn't enough to get convictions against police officers who have clearly abused their authority.

So you are saying the jury system does not work, is that right?
 
All six officers have been charged. Now it goes to Grand Jury. As I read over the charges those are some pretty high charges for someone to be charged with and with that comes proof some pretty high proof they are warranted.
•Officer Caeser B. Goodson, Jr. was charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, two counts of manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.
•Officer William G. Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
•Lt. Brian W. Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Officer Edward M. Nero charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Officer Garret Miller charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Sgt. Alicia White involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Warrants have been issued for the arrest of the officers.

But what if they can't prove the level of the charges against these officers? What if the Grand Jury can't justify such charges and throws the case out for some or all? What is that going to do for those who have already made up their mind the officers are guilty of the crimes they have been charged with? Will that cause an uproar of burn the bitch down again?

How many people died in this incident?
 
Blind partisanship led to Darren Wilson being declared guilty by a Mob of rioters and uninformed protesters .

Its whats diverts attention away from the REAL and Substantial issues that affect these inner city communities and places all of it on nonsense like " out of control " Police brutality.

Blind partisanship is why the Obama administration responded to the Ferguson debacle by writing up a " How not to be a racist Police Officer " list instead of pointing out that unemployment, poverty and crime is disproportionately higher in these inner city areas than anywhere else.

Blind partisanship is how people can walk aroud holding signs that say " Black Lives Matter " after suspected Police brutality while they ignore the large amount of black on black violence that exist in neighborhoods like Baltimore and Chicago.

Blind partisanship is you or anyone else judging these Officers as guilty before they've stepped in a court of law.

So your definition of "blind partisanship" is "Democrats." Figures, sadly. Sadly, the "party of personal freedom" and the people who are always saying we need guns to defend our freedom are totally fine with citizens being killed by police.

Instead of "black lives matter," how about "Citizens' lives matter?" Sadly, you'd be against that too. Unless of course, a Republican started it.
 
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This was a purely political act. Depraved heart, really? Because they didn't put on a seat belt. She is an absolute disgrace. More like Depraved Democrats.

This is the problem. You don't know why she charged the officers like she did.

That will come out with time.
 
While I agree the Duke case was a sham, the circumstances here are much different. A man has died in police custody. The only question is did he kill himself was his death an accident or was there malice involved.

I look forward to seeing more evidence.

Did anybody here see the video of Gray being loaded into the van?

He was being dragged like his legs were already paralyzed.

We need to know more about what happened and when before we make guesses on the outcome of this case.
 
He makes some good points.

How exactly did the Officers kill Freddie Gray without literally touching him ?

Second degree murder ? Yea right. These charges are simply an attempt to appease to the people who bought into all of this " hands up dont shoot " BS.

To calm down a community that was one assumption away from full on riots.

If you cut the brake lines on a car and the driver dies, you would still be guilty of murder, even though you didn't touch the person.
 
Wow!

This is big.

I was initially shock upon this announcement, since it so rare for the police to be held criminally accountable, but now am ebullient because I believe we may have finally turned the corner on the lack of police accountability and the eroding of our civil rights with the prosecution of cases like this & the Slager-Scott murder in South Carolina.

Hopefully this long painful slide of our eroding rights and police criminal immunity has hit a bottom - I do sense a change in the air.

The police have a difficult job, and it just got tougher and I feel for them, realizing a lot of their problems are cultural & structural

But no one should be above the law - a criminal act is a criminal act. And no one should violate our constitutional rights, including that of due process. ESPECIALLY our civil servants sworn to uphold the law!

And I would hope that our good brethren peace officers realize that when they turn their back on the crimes of their fellow officers in their deeds & documentation, that they too will be held liable including criminally, and they act accordingly by doing the right thing in breaking the code of blue silence. They may not have much choice anymore (hopefully), and that's a good thing. At the least they will be forced to think through their actions & inactions.

Use of Force
Citizen Complaints about Police Use of Force
 

No, we have the Prosecuting AUTHORITY in Baltimore saying it was a legal knife.
So it's 100% true. Can't dispute the facts and facts were it was a legal knife. But even further Police didn't have probable cause in the first place to search him. Running is not a crime.
Wow, you really haven't a clue what you're talking about. The prosecutor claims the knife was legal therefore it's 100% true because she's the authority...

Are you nuts???

No, if it was sent in an email, printed out or discussed at briefings before patrol and signed off by Police Commissioner.. it's a policy. ALL of which happened. So you can muddle the truth with your own made up facts but doesn't fly here.
Oh, I think it's quite clear who has been making up facts in this thread. And now we have a couple more to add to the "Freddie Gray was hogtied" claim.
 
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