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City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

JoeTrumps said:
CNN is talking her up like she's MLK and Lincoln wrapped into a single person. I predict by tomorrow she will be on a short list to be Hillary's running mate.
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Why do you think she is bringing charges.
 
Samhain said:
Based on the charges and the attorney's description of events, I suspect the majority of the charges will be dropped..

Also interesting to note that the attorney references "no justice, no peace". Sounds almost like she stated I made these charges because of the riots.
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My sentiments as well. This case is now becoming similar to the Duke University Lacrosse players case that the prosecuting attorney swore by just to win favor from the black community and to get re-elected. When it was all said and done, the whole case was thrown out because of contrived evidence.
 
Four words - 'Innocent until proven guilty'.

Please remember them.
 
bicycleman said:
My sentiments as well. This case is now becoming similar to the Duke University Lacrosse players case that the prosecuting attorney swore by just to win favor from the black community and to get re-elected. When it was all said and done, the whole case was thrown out because of contrived evidence.
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While I agree the Duke case was a sham, the circumstances here are much different. A man has died in police custody. The only question is did he kill himself was his death an accident or was there malice involved.

I look forward to seeing more evidence.
 
csbrown28 said:
I'm sorry am I the only one that thinks this should NEVER happen?
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Not that I am aware of. Perhaps you missed the very first sentence of the second portion that you quoted?

But moral posturing doesn't really get much support, here. No one feels obligated to celebrate politically correct paeans.

Police intentionally hurting their prisoners as a form of punishment? Does anyone think that abusing prisoners is funny?
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Well, it can be funny. It remains, however, wrong.

Do we want police that take joy in retaliation of those that have been captured to be on our police forces?
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Nope. That sort of thing builds up, like a drug tolerance. Typically it's not the new, inexperienced guys you have to worry about with abuse, it's the experienced guys who have been around the block a few times.

The article seems to suggest that cops know there being watched now and that is, I assume, the reason it happens less. So the malice of the police remains, it's just that they have fewer places to abuse their prisoners with impunity?
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:shrug: they are human, after all. All of our behavior improves when we believe we are being observed v when we are not. The average person is capable of some pretty horrid abuses towards his fellow man when he feels he will face no consequences for it. Better training is also likely partly responsible.

It's interesting to note that the van Mr. Gray was killed in didn't have a camera so how can we really say it happens less often? Did the drive know that (or course he did) and does that explain the officers conduct? I dunno, just asking.
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Baltimore has resisted getting them - something you can bet they are reversing now. It seems to have generally been a poorly run city.
 
Anthony60 said:
It stinks of corruption. I know that can't be, since it's all run by democrats in Baltimore. But there's a small chance.
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LOL! She was just sworn into office 4 months ago. She won against Gregg Bernstein and did so during an election which saw Maryland elected a Republican Governor over Martin O'Malley's attempt to create his own Obama from Maryland (Anythony G. Brown).
 
Fenton said:
One of the Prosecutors largest donors is the attorney for the Family of Freddie Gray and she's married to a City Council member.

Don't you think she should recuse herself ?
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Umm.. same could have been said over other cases which involved lack of charges against cops in other communities. More then like a special prosecutor will be appointed for trial if it gets that far. But she also has to look tough because it was her campaign promise to be tough on police brutality. Not that anybody here followed Baltimore elections.
 
csbrown28 said:
As a person who is critical of police and their tactics, I have to say I agree. I just had this exact conversation with my brother. This is how I would see it play out.

The first line of responsibility is that of the driver. it seems he was primarily responsible and regardless of how his prisoner was loaded it's his responsibility to ensure his safety and he should take the brunt of the blame for what happened.

The officers that loaded him into the van failed to secure Mr. Fray and are certainly in breech of department policy. Assuming that's all they did, involuntary manslaughter seems pretty steep to me. I'm not certain where the assault charge comes from, but if it's as a result of injuries sustained after the van leaves, then I'm not on board with that either.

As for the Sargent and Lt., they are superiors and if they knew Mr. Gray was not properly loaded per department policy then they should be severely reprimanded, but again, I'm just not sure that inv. manslaughter is appropriate here.

Now, if anyone has seen a charging document for a man who commits a robbery, it's not unusual to see a laundry list of charges, most of which disappear and, given the evidence, the worst 2-3 (that can be demonstrated via evidence) stick. So I have little doubt that much of what we're seeing today is tossed out before this is over. I hope there isn't anyone that hopes that they will be charged with all this stuff, because as a critic of police tactics I doubt that's what going to happen, nor do I think, at this time given what I know, that it's right.

I wouldn't be surprised if the severity of the charges and the liberal manner in which they were doled out had something to do with appeasing the natives, but as I said, I don't think it's all that unusual to "throw the book" at an alleged criminal and see "what sticks".

I should add that failure to render/ request assistance is something that some or all of the officers could be charged with, but I have no idea specific scenarios for each.
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They also hog tied him which is a no no as well. It's illegal procedure in all major Police departments.
 
Anthony60 said:
This was a purely political act. Depraved heart, really? Because they didn't put on a seat belt. She is an absolute disgrace. More like Depraved Democrats.
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depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death.

That basically means the cops looked the other way.
 
Chomsky said:
I'm sure that over time NYC could find some good new recruits that want to do their job and do it well, IF the power from the top is willing to lean on them & make it clear the same-old same-old is over. Just like PATCO!

The culture you describe has to be broken. (and hopefully we're seeing the beginning)
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They could find better recruits if they paid more, pay penuts and you end up with monkeys
 
LowDown said:
City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers « CBS Baltimore



The medical examiner ruled it was homicide.

Also, there are charges of negligent homicide, abuse of authority, etc.

It was an unlawful arrest, they claim, and their negligence concerning his safety when riding in the police van resulted in his death. They didn't put him in a seat belt, and he apparently fell in the van and broke his neck.

The charges seem appropriate.
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I don't think medical examiners rule anything a homicide. Medical examiners determine cause of death. The PA claims sufficient evidence to prosecute for the listed crimes. Including homicide. Courts and juries decide the who and what.

As of now, the police have not been charged or tried or convicted.
 
austrianecon said:
Umm.. same could have been said over other cases which involved lack of charges against cops in other communities. More then like a special prosecutor will be appointed for trial if it gets that far. But she also has to look tough because it was her campaign promise to be tough on police brutality. Not that anybody here followed Baltimore elections.
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This isn't other cases and her campaign promise to " be tough on Police brutality " instead of protecting the Law abiding citizens and bringing investment back to a City that is desperate for it just means things in that city will continue to devolve )

She and too many of the residents have bought into this blown up manufactured narrative that every inner city Police force is corrupt and and racist and something needs to be done about.


Baltimore ( and other inner city areas ) is the product of decades of Democrat rule and policies that lead to crushing poverty, dependance, corruption and crime.

Unfortunately its the residents of Baltimore that the Democrats claim to care about the most who suffer under these Political monopolies.

They have a Mayor who allowed rioters to destroy their neighborhood and a Mayor that told her Police force to stand down and then went and hid behind Al Sharpton instead of answering questions.

Anyone who watched that video of those High Schoolers pelting the Police with bricks and chunks of concrete and comes away thinking that Police brutality is the primary problem in that community is a friken moron.

Pushing false narratives about Police brutality while almost 40 percent of Baltimores residents are unemployed, while the drop out rate is nearly 40 percent and the average level of education is a 8th grade education does nothing but lead to more destruction and more economic blight for the residents that live there.
 
Fenton said:
One of the Prosecutors largest donors is the attorney for the Family of Freddie Gray and she's married to a City Council member.

Don't you think she should recuse herself ?
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I think it's very ironic to see the right getting their talking points from a union.
 
austrianecon said:
You may want to look up John F. Banzhaf. Find out who is before quoting him. You wouldn't be caught in the same room as him.
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He makes some good points.

How exactly did the Officers kill Freddie Gray without literally touching him ?

Second degree murder ? Yea right. These charges are simply an attempt to appease to the people who bought into all of this " hands up dont shoot " BS.

To calm down a community that was one assumption away from full on riots.
 
rocket88 said:
I think it's very ironic to see the right getting their talking points from a union.
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Not talking points, its the truth. Unless you can debunk it that is....( I wont hold my breath )

And what Union ?

I didn't go to a UAW website to get that information. Its actually pretty easy to find.
 
Fenton said:
He makes some good points.

How exactly did the Officers kill Freddie Gray without literally touching him ?

Second degree murder ? Yea right. These charges are simply an attempt to appease to the people who bought into all of this " hands up dont shoot " BS.

To calm down a community that was one assumption away from full on riots.
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I agree. The only reason to charge all six officers is to appease the mob. What we are seeing is a smooth transition from abuse by police to prosecutorial abuse. But it is interesting to watch those who denounce the former and praise the latter.
 
Fenton said:
Not talking points, its the truth. Unless you can debunk it that is....( I wont hold my breath )

And what Union ?

I didn't go to a UAW website to get that information. Its actually pretty easy to find.
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Well I'm sure that the United Auto Workers probably doesn't have much to say. I wonder why?

Your assertion is EXACTLY what the police union said. Not just kind of, but almost word for word.
 
rocket88 said:
Well I'm sure that the United Auto Workers probably doesn't have much to say. I wonder why?

Your assertion is EXACTLY what the police union said. Not just kind of, but almost word for word.
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Well in this case the Police union has a point.

Its a glaring conflict of interest and she should recuse herself if its really " justice " and truth thats she's after.
 
This has the earmarks of prosecutorial misconduct--the gross overcharging, the failure to use a grand jury, the haste, the failure even to read the police investigation, and the inflammatory language and tone of her announcement. This woman is a hack who is playing to the lynch mob, no doubt hoping to gain exposure and advance her career. Prosecutors are held to a very high ethical standard, and she fell very far short of it.
 
Fenton said:
Well in this case the Police union has a point.

Its a glaring conflict of interest and she should recuse herself if its really " justice " and truth thats she's after.
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Blind partisanship makes strange bedfellows, huh?

By the way, you should really get on the case of why the United Auto Workers isn't investigating. I smell a conspiracy theory.
 
austrianecon said:
You may want to look up John F. Banzhaf. Find out who is before quoting him. You wouldn't be caught in the same room as him.
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I didn't quote him, I just said he as a different take on the case.

As for Banzhaf he's against smoking as one of his pet peeves, and other atavist issues, but better he than atavist judges. However here he speaks out what the prosecutor is going to have to prove to get a conviction and for the most part I agree with what he said.

I take it you don't agree, thus you believe it's a slam dunk to convict all 6 of these officers.
 
rocket88 said:
Blind partisanship makes strange bedfellows, huh?

By the way, you should really get on the case of why the United Auto Workers isn't investigating. I smell a conspiracy theory.
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Blind partisanship led to Darren Wilson being declared guilty by a Mob of rioters and uninformed protesters .

Its whats diverts attention away from the REAL and Substantial issues that affect these inner city communities and places all of it on nonsense like " out of control " Police brutality.

Blind partisanship is why the Obama administration responded to the Ferguson debacle by writing up a " How not to be a racist Police Officer " list instead of pointing out that unemployment, poverty and crime is disproportionately higher in these inner city areas than anywhere else.

Blind partisanship is how people can walk aroud holding signs that say " Black Lives Matter " after suspected Police brutality while they ignore the large amount of black on black violence that exist in neighborhoods like Baltimore and Chicago.

Blind partisanship is you or anyone else judging these Officers as guilty before they've stepped in a court of law.
 
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