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City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

Do you think this was an isolated incident?

No. Another cop was charged with murder just recently. About 9 cops a year are convicted of murder or manslaughter. That's out of about 388 suspects a year shot and killed (most of whom were white, by the way). link
 
Inb4 at least one of these officers get convicted and some people claim, "They were just convicted to appease the black citizens."

And anyone who would say something like that is ignorant beyond words. Your ears, not your mouth, are your best tools for understanding a situation like this.

/braces for defensive backlash
 
This one is just idiotic, the moron stood up in the back of the van and fell and broke his own neck and it's the police's responsibility for this mans own stupidity? Give me a break.

Yeah, the rule was the prisoner has to be buckled in. Baltimore had a similar case with a guy who did the same thing in a police van. He sued and won a bunch of money from the city. The cops knew better, and because they were (allegedly) negligent the prisoner died. Ipso facto, negligent homicide, although I'm not sure where the prosecutor is getting 2nd degree murder. To charge murder the prosecutor is saying that the police intended to kill Gray. I don't think they'll be able to prove that. The police were indifferent, maybe, but intending to kill? Don't think so.
 
Actually, we've been doing that all along. Many police have been charged and convicted for crimes they comitted in their duties, including murder and homicide.

The problem that we've seen multiple times now is when activists lie and make up claims about police misconduct. It's hard to prosecute a case that's based on lies, and then the people all get upset and tear up their neighborhoods because they think it's an injustice not to prosecute cops who have been falsely charged.

Lean on the police too hard and they will stop policing these neighborhoods. Crime started falling in New York City when David Dinkins started supporting the police and hiring more of them. This process accelerated under Giuiliani and continued with Bloomberg. It will be interesting to see what will happen now that a cop hating mayor has taken over.

Oh, here we go: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ear-to-year-comparison-nypd-article-1.2134509

$1.5 million payout for woman beaten by California cop - CNN.com

So while I admit that this one case is anecdotal, I suspect if I look hard enough I can find plenty of examples..

The CHP officer that beat the 51 year old grandmother on the freeway MMA style was forced to resign.....Forced to resign? Is that justice? Many cops simply take up residence in a new town and start all over.

Shouldn't the officer in this case have been convicted of a crime? (if he was I am genuinely unaware of it) Should he not only been suspended from his job but prevented from becoming a public official anywhere in the US?

Here is another officer paralyzing a man who was wrongly identified as a suspect. The officer was allowed to continue patrolling the streets even though his record showed that he was 6 times more likely to be involved in violent altercations when making arrests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDerqyvUZeQ

Is this every officer? Of course not, but there is way to much of this behavior that is tolerated and there are way to many officers involved in these incidents that get away with crimes simply because they were committed wearing a badge.
 
Anyone who is currently or wants to go into law enforcement, are idiots. The job is dangerous enough without the DOJ and whiny liberals cities and states wanting to imprison you for trying to do a very difficult job.
 
Anyone who is currently or wants to go into law enforcement, are idiots. The job is dangerous enough without the DOJ and whiny liberals cities and states wanting to imprison you for trying to do a very difficult job.

Having a dangerous job doesn't mean that you get to recklessly endanger other's lives or kill people without cause.
 
Anyone who is currently or wants to go into law enforcement, are idiots. The job is dangerous enough without the DOJ and whiny liberals cities and states wanting to imprison you for trying to do a very difficult job.

They volunteer- which I respect - can be a dirty job dealing with the repercussions of some dumb ass societal/Govt polices and the impact on society.
That said, they are paid to enforce the law, not serve justice as they see fit to upon those arrested.
 
Manslaughter seems an appropriate charge. Its interesting that the prosecutors also cited that Gray was arrested illegally since there was no basis for why he was being detained (the knife he was carrying was legal). One cop is going to be charged with 2nd degree depraved heart murder though, but what does that even mean?
 
Good news indeed. It will be interesting if it goes to trial.
 
oh goody. now when the evidence becomes clear(see ferguson) and the officers get off we can all witness an even BIGGER race riot in Baltimore. and the best part is it will all be blamed on ME, the "angry white male".

good times
 

From your link....

“Cops used to laugh about it. That was big in the 1980s and 1990s,” Alpert said. “It was obviously against policy and illegal. I remember in some trainings that police chiefs would say, ‘You’d better bring the damn dog you were trying to avoid if you come in with a prisoner with such an injury.’” Alpert added, “Now a lot of these vans and cars have videos in them. So it doesn’t happen very often.”

Read more at: How Common Are Police 'Rough Rides'? | National Review Online

It’s horrific that this is how cops ever treated people as a matter of common practice or tradition — but it’s also apparently less common, if Alpert’s right, than it used to be, in part because of cameras in vehicles. The Baltimore Police apparently don’t have cameras in their cars, or at least didn’t have one in the vehicle that held Gray. That’s a measure that seems like it would be quite easy to implement and would help stamp out however much of a culture there is of dealing “rough rides.” (Body cameras for cops are often considered such an obvious idea, too, but that idea has stalled in Baltimore over privacy and budget concerns. It’s cheaper and more discreet at least recording what happens in cop cars.)

Read more at: How Common Are Police 'Rough Rides'? | National Review Online

I'm sorry am I the only one that thinks this should NEVER happen? Police intentionally hurting their prisoners as a form of punishment? Does anyone think that abusing prisoners is funny? Do we want police that take joy in retaliation of those that have been captured to be on our police forces?

The article seems to suggest that cops know there being watched now and that is, I assume, the reason it happens less. So the malice of the police remains, it's just that they have fewer places to abuse their prisoners with impunity?

I don't know I'm asking, but that's what the article seems to suggest.

It's interesting to note that the van Mr. Gray was killed in didn't have a camera so how can we really say it happens less often? Did the drive know that (or course he did) and does that explain the officers conduct? I dunno, just asking.
 
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Yeah, the rule was the prisoner has to be buckled in. Baltimore had a similar case with a guy who did the same thing in a police van. He sued and won a bunch of money from the city. The cops knew better, and because they were (allegedly) negligent the prisoner died. Ipso facto, negligent homicide, although I'm not sure where the prosecutor is getting 2nd degree murder. To charge murder the prosecutor is saying that the police intended to kill Gray. I don't think they'll be able to prove that. The police were indifferent, maybe, but intending to kill? Don't think so.

As I understand it, the driver of the police van was the most severely charged. Apparently he checked on Gray numerous times and did not get him medical care, instead he picked up another prisoner. Sounds like depraved indifference at the very least.
 
$1.5 million payout for woman beaten by California cop - CNN.com

So while I admit that this one case is anecdotal, I suspect if I look hard enough I can find plenty of examples..

The CHP officer that beat the 51 year old grandmother on the freeway MMA style was forced to resign.....Forced to resign? Is that justice? Many cops simply take up residence in a new town and start all over.

Shouldn't the officer in this case have been convicted of a crime? (if he was I am genuinely unaware of it) Should he not only been suspended from his job but prevented from becoming a public official anywhere in the US?

Here is another officer paralyzing a man who was wrongly identified as a suspect. The officer was allowed to continue patrolling the streets even though his record showed that he was 6 times more likely to be involved in violent altercations when making arrests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDerqyvUZeQ

Is this every officer? Of course not, but there is way to much of this behavior that is tolerated and there are way to many officers involved in these incidents that get away with crimes simply because they were committed wearing a badge.

The most likely explanation is that what can be proved in civil court may be hard to prove in a criminal trial.

There are just short of a million federal, state, and local sworn officers in the US. Of those ~388 a year (2012) shoot a suspect, and most of the time this is justified. Over a 20 year career the chances that an officer will shoot a suspect are about 0.8%. The chances that a given young man will be shot by any cop over 20 years are about 0.00133%. From this I conclude that the panic over police shootings is not justified.
 
From your link....



I'm sorry am I the only one that thinks this should NEVER happen? Police intentionally hurting their prisoners as a form of punishment? Does anyone think that abusing prisoners is funny? Do we want police that take joy in retaliation of those that have been captured to be on our police forces?

The article seems to suggest that cops know there being watched now and that is, I assume, the reason it happens less. So the malice of the police remains, it's just that they have fewer places to abuse their prisoners with impunity?

I don't know I'm asking, but that's what the article seems to suggest.

It's interesting to note that the van Mr. Gray was killed in didn't have a camera so how can we really say it happens less often? Did the drive know that (or course he did) and does that explain the officers conduct? I dunno, just asking.

It happens more than we wish to admit. Ever wonder how a prison guard can get even with a prisoner?
 
Wha???

Do we work for them? Or do they work for us?

This attitude is exactly the problem!

If our current civil servants will not do their job, do what Reagan did when PATCO pulled the same stunt - fire them & hire someone willing to do the job!

Around here officers are making six figures after 4-5 years on the job, with benefits that our phenomenal compared to the average working Joe, and pensions that most of us can only dream about.

I'm sure that over time NYC could find some good new recruits that want to do their job and do it well, IF the power from the top is willing to lean on them & make it clear the same-old same-old is over. Just like PATCO!

The culture you describe has to be broken. (and hopefully we're seeing the beginning)


that's fine

you going to be the first volunteer?

you get 45k annually.....for putting your life on the line daily

dont make a mistake....they arent allowed

oh, and the best part.....most of the people you will be responsible for looking after, absolutely hate you, and everything you stand for

but you are going to sign right up.....right?
 
Manslaughter seems an appropriate charge. Its interesting that the prosecutors also cited that Gray was arrested illegally since there was no basis for why he was being detained (the knife he was carrying was legal). One cop is going to be charged with 2nd degree depraved heart murder though, but what does that even mean?

One of the Prosecutors biggest Political donors is the attorney for Freddie Gray and she's also married to a City Council member.

She should recuse herself and a independent prosecutor should be brought in.
 
Anyone who is currently or wants to go into law enforcement, are idiots. The job is dangerous enough without the DOJ and whiny liberals cities and states wanting to imprison you for trying to do a very difficult job.


used to be a very sought out profession

cops were heralded as professional dedicated guys and gals

now....no way in hell

especially in any urban area.....let it burn
 
One of the Prosecutors biggest Political donors is the attorney for Freddie Gray and she's also married to a City Council member.

She should recuse herself and a independent prosecutor should be brought in.

I guess that's how they like to run the city of Baltimore. Nice and close that way.
 
When the officers are exonerated, Baltimore will be reduced to ashes.

And good luck finding qualified applicants for that police department moving forward.
 
I got the opinion that the charges were more emotionally based than rationally based.

The three main problems with their conduct were:

1. Improper detainment
2. Not using a seat belt
3. Not rendering aid promptly

All of those are serious for sure, but they don't arise to murder. Negligence, manslaughter, or something lesser for sure. But this is not a murder case. She bit off more than she can win and will likely lose the entire case because she will come off as emotional and vindictive rather than rational and logical.
 
When the officers are exonerated, Baltimore will be reduced to ashes.

And good luck finding qualified applicants for that police department moving forward.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that some Baltimore police are bad cops OR that the cops involved in this situation were negligent in the treatment of someone in their custody? Are you so pro-cop that you just can't conceived of the mere possibility that these policemen did anything wrong?
 
I just heard half of these Officers are black.

" Racist police " !
 
The most likely explanation is that what can be proved in civil court may be hard to prove in a criminal trial.

There are just short of a million federal, state, and local sworn officers in the US. Of those ~388 a year (2012) shoot a suspect, and most of the time this is justified. Over a 20 year career the chances that an officer will shoot a suspect are about 0.8%. The chances that a given young man will be shot by any cop over 20 years are about 0.00133%. From this I conclude that the panic over police shootings is not justified.

So your method is to apply math, show how insignificant the number is and simply disregard because you perceive the number is low enough not to "panic"? The number should be as low is it can be an allow officers to do their jobs and, at the same time, provide the greatest amount of respect to citizens that come in contact with officers. I'm saying that that balance has not been stuck at this point.

Overall violent crimes are dropping, but violence by police is increasing.

Otherwize, I don't take issue with what you've said, but what if he hadn't been grievously injured? That's the question I'm asking. Would we have even heard about this? Maybe maybe not, but if he had just been "roughed up", some black and blue, maybe a fracture, cracked skull, this would have been a non-story. Even if it played in the news, Mr. Gray is just another thug that got what was coming to him. The problem is that to many police believe that that can treat people with disrespect that can ranges from intimidation, to slapping, tugging, frisking (males on females) and all other sorts of behavior. It is this freedom to abuse and disrespect people that attracts the wrong kinds of people to become police officers. Put a camera in every car, put a camera in every van ect and weed out the bad apples.
 
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