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Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport van

Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

That would be ideal, if the locals could be trusted.

At this point we have to let them do their job and we'll see.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

Just giving you a taste of your own medicine
You're delusional if you think that.


Remember, you were the guy saying that Zimmerman's wife had done nothing illegal, which turned out to be completely wrong, so you have a history of jumping to conclusions. Not surprised that you're doing it again here.
1. Irrelevant to this argument.
2. Wrong. Her not fighting the bogus set up does not mean I was wrong. Funny that you do not know that.
3. So your further claims are as irrelevant as they are wrong.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

At this point we have to let them do their job and we'll see.

Don't have a choice, right? Just read an NYT article about the long time dark practice of "rough riding" suspects to the station.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

Gawd, why do people constantly not pay attention?
Don't have a choice, right? Just read an NYT article about the long time dark practice of "rough riding" suspects to the station.
:doh

Again:
Batts said another man who was in the van during the tail end of Gray's ride told investigators that Gray was "was still moving around, that he was kicking and making noises" up until the van arrived at the station. Batts said the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."
Freddie Gray death: Baltimore police prisoner transport under scrutiny - World - CBC News

You do realize that evidence makes the above "rough riding" supposition irrelevant, as the van was operated normally.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

I
Gawd, why do people constantly not pay attention?:doh

Again:
Batts said another man who was in the van during the tail end of Gray's ride told investigators that Gray was "was still moving around, that he was kicking and making noises" up until the van arrived at the station. Batts said the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."
Freddie Gray death: Baltimore police prisoner transport under scrutiny - World - CBC News

You do realize that evidence makes the above "rough riding" supposition irrelevant, as the van was operated normally.

Not sure why we should believe either the police or the other man is this case.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

You're delusional if you think that.


1. Irrelevant to this argument.
2. Wrong. Her not fighting the bogus set up does not mean I was wrong. Funny that you do not know that.
3. So your further claims are as irrelevant as they are wrong.

ROFL unbelievable you don't know when to throw in the towel man! You lose all credibility. And no, it isn't irrelevant, it proves bias and you just set that in stone. You would never be allowed to serve on a jury that had to decide a case like this if they could read your posts on this forum. Feel free to prove me wrong and point to a single post on this forum in which you say that a police officer was wrong about anything from something they said to a person they killed. Anything.

My opinion is wrong yet my opinion is that I will wait for the investigation before making up my mind rather than jumping to conclusions? I don't understand that. Anybody who says they know what happened is wrong and anybody who says they don't know is right. Anything else is speculation, which is perfectly valid unless presented as fact. Therefore you are wrong, which is an objective conclusion derived at by sound logic. To enlighten you, "you're wrong because you're wrong," your claim, is an invalid argument.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

I

Not sure why we should believe either the police or the other man is this case.
There is no reason why we shouldn't.

 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

Put the relevant information together.
He was thrashing around in the back of the van which did not speed, make sudden stops or was driven erratically.
He did this thrashing for the supposed five minutes the other arrestee was in the van.
This thrashing stopped just before they arrived at their destination.
That would indicate that he fatally injured himself at that point in time. Not from or during his resisting arrest.
Which would indicate that it was not caused by the arresting Officers.

I'm just quoting this again because you just posted a video that very explicitly contradicts the account you're proposing here. There couldn't have been "just a little banging" and at the same time constant thrashing. The evidence seems to suggest that he was on the floor of the van with his body hitting the sides when it turned, sped up or stopped. That's all it seems to suggest, not a thing about Mr. Gray trying or not trying to hurt himself. There is no decisive conclusion we can reach from the available evidence.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

ROFL unbelievable you don't know when to throw in the towel man! .
No that would be you again as you are wrong as usual.


You lose all credibility.
Not. But you have none.


And no, it isn't irrelevant,
Yes it is irrelevant.


point to a single post on this forum in which you say that a police officer was wrong about anything from something they said to a person they killed. Anything.
Oy vey! :doh
This is your biased opinion of others speaking.
Two off the top of my head. 1.The Officer shooting at the fleeing van. 2. The Officer shooting the felon with a knife when the felon was not facing the Officer and they were physically separated by the bed of the truck.
Now tuck tail and leave.


My opinion is wrong yet my opinion is that I will wait for the investigation before making up my mind rather than jumping to conclusions?
Not the same opinion and not jumping to conclusions.


I don't understand that.
Of course, you constantly demonstrate this inability.


Anybody who says they know what happened is wrong and anybody who says they don't know is right. Anything else is speculation, which is perfectly valid unless presented as fact.
All you are doing is speaking nonsense here, and demonstrating an inability to differentiate.

Your inability to focus on the topic, but instead focus on me, just says you have no valid argument in rewards to the topic. You fail.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

I'm just quoting this again because you just posted a video that very explicitly contradicts the account you're proposing here. There couldn't have been "just a little banging" and at the same time constant thrashing. The evidence seems to suggest that he was on the floor of the van with his body hitting the sides when it turned, sped up or stopped. That's all it seems to suggest, not a thing about Mr. Gray trying or not trying to hurt himself. There is no decisive conclusion we can reach from the available evidence.
:doh


Apparently you do not understand that when information changes you roll with the changes.

But lets delve into this.
We know what the police tolsd us and what was leaked. No one would expect he would say the same publicly given the charged atmosphere.
So what will matter is what he will say under oath.

So let's say this is the accurate version. And?
He heard a little banging, and told police homicide he heard him bang his head.

That hasn't significantly changed anything.
He was still alive and banging before they got to the station.
Or do you somehow think different?


The evidence seems to suggest that he was on the floor of the van with his body hitting the sides when it turned, sped up or stopped.
No.
You are making things up.

The other release made it clear he was making noise "up until" the van reached it's destination. Which is when the noise stopped.
So no, he would have only been on the floor from that point forward.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

:doh


Apparently you do not understand that when information changes you roll with the changes.

But lets delve into this.
We know what the police tolsd us and what was leaked. No one would expect he would say the same publicly given the charged atmosphere.
So what will matter is what he will say under oath.

So let's say this is the accurate version. And?
He heard a little banging, and told police homicide he heard him bang his head.

That hasn't significantly changed anything.
He was still alive and banging before they got to the station.
Or do you somehow think different?


No.
You are making things up.

The other release made it clear he was making noise "up until" the van reached it's destination. Which is when the noise stopped.
So no, he would have only been on the floor from that point forward.

In other words, you made up a story and are going to change it, and the facts, as they come in but no matter what come to the conclusion that Gray is entirely at fault and the police are always right.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

I

Not sure why we should believe either the police or the other man is this case.

Actually the man has been reinterviewed and has said that the affidavit misrepresents what he said. He didn't intend on "like he was banging his head," to imply intent to bang his head, but simply the same way someone describing a car accident my say "he banged his head on the steering wheel." IE without commenting on intent. If the ride was a "rough ride" as indicated, the would hear someone being banged around during the rough ride.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

In other words, you made up a story and are going to change it, and the facts, as they come in but no matter what come to the conclusion that Gray is entirely at fault and the police are always right.

You've been here since July 2010 and don't yet realize that is Excon's (and many others on here) mode of operation?
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

You've been here since July 2010 and don't yet realize that is Excon's (and many others on here) mode of operation?

I just read this article and then I read the comments section and my jaw dropped. These stories are just a magnetic for the most filthy racism. It's like all the sudden "Dixieland" starts playing every time a black man dies at the hands of, or in the van of, a police officer. And on the other hand, the collapse of peace and order in Baltimore is causes some Pavlovian reaction in some people to start breaking windows and robbing and looting. Is this what we've become, the criminal element and the racist element? Shameful, truly shameful.

By the way, the above article quotes the man who was in the van with Freddie for 5 minutes of a 40 minutes ride and he clearly says he made no insinuations that he thought Freddie was trying to harm himself. Anybody who comes to that conclusion is doing so because they hope that it is true. I don't claim to know what happened but at least I know that I don't know and that's a lot better than what some people here are saying.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

In other words, you made up a story and are going to change it, and the facts, as they come in but no matter what come to the conclusion that Gray is entirely at fault and the police are always right.
That is a profoundly ignorant thing to say.
Do you know why people are no longer saying the arresting Officers injured him? That is becasue the information has changed.

We have been given the information. The arguments are based on that information.

Your failure to understand that is your problem.

Just like in the following.


By the way, the above article quotes the man who was in the van with Freddie for 5 minutes of a 40 minutes ride and he clearly says he made no insinuations that he thought Freddie was trying to harm himself.
Actually no. He did not clearly say. He insinuates that he didn't.
At no point in the below quote did he make any declarative statement about what he said.

“And they trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to hisself (sic),” Allen said. “Why the [expletive] would he do that to hisself (sic)?”

Whether he was being deceitful at this point remains to be seen, but the manner in which he said the above is a way of being deceitful without actually lying.
And he already stated the reason he is doing this is because of fear.

“I had two options today right, either come and talk to y’all and get my credibility straight with ya’ll and not get killed by these [expletive] or not tell a true story,” Allen added. “The only reason I’m doing this is because they put my name in a bad state.”


and he clearly says he made no insinuations that he thought Freddie was trying to harm himself. Anybody who comes to that conclusion is doing so because they hope that it is true.
And you are wrong. We have the information about what he said.
It was confirmed to be contained on an affidavit for a search warrant. That is a conclusion that was provided to us from the mouth of an ear witness.
Not becasue people "hope" it to be true.


Reality.
What we have is conflicting information.

Either the Police are lying about he said, or he is.
As his statement was taken at the very beginning prior to any uprising there doesn't appear to be any reason for either party to have lied at that point.
Does reason exist now? Yes it does.


So what is going to matter at this point is the substance of his statements that are in the hands of the Prosecutor making the decisions.
Not what that person later tells or insinuates to a reporter, especially if it is for his own safety.


I don't claim to know what happened but at least I know that I don't know and that's a lot better than what some people here are saying.
Bs. You have taken sides just as others have.
And your comment is ridiculous given that fact that we do have information that can be debated. It is even more ridiculous in light of the fact that this is a debate site, not a site to just say IDK in the face of evidence we have and can debate.





Actually the man has been reinterviewed and has said that the affidavit misrepresents what he said. He didn't intend on "like he was banging his head," to imply intent to bang his head, but simply the same way someone describing a car accident my say "he banged his head on the steering wheel." IE without commenting on intent. If the ride was a "rough ride" as indicated, the would hear someone being banged around during the rough ride.
:doh

At no point in the above interviews did he say any such thing.

And there is no indication that it was a "rough ride". That has already been dispelled by this witness even, and yet here you are continuing to peddle that bs. That is called dishonesty.



You've been here since July 2010 and don't yet realize that is Excon's (and many others on here) mode of operation?
1. Shame on you for speaking about others.
2. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. You have nothing more than an assumption which you choose to believe. That is based on your own bias.
Not reality.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

Oh, please, get over yourself, you've made such fool of yourself in this thread, it's really become pathetic. Bless your wee teensy tiny heart.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

Oh, please, get over yourself, you've made such fool of yourself in this thread, it's really become pathetic. Bless your wee teensy tiny heart.
:doh
Said the one who actually made a fool of their self and lied.

Also sad that you can not actually debate the available information.
 
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Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

That is a profoundly ignorant thing to say.
Do you know why people are no longer saying the arresting Officers injured him? That is becasue the information has changed.
We have been given the information. The arguments are based on that information.
Your failure to understand that is your problem.
Just like in the following.
Actually no. He did not clearly say. He insinuates that he didn't.
At no point in the below quote did he make any declarative statement about what he said.
“And they trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to hisself (sic),” Allen said. “Why the [expletive] would he do that to hisself (sic)?”
Whether he was being deceitful at this point remains to be seen, but the manner in which he said the above is a way of being deceitful without actually lying.
And he already stated the reason he is doing this is because of fear.
“I had two options today right, either come and talk to y’all and get my credibility straight with ya’ll and not get killed by these [expletive] or not tell a true story,” Allen added. “The only reason I’m doing this is because they put my name in a bad state.”
And you are wrong. We have the information about what he said.
It was confirmed to be contained on an affidavit for a search warrant. That is a conclusion that was provided to us from the mouth of an ear witness.
Not becasue people "hope" it to be true.
Reality.
What we have is conflicting information.
Either the Police are lying about he said, or he is.
As his statement was taken at the very beginning prior to any uprising there doesn't appear to be any reason for either party to have lied at that point.
Does reason exist now? Yes it does.

The other man in the van said that he just heard a little banging and common sense tells us that there are a number of reasons he would have heard "just a little banging." It's quite pathetic, your conclusions are the product of convoluted thinking. So pathetic, not worth addressing further. You've made a complete fool out of yourself and I will spare you further shame.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

I'm just quoting this again because you just posted a video that very explicitly contradicts the account you're proposing here. There couldn't have been "just a little banging" and at the same time constant thrashing. The evidence seems to suggest that he was on the floor of the van with his body hitting the sides when it turned, sped up or stopped. That's all it seems to suggest, not a thing about Mr. Gray trying or not trying to hurt himself. There is no decisive conclusion we can reach from the available evidence.

It's hysterical that he'll grasp onto and swear to this witness's claims, when he discredited every word from the witnesses in the Ferguson case selectively....imagining and destroying the characters and motives of the ones he didnt like especially. :lamo
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

The other man in the van said that he just heard a little banging and common sense tells us that there are a number of reasons he would have heard "just a little banging." It's quite pathetic, your conclusions are the product of convoluted thinking. So pathetic, not worth addressing further. You've made a complete fool out of yourself and I will spare you further shame.
There you go making a complete fool of yourself again with a pathetic reply.
He made it clear he said he was banging his head. He even said that was his assumption.
Secondly, you apparently do not know what is being argued and have you panties all up in a wad becasue you don't.
And apparently you are unable to look at that totality of the circumstances. That is your own failure.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

This I can agree with.

Well it looks like the DA has taken your side of the argument, filing charges against all 6 officers. But I think that is going to be a stretch to convict. As I understand it the officers did not deliberately kill Gray but did not provide assistance. This trial will be one for the history books. I would also call the DA's filling of these charges a rush to judgement.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

Well it looks like the DA has taken your side of the argument, filing charges against all 6 officers. But I think that is going to be a stretch to convict. As I understand it the officers did not deliberately kill Gray but did not provide assistance. This trial will be one for the history books. I would also call the DA's filling of these charges a rush to judgement.

I didn't see or hear the news this morning. And just to be clear, I didn't have a side to promote, just that I believed there's a duty of care onus on the police when a prisoner is in custody. That said, I don't know what the charges are at this point, but if all six are charged I have a feeling that the prosecutor is simply trying to hive off one or more of the officers, giving them a deal, in an attempt to have them as prosecution witnesses against the officer or officers who may have harmed Gray or the one who caused Gray not to be properly secured. If it goes forward as six officers charged, I'll wager they all walk.
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

I didn't see or hear the news this morning. And just to be clear, I didn't have a side to promote, just that I believed there's a duty of care onus on the police when a prisoner is in custody. That said, I don't know what the charges are at this point, but if all six are charged I have a feeling that the prosecutor is simply trying to hive off one or more of the officers, giving them a deal, in an attempt to have them as prosecution witnesses against the officer or officers who may have harmed Gray or the one who caused Gray not to be properly secured. If it goes forward as six officers charged, I'll wager they all walk.

She has thrown the proverbial book:

All six charged with murder 2 and manslaughter.

6 Baltimore officers to face murder charges in Gray case
 
Re: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport v

She has thrown the proverbial book:

All six charged with murder 2 and manslaughter.

6 Baltimore officers to face murder charges in Gray case

I just read the charges in another thread and it sounds like overkill to me - no pun intended. It's an overreach similar to Angela Cary? in the Zimmerman case in Florida, and it gives a jury an opportunity to find not-guilty on the most serious charges and perhaps convict on some of the assault charges. The charges and the announcement sound a little politically motivated to me, to appease the mob, but it's hard to say for sure.

As I said above, I think there will be an attempt to have one or two officers turn on whomever was the most "guilty" in determining what treatment Gray received during and after the arrest/transport. To charge all six with virtually the same crime implies there was a conspiracy to murder Gray, and I find it hard to believe that's what happened....
 
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