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Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

KevinKohler said:
Maybe this is a dumb question...but do police vans not have seat belts?



I was under the impression that buckling up was the law?
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Seat Belts

All drivers and front seat passengers must wear seat belts. This is a primary law, which means an officer can pull you over and ticket you for the sole reason of not wearing your seat belt.

If you have a disability that makes it unsafe or impossible to wear a seat belt, you must carry a statement from your physician in your vehicle at all times.

Maryland Safety Laws - Cell Phone, Seat Belt, Car Seat, Child Safety Laws in MD at DMV.org: The DMV Made Simple

That above only speaks to the driver and the front seat passenger. All else are not required to have a seat belt.
 
Born Free said:
Seat Belts

All drivers and front seat passengers must wear seat belts. This is a primary law, which means an officer can pull you over and ticket you for the sole reason of not wearing your seat belt.

If you have a disability that makes it unsafe or impossible to wear a seat belt, you must carry a statement from your physician in your vehicle at all times.

Maryland Safety Laws - Cell Phone, Seat Belt, Car Seat, Child Safety Laws in MD at DMV.org: The DMV Made Simple

That above only speaks to the driver and the front seat passenger. All else are not required to have a seat belt.
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I have been in the back seat of a car when it was pulled over, and given **** by cops, for not having my seatbelt on. Not in Maryland, but still. I will promise that that is likely the case iin that state, too. Cops will give thhe driver **** for not having the back seat passengers buckled up.
 
KevinKohler said:
Doesn't that just seem odd?
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It does.


KevinKohler said:
I have been in the back seat of a car when it was pulled over, and given **** by cops, for not having my seatbelt on. Not in Maryland, but still. I will promise that that is likely the case iin that state, too. Cops will give thhe driver **** for not having the back seat passengers buckled up.
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The state in which I used to live seat belts were required of back seat passengers. The state in which I now live they are required only for front seat passengers. That seems odd to me.
 
KevinKohler said:
I have been in the back seat of a car when it was pulled over, and given **** by cops, for not having my seatbelt on. Not in Maryland, but still. I will promise that that is likely the case iin that state, too. Cops will give thhe driver **** for not having the back seat passengers buckled up.
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The website I posted was the Maryland state website. I have no skin in the game on this issue and I know every state is a little different. Some states require helmets when riding a motorcycle and others do not. I would rethink that promise you made.
 
radcen said:
It does.



The state in which I used to live seat belts were required of back seat passengers. The state in which I now live they are required only for front seat passengers. That seems odd to me.
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Some state require helmets when riding a motorcycle and others don't. Nothing odd there, states see things differently.
 
bicycleman said:
You are comparing apples to oranges. You defend the rioting as a black person's right just because one of their own was unjustly arrested and injured while in custody. A lot of that has happened in the US and not just to black people, but to whites as well. Yet, for all that injustice, I never see thousands of whites rioting in the streets. Why is that? Are whites more civilized?
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You can't be serious with this here, can you?


11 Stunning Images Highlight the Double Standard of Reactions to Riots Like Baltimore - Mic


Or, as was expressed months ago, on these terms: "When, oh when, will these white sports fans stop destroying their own neighborhoods??"

While I don't condone the violence (it's counterproductive, IMO), I somehow find rioting over "injustice," (perceived or otherwise), to be far more "civilized" than rioting because, "**** it! We won/lost!"
 
Doppelgangirl said:
You can't be serious with this here, can you?


11 Stunning Images Highlight the Double Standard of Reactions to Riots Like Baltimore - Mic


Or, as was expressed months ago, on these terms: "When, oh when, will these white sports fans stop destroying their own neighborhoods??"

While I don't condone the violence (it's counterproductive, IMO), I somehow find rioting over "injustice," (perceived or otherwise), to be far more "civilized" than rioting because, "**** it! We won/lost!"
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They're rioting over the perception of injustice.

Just like they did in Ferguson. There's no excuse for it either way.
 
Fenton said:
They're rioting over the perception of injustice.

Just like they did in Ferguson. There's no excuse for it either way.
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I don't agree.

I will reserve judgment in Baltimore until the complete investigation into Gray's death is made public. Innocent until proven guilty. However, IMO it doesn't look good for the officers. There is clear evidence of a pattern of abuse on part of LEOs in Baltimore, as others have been seriously injured in their custody.

As for Ferguson, I believe Darren Wilson shooting Michael Brown was justified.

But I don't see how anyone that read the DOJ report with a shred of openmindedness or objectivity wouldn't see there was, overall, a clear pattern of abusive practices on part of LE.

Ultimately, in both locations, the "injustices" were quite real.
 
Fenton said:
You should ne apologizing here.

Involuntary manslaughter and negligence is NOT grabbing a guy and " slamming his head into the back of a Van. "

The prosecutor couldn't charge them with murder because the Police did no such thing.

These Cops are going to walk.

So you like so many jumped to conclusions and you were wrong. Now apologize
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Oh, I've no doubts that you'd like to see those cops walk, you need not point that out.
 
bicycleman said:
You are comparing apples to oranges. You defend the rioting as a black person's right just because one of their own was unjustly arrested and injured while in custody.
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Not defending anything. They should not riot, but in any society when the social injustice against a large minority is so bad and happens over such a long time, then at some point you will see a reaction. It is not just a black persons .. it is many black people over a long time that has been the target of police abuse.. everywhere.

I know fully you will excuse it by saying the black community is highly criminal and they should do something about that, but it is hard to not feel pissed off if the colour of your skin can get you stopped for no good reason and because of the justice system.. chances are you will get fined or arrested.

A lot of that has happened in the US and not just to black people, but to whites as well.
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Yes, but it is by far happing more often against black people relative to their population size and that is the main issue. It is very clear to everyone but American conservatives, that there still is a serious racial problem in society, and in government. For example, pretty much all your official statistics to this day are divided up on race.. why? Why do Americans still talk about being African-American, Indian-American, German-American.. are you not American period?

Yet, for all that injustice, I never see thousands of whites rioting in the streets. Why is that? Are whites more civilized?
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You seriously went there?

Listen, you dont seem to understand. Whites dont get stopped by the police because of the colour of their skin. That factor alone gives over time a lot of problems. Also Whites have rioted plenty of times.. just not for social injustice, because it does not exactly exist among white Americans.
 
Ikari said:
Also it seems that the other prisoner has claimed that his quotes are being taken out of context and that he didn't say Gray was trying to hurt himself.
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Stop. That is what you are inferring he said. That is not what he said.

Not once did he say it was out of context.


​

Gonzo Rodeo​;1064582604 said:
Excon​;1064582559 said:
That is odd, the only one you embarrassed was you and you are doing it to yourself again.
You clearly failed to see that I already provided a video of his interview with the reporter.

Secondly nothing he currently says really changes much of what has already been argued. The substance is still the same. There was no "rough ride/nickle ride", he was still moving when he was put into the van and his moving stopped as they arrived at their destination.
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Your OP makes the claim that the other person in the van says Gray was trying to injure himself. This has been shown to be false. There is no way to make that more clear than it already is.
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This is you again being blatantly dishonest.
Not once has it been shown to not be true. He continues to say it was a smooth ride.


Gonzo Rodeo​;1064582604 said:
Excon​;1064582559 said:
And as previously pointed out, what currently matters his is statements as already given being in the hands of the Prosecutor who is making the decisions in this case.
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And the prosecutor just announced there will be a murder charge. BOOM.
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No boom about it.

Now she has the problem of his statements he made to investigators and any differences with what he is now saying to protect his life.
That is if they are one in the same person.



jonny said:
Since we are doubting the credibility of the police, wouldnt it be fair to likewise question the credibility of a criminal who has a beef against the police?
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There was no reason before to doubt what he supposedly said. They were made during an investigation and no information exists that says they were made in exchange for any deal.
There simply was no reason to think what he said then is a lie.


Now though is a different story. He has made it clear he is speaking out for fear of his life. This, which would be absurd for anyone to deny, taints what he is now saying.
So the only credible statements he made were those made when there was no threat to his life.
 
PeteEU said:
Not defending anything. They should not riot, but in any society when the social injustice against a large minority is so bad and happens over such a long time, then at some point you will see a reaction. It is not just a black persons .. it is many black people over a long time that has been the target of police abuse.. everywhere.

I know fully you will excuse it by saying the black community is highly criminal and they should do something about that, but it is hard to not feel pissed off if the colour of your skin can get you stopped for no good reason and because of the justice system.. chances are you will get fined or arrested.



Yes, but it is by far happing more often against black people relative to their population size and that is the main issue. It is very clear to everyone but American conservatives, that there still is a serious racial problem in society, and in government. For example, pretty much all your official statistics to this day are divided up on race.. why? Why do Americans still talk about being African-American, Indian-American, German-American.. are you not American period?



You seriously went there?

Listen, you dont seem to understand. Whites dont get stopped by the police because of the colour of their skin. That factor alone gives over time a lot of problems. Also Whites have rioted plenty of times.. just not for social injustice, because it does not exactly exist among white Americans.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can see your point, but I know a lot of black people, who are highly upset by what members of their race did in Baltimore, and they were all for that lady slapping around her son when she caught him throwing rocks at the police. They all said they would have done the same. I had a mother and father just like her, and they wouldn't have put up with me rioting in the streets. It all boils down to the lack of respect for authority. People need to stay home to stay out of trouble.
 
Doppelgangirl said:
You can't be serious with this here, can you?


11 Stunning Images Highlight the Double Standard of Reactions to Riots Like Baltimore - Mic


Or, as was expressed months ago, on these terms: "When, oh when, will these white sports fans stop destroying their own neighborhoods??"

While I don't condone the violence (it's counterproductive, IMO), I somehow find rioting over "injustice," (perceived or otherwise), to be far more "civilized" than rioting because, "**** it! We won/lost!"
Click to expand...

Sure, there are some crazy white folks, but the majority don't riot in the streets and destroy public property, otherwise you would have seen them out there burning the CVS Pharmacy. Yes, there were whites marching with blacks, but not many, not like the droves of young blacks out there.
 
Fenton said:
They're rioting over the perception of injustice.

Just like they did in Ferguson. There's no excuse for it either way.
Click to expand...

I agree: There is no excuse for rioting and looting. It's a distraction from what matters, and that is justice for Freddie Gray and the police officers charged with homicide too.
 
bicycleman said:
Sure, there are some crazy white folks, but the majority don't riot in the streets and destroy public property, otherwise you would have seen them out there burning the CVS Pharmacy. Yes, there were whites marching with blacks, but not many, not like the droves of young blacks out there.
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The majority of blacks don't riot in the streets either. Just sayin'.
 
radcen said:
It does.



The state in which I used to live seat belts were required of back seat passengers. The state in which I now live they are required only for front seat passengers. That seems odd to me.
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I'll bet my bottom dollar it has everything to do with insurance laws for each state. Half of these safety laws are written by insurance adjusters.
 
nota bene said:
I agree: There is no excuse for rioting and looting. It's a distraction from what matters, and that is justice for Freddie Gray and the police officers charged with homicide too.
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Unfortunately, all of this is a distraction from the real and underlying issues that create communities like Baltimore and Ferguson.

Communities filled with people that are prone to false narratives and political narratives leads to Communities that are one allegation of Police brutality away from full on riots.

I think unemployment in Baltimore in that area is around 40 percent , with a drop put rate of nearly 50 percent.

In the case of Ferguson it was riot first, ask questions later. Thanks to the response from the White House, and all the press attention idiots like Al Sharpton received the narrative of " Systemic racial bias " and so called unchecked Police aggression has grown into a huge issue.

Obama qmd Holders response to Ferguson, to a LIE ( Hands Up Dont Shoot ) was to pass out a list to local Police departments on " How not to be a racist ".

That says it all.
 
liblady said:
The majority of blacks don't riot in the streets either. Just sayin'.
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Yes, that's quite true, and I took notice of that, but the bad ones who did spoiled it for everyone else.
 
Excon said:
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

[...]​
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was​



Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
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A few things to note here:

1- Since when have you been so interested in what potential criminals have to say ya liberal?

2- The report from the prosecutor claims that he was not buckled in and because you know he was having an asthma attack probably was gasping for air and trying to get the attention of the officers.

3- There is no step 3! There is no step 3!

 
JohnWOlin said:
A few things to note here:

1- Since when have you been so interested in what potential criminals have to say ya liberal?

2- The report from the prosecutor claims that he was not buckled in and because you know he was having an asthma attack probably was gasping for air and trying to get the attention of the officers.

3- There is no step 3! There is no step 3!

[video=youtube;6uXJlX50Lj8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uXJlX50Lj8[video]
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You have noted nothing of import.
He was not buckled in over concerns for Officer safety.
He was not having an asthma attack. He was breathing just fine and even screaming becasue his po wittle wists hurt.
 
bicycleman said:
It all boils down to the lack of respect for authority.
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This is the "problem".. respect is earned, not automatically given. Hence the respect of the police by this community and many other black communities across America is almost non existent because of the racially motivated acts against the community... deliberate or not. How can you respect anyone in authority if they abuse that authority?

Take Ferguson. Forget the death and the riots, but look at the background. Here you had a majority black community with a massive majority white police force and local government, and a municipality that gets most of its income from "fines" against its own citizens.. not from taxes, but fines for supposedly breaking the law in some way. This pattern is getting more and more popular across the US and is specifically targeting lower and middle classes who often get into a debt trap.. a simple 10 dollar fine can quickly explode to hundreds if not thousands of dollars because of the way the system is built up. John Oliver had a great expose on this a few weeks ago and from my own friends and family in the US, they all agree that this is happening.

So since the black community is historically relatively poorer overall than the white, then it is no wonder that they feel hunted and abused by the authorities and that there is zero respect for them.

Remember this thing called the American revolution and why it happened? Abuse by the ruling authority... yes it can be compared.
 
liblady said:
The majority of blacks don't riot in the streets either. Just sayin'.
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I don't think anyone believes that although it would appear that inner cities are prone to civil unrest.

Some blame the Police but I think there's more to this issue.

Poverty follows crime and the other way around so, inner city residents are going to have more confrontations with the Police and the poor excuse for Schools that inner City area kids are subjected to and the high drop out rates means inner city residents are going to be more sucseptible to narratives and empty promises from Politicians.

Police are human beings, and we're innately imperfect so there's nothing anyone can do to completely stop Police brutality completely.

The assumption of Police brutality is even more impossible to stop.

I don't think this is a fixable problem. These people keep electing Progressives who keep perpetuating the narrative that these people are victims of some nameless , faceless entity that they have no power over.

That their circumstance are no fault of their own and if of only the Government had more power to implement " equity " and " justice " their problems would be solved. " Social and Economic justice " based on arbitrary definitions that promise things that are impossible to deliver only create more poverty and mediocrity.

Progressivess raise taxes and placate the Dependant and that drives out investment and anyone else who can afford to move leaving a population whos unemoyed, impoverished and desperate.

Riots on every news channel is a deterrent for new investment and I think the Mayor of Baltimore had a initiative where she was going to convince 50 k residents to move back to Baltimore ?

Lol...good luck with that after publicly disclosing your policy of giving rioters room to " destroy ".

The worst possible thing she could do was to bring in Al Sharpton. This lets every Company and or developer know to stay the hell out of thaf area.
 
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Although id not agree with all of your points, I do agree with some of them. If, as you say, the problem isn't fixable, then why does it matter who is elected?
 
PeteEU said:
This is the "problem".. respect is earned, not automatically given. Hence the respect of the police by this community and many other black communities across America is almost non existent because of the racially motivated acts against the community... deliberate or not. How can you respect anyone in authority if they abuse that authority?

Take Ferguson. Forget the death and the riots, but look at the background. Here you had a majority black community with a massive majority white police force and local government, and a municipality that gets most of its income from "fines" against its own citizens.. not from taxes, but fines for supposedly breaking the law in some way. This pattern is getting more and more popular across the US and is specifically targeting lower and middle classes who often get into a debt trap.. a simple 10 dollar fine can quickly explode to hundreds if not thousands of dollars because of the way the system is built up. John Oliver had a great expose on this a few weeks ago and from my own friends and family in the US, they all agree that this is happening.

So since the black community is historically relatively poorer overall than the white, then it is no wonder that they feel hunted and abused by the authorities and that there is zero respect for them.

Remember this thing called the American revolution and why it happened? Abuse by the ruling authority... yes it can be compared.
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You really learn respect for authority at home from two good parents, who raise their children in the correct manner. Today, there are way too many black babies being born out of wedlock with only a single mother to raise them and no visible father. There are exceptions, though, and maybe that mother slapping her 16-year old around will turn this kid around so he won't grow up to be a juvenile delinquent. The family unit is what keeps these children on the straight and narrow, not to mention taking them to church at an early age. Another thing is that the police no longer do walking beats. It's ride around in the car and do things on the computer. I grew up in the 50's, and I remember cops walking the beat. They had call boxes on the street to call for help. Heck, they could do that now, only use Iphones and a police radio. The police need to re-connect with the people, and what better way to get to know the people than walking a beat. They'd have thinner cops for sure.
 
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