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Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

What does that mean, that you think it likely that Freddy slammed himself into the van.

You claimed he was slammed into the back of the van by Police.

What did you base that on ? Your uniformed opinion. Unfortunately allot of people came to the same conclusion.

There was a prisoner in that Van that said Freddie was alive. There is video of officers speaking to a Freddie Gray while there was a additional prisoner in the Van.

If the officers climed into the van and grabbed him and slammed him into the back of the van the additional prisoner would have noticed it.

There's barely enough room in those holding cells to stand up and move around but you think another full grown man climbed into the back of tk
he van,, shut the door, grabbed Freddie Gray and slammed him into the back door hard enough to break his neck ?
 
You claimed he was slammed into the back of the van by Police.

What did you base that on ? Your uniformed opinion. Unfortunately allot of people came to the same conclusion.

There was a prisoner in that Van that said Freddie was alive. There is video of officers speaking to a Freddie Gray while there was a additional prisoner in the Van.

If the officers climed into the van and grabbed him and slammed him into the back of the van the additional prisoner would have noticed it.

There's barely enough room in those holding cells to stand up and move around but you think another full grown man climbed into the back of tk
he van,, shut the door, grabbed Freddie Gray and slammed him into the back door hard enough to break his neck ?

Yes, I'm aware that you accept the other prisoners word as gospel. That's very nice.
 
Of course it is possible. Not to recognize that is absurd.


Truth usually does piss off a certain portion of our population.


What reason do you have to doubt what he says?

There's an unverified report that another prisoner in the van allegedly said that in his opinion Freddie Gray's was at some point trying to injure himself.

Was the report actually from police? Did the prisoner actually say that Freddie Gray was trying to injure himself? Was that an accurate assessment of the situation? And even if all of these happen to be true, it does not mean that Freddie Gray broke his own neck.

Yet you claim "truth" while accusing others of jumping to conclusions???????
 
That it's happening disproportionately to blacks isn't the issue.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't and it just gets a lot more demonstrator and media attention when it does because the social justice crusaders and race hustlers find that they have something to glom on to that will really get them some traction.

It doesn't matter WHO it is happening to.

What matters is that it could, given the right (wrong?) set of circumstances, happen to YOU (any of us) just as easily as it happened to Freddy Gray.

I'm an upper-middle-class, middle age, white guy, a veteran, with a graduate degree, couple cars, big house, vacation property, the polar opposite of Freddy Gray, and I've had a gun held to my head by a cop because he got scared at a traffic stop.

I wasn't threatening him, I wasn't mouthing off to him, I just couldn't find my registration so I moved more quickly than he would have liked in a direction he wasn't expecting and he drew down on me.

It was daytime, in broad daylight, on a road in the suburbs, I was in wool slacks, button down, tie, driving a late model car, looking like the college educated professional I am.

If he had been just a *little* more skittish he *could* have shot me.

And if he did he would have been investigated by the prosecutor he plays golf with, he would have claimed that he was "afraid for his life" and the fact that "he wanted to go home to his wife at the end of his shift" would have taken precedence over all other considerations, it's likely that the other cop at the scene would have been the first the throw up the "thin blue line" and then the union would have gotten involved and the whole department would have gathered around the coward and protected him (because God forbid the peer out their own the way we do in the military).

And that last part is where the problem lies.

There's virtually no accountability when a cop goes off the rails.

They're "investigated" by their own.

They're defended by their union.

Their "brothers" will lie, cheat, and steal in order to keep one of their own protected.

We have rules that apply to us that don't apply to them.

And the people in this country, especially the gun-owning, God-fearing conservatives who would like you to believe that they're Billy Bad Ass, are so afraid of their own Gad damned shadows that they willingly abdicate more and more of our freedom to these jackbooted agents of an oppressive state every single day.
For the most part, you're right. The vast majority of you post I agree with wholeheartedly. But, while it could indeed happen to me, if it's happening far more often to other groups then it cannot happen to me "just as easily".
 
I got tired of embarrassing you in the other thread. I'm going to do it in here now.

Freddie Gray Update: New Speculation On His Death, And Peaceful Protests : The Two-Way : NPR

He added that another detainee who was riding in the van told police that Gray was "still moving around ... kicking and making noises" until the van reached the police station.

That second detainee rode in the police van on the other side of a metal partition that divides its cargo space. When he was picked up, Gray was already in the van.

Local news WJZ-TV reports that Donta Allen, 22, was that second man – and that he came forward Thursday out of concern over how his comments were being portrayed by both the police and the media.

"When I was in the back of that van it did not stop or nothing. All it did was go straight to the station, but I heard a little banging, like he was banging his head," Allen said. " I didn't even know he was in the van until we got to the station."

Saying his words have been distorted by recent reports and that he doesn't think Gray hurt himself intentionally, Allen also told a WJZ reporter, "The only reason I'm doing this is because they put my name in a bad state."

Allen, who was reportedly taken into custody for a minor offense and was not charged with a crime, also spoke to WBAL TV. He told the station that when he got into the van, he didn't know Gray was already there. He said he heard "a little banging for like four seconds."

Since we are doubting the credibility of the police, wouldnt it be fair to likewise question the credibility of a criminal who has a beef against the police?
 
Yes, I'm aware that you accept the other prisoners word as gospel. That's very nice.

You're the one making stuff up. You're the one jumping to conclusions. You're ths one who's judging these Police Officers as guilty without any evidence to back up your rhetoric.

There's evidence of Gray being alive through 3 stops on a 4 stop trip without any video evidence of Police climbing into the back of the van, shutting the door behind them, squeezing past Gray and then slamming him into the back door.

You cannot even stand up in those vans.
 
You're the one making stuff up. You're the one jumping to conclusions. You're ths one who's judging these Police Officers as guilty without any evidence to back up your rhetoric.

There's evidence of Gray being alive through 3 stops on a 4 stop trip without any video evidence of Police climbing into the back of the van, shutting the door behind them, squeezing past Gray and then slamming him into the back door.

You cannot even stand up in those vans.

his death has just been ruled a homicide, btw.
 
his death has just been ruled a homicide, btw.

Involuntary manslaughter and derelection is NOT slamming someone's head into the back if the van

That would have been a Murder charge which the prosecutor is not seeking so nice try.

Montecristo was again, making stuff up and now we all know is was WRONG.

The cops will beat this because these are BS charges meant to appease the idiots.
 
You're the one making stuff up. You're the one jumping to conclusions. You're ths one who's judging these Police Officers as guilty without any evidence to back up your rhetoric.

There's evidence of Gray being alive through 3 stops on a 4 stop trip without any video evidence of Police climbing into the back of the van, shutting the door behind them, squeezing past Gray and then slamming him into the back door.

You cannot even stand up in those vans.

I've declared no one guilty in this case. The medical examiner has stated that the injuries were sustained when he slammed into the back of the van which has a bolt that matches a head injury. I pointed that out. I've also pointed out that the department has a documented history of abuse, and that just in the last four years they've paid out 5.7 million in lost law suits. I've also pointed to the fact that the police chief has acknowledge that officers have violated the departments code of conduct.............all you've got is another prisoners testimony, lol. :lamo
 
Involuntary manslaughter and derelection is NOT slamming someone's head into the back if the van

That would have been a Murder charge which the prosecutor is not seeking so nice try.

Montecristo was again, making stuff up and now we all know is was WRONG.

The cops will beat this because these are BS charges meant to appease the idiots.

I suppose you were referring to me though by your spelling I can't be certain. You've been proven wrong on your accusation. And your apologising for and defending filth within the BPD is itself filthy.
 
I suppose you were referring to me though by your spelling I can't be certain. You've been proven wrong on your accusation. And your apologising for and defending filth within the BPD is itself filthy.

You should ne apologizing here.

Involuntary manslaughter and negligence is NOT grabbing a guy and " slamming his head into the back of a Van. "

The prosecutor couldn't charge them with murder because the Police did no such thing.

These Cops are going to walk.

So you like so many jumped to conclusions and you were wrong. Now apologize
 
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You should ne apologizing here.

Involuntary manslaughter and negligence is NOT grabbing a guy and " slamming his head into the back of a Van. "

The prosecutor couldn't charge them with murder because the Police did no such thing.

Yes the prosecutor did. 2nd degree for one of them.

These Cops are going to walk.

Doubt that very much. They have been caught with their pants down not telling the truth (extra stops...) and a bunch of other issues.
 
Obviously, people shouldn't be killed for resisting arrest but, if police harassment of blacks actually exists on a widespread basis, then the demonstrations would be more effective when they relate to black harassment of people who haven't committed a crime. Some police departments could be racial but I find it hard to believe that the Baltimore police department is.

I couldn't agree more.

Sure, there are probably some racist cops in the Baltimore PD. Probably some white cops who don't like blacks and probably some black cops who don't like whites.

The issue of harassment isn't racial.

The reason that more blacks are harassed in Baltimore than whites is because there are more blacks having run-ins with the police in Baltimore than there are rights.

It's undeniable that there is a large and pervasive problem with police abuse in Baltimore, that much has been well documented by the Baltimore Sun.

Whether it's black cops abusing black people's rights, or white cops doing it, or black cops abusing white people's rights, or whatever, isn't the bottom line.

The bottom line is that Baltimore has a massive problem with cops violating people's rights and abusing their authority.

So the riots didn't convince me of anything other than that angry people wanted to engage in destroying their neighborhood. Are they angry about police harassment? I doubt it.

I don't.

Not for a second.

Is their anger completely misdirected, to the extent that it actually does a disservice to their concerns?

Absolutely.

Should they be directing their anger directly back at the police and the civil government, attacking cops and burning down police precincts and government buildings?

Absolutely.

The same way American patriots in 1773 should have been attacking the government that imposed the Tea Act and the agents of the state who enforced it rather than attacking a private company, looting its inventory, and destroying its capital goods.

And I think that eventually things today will get to the same place that they got to in Colonial America a couple years later when the "police" of that age, at the direction of the local government, decided they were going to play hardball with the "angry people" of the day.

We're still in the Boston phase of revolt here.

We'll get to Lexington and Concord eventually, if things don't change.
 
Apparently Allen is afraid for his life as he's now in the middle between the protestors and the police.



The Other Man In The Van With Freddie Gray Breaks His Silence « CBS Baltimore

From the article:

“The second prisoner who was picked up said that he didn’t see any harm done to Freddie at all,” Commissioner Anthony Batts said. “What he has said is that he heard Freddie thrashing about.”

But Allen wants to set something straight.

“All I did was go straight to the station, but I heard a little banging like he was banging his head,” he said.

He tells WJZ he’s angry about an internal police report published in The Washington Post.

“And they trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to himself (sic),” Allen said. “Why the [expletive] would he do that to himself (sic)?”

Is it possible that the "trashing about" sounds Donta Allen heard was Freddie Gray's body being jostled about in the back of the police van as it traveled en route to the police station? Remember: He's unbuckled, unsecured in the back of the van with limited use of his legs. Can he stand? Can he really get his footing?

Some folks believe that since Freddie Gray was able to use his left leg to support himself as he was hoisted up into the back of the van it means he had more strength in his legs than the video footage lets on. I disagree with that assessment, but since neither I nor anyone else can prove that he had full mobility of his legs at any point while in transit, all we can do is speculate as to whether or not he ever regained full usefulness of his lower limbs during transit. My assessment based on the video footage and coupled with Mr. Allen's accounting remains that Freddie Gray did not have the full use of his legs while he was in transit. And if true, it would likely explain the "thrashing about" Donta Allen heard. Furthermore, it would explain how Freddie Gray managed to bump his head on a bolt in the van and subsequently break his neck. Not from his own doing as contended, but from neglect and possibly abuse by the Baltimore PD.
 
MmThe
You should ne apologizing here.

Involuntary manslaughter and negligence is NOT grabbing a guy and " slamming his head into the back of a Van. "

The prosecutor couldn't charge them with murder because the Police did no such thing.

These Cops are going to walk.

So you like so many jumped to conclusions and you were wrong. Now apologize

2nd degree MURDER? Care to walk back some of your rhetoric?
 
Yes the prosecutor did. 2nd degree for one of them.



Doubt that very much. They have been caught with their pants down not telling the truth (extra stops...) and a bunch of other issues.


First a Prosecutor is hardly a objective resource. Her husband was part of the demonstration before anyone knew anything.

Nect, 2cnd degree murder is a non-premeditated assault that where homicide may be likely.

All the other charges are BS ( so is the second degree murder charge )

No one grabbed Freddie Gray and " threw him into the back of the van ". So where's the " assault " ?
 
MmThe

2nd degree MURDER? Care to walk back some of your rhetoric?

From a Prosecutor who's husband was involved in ths Demonstration ?

Second degree murder is a assault not premeditated that may lead to death.

Since no Police Officer climbed into the van and shut the door behind him so he could throw Freddie Gray into the back of the van, where is the " assault " ?

BS charges from a biased prosecutor and these guys will walk.
 
From a Prosecutor who's husband was involved in ths Demonstration ?

Second degree murder is a assault not premeditated that may lead to death.

Since no Police Officer climbed into the van and shut the door behind him so he could throw Freddie Gray into the back of the van, where is the " assault " ?

BS charges from a biased prosecutor and these guys will walk.

Your bias is showing, better pull it up.
 
Since we are doubting the credibility of the police, wouldnt it be fair to likewise question the credibility of a criminal who has a beef against the police?

So, a guy who can't see what's happening on the other side of the van should be used as a material witness to give credence to the story that a man severed his own spine and thereby exonerate the police...and with distorted statements he has personally refuted?

You can't possibly be serious.
 
BS charges from a biased prosecutor and these guys will walk.

Charges are frequently BS.

Sometimes guys walk.

More often they plea to something like involuntary manslaughter.

Since it seems as though evidence is still coming to light in this case (like the video of the third(?) stop the van made which came from a private surveillance system but hadn't been previously reported by the police who made that stop, in spite of the mess surrounding this incident) I think it was a good move to charge high and then see where things shake out.

There's also the fact that the prosecutor can always drop these charges and then refile other charges later on down the road.

That's probably not a crazy tactic given the civil unrest this incident has caused.

Charge with some kind of murder count now. The mob appreciates that and maybe begins to disburse. A month from now, once things have gone back to "normal", drop the murder charges and file involuntary manslaughter. You probably won't get the same kind of mob coming out to protest that, or anywhere near the rage and destruction that probably would occur, if no charges were filed now, or if they were the lightest possible charge that could reasonably fit the kind of negligence (at a minimum) that led to Gray's death.
 
that this guy was injured before he went into the van.
From what has been reported, this has already been eliminated as a possibility.


Probably one of those rough rides cops talk about
This has alreday been dispelled by what the witness his alleged to have said to the police, and by what we know he now said to reporters. He was still alive and making noise and the ride was smooth.


at least one unauthorized stop was made.
No. Nothing says the stop was unauthorized.
It is said that the stop was not reported.





There's an unverified report that another prisoner in the van allegedly said that in his opinion Freddie Gray's was at some point trying to injure himself.

Was the report actually from police? Did the prisoner actually say that Freddie Gray was trying to injure himself? Was that an accurate assessment of the situation? And even if all of these happen to be true, it does not mean that Freddie Gray broke his own neck.
The affidavit was verified, though not an official release.
The other information was Officially stated.

Now we have this added mess of the supposed witness making public comment because he is in fear for his life.
This condition did not exist when he was originally interviewed and puts what he is now saying in question.


Yet you claim "truth" while accusing others of jumping to conclusions???????
1. Your claim is to general, be more specific with details.
2.You are speaking nonsense. The arguments I have made have been based on available information. Or do you not understand that that is how this works. Not on mere speculation like others are doing?
 
It's very much akin to confession.
Lame reply. It is not a confession.
It was a statement of fact. Not a confession.
And the Officer may have had good reason for doing so.
They already stated that it was for the Officer's safety.


Man, there's a couple of you guys that are slippery like pigs on this. WHO pray tell has criticised police use of force, hmm? People are talking about and complaining about excessive use of force, you know, the kind that would violate the departments code of conduct that the police chief has indeed acknowledged within his department!
:lamo
Man, you don't even know to what you are replying.
Figures.


So I see that the medical examiner has stated the injuries were caused when the police slammed him into the van
:doh
I see you have already been corrected on this nonsense.
iLOL :lamo
The statement does not say the Police slammed him into the back of the van. :doh
It says he slammed into the back of the van. And that can be accomplished under his own volition.


It was obtained during an investigation. Not as a self serving statement.
There presently is no known reason to disbelieve what he said. That is your problem for not recognizing that.
I'm sure a jury will see it that way.
:doh
1. there is no way they would see it as a self serving statement as it was not made in exchange for a deal
2. And please note the word "presently" used above. that is an indication of that very moment in time the argument was made.
But unless new information come out saying it was in exchange for a deal/leniency/reduced charges/etc... then that would of course change.

But even currently with what he has additionally said there was no deal made.

The only thing to doubt is his current claims becasue he is in fear for his life.
And that reason did not exist before.
 
I got tired of embarrassing you in the other thread. I'm going to do it in here now.
That is odd, the only one you embarrassed was you and you are doing it to yourself again.
You clearly failed to see that I already provided a video of his interview with the reporter. :doh

Secondly nothing he currently says really changes much of what has already been argued. The substance is still the same. There was no "rough ride/nickle ride", he was still moving when he was put into the van and his moving stopped as they arrived at their destination.


While he is somewhat contradicting what the Police say he said, I am more than sure they have what he said documented.
And at the time they interviewed him there was no reason for him to lie to them.
Yet now he is in fear for his life. So that only puts his current remarks in question.


And as previously pointed out, what currently matters his is statements as already given being in the hands of the Prosecutor who is making the decisions in this case.
 
Baltimore prosecutor charges police with murder, manslaughter in death of Freddie Gray | Fox News

Well turns out they found enough evidence to issue charges

- Goodson was charged with second-degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree negligent assault, as well as other charges including failure to render aid and misconduct in office.

- Police Officer William Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

- Police Lt. Brian Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault.

- Police Officer Alicia White was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second degree assault and misconduct in office.

- Police officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller were charged with multiple counts of assault, false imprisonment and misconduct in office.

The Baltimore police officers union issued a statement before Mosby's announcement, saying the six officers are not responsible for Gray's death.

So we'll see from here, State has to prove its case. Also it seems that the other prisoner has claimed that his quotes are being taken out of context and that he didn't say Gray was trying to hurt himself.
 
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